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Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Frosty » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:39 pm

Pretty sure express buses will still run particularly in the morning peak as Anzac Parade & Allison Rd services run via the Eastern Distributor. There probably will be a few services from Randwick & Kingsford i.e. 374 & 339 that will go into the City.

In a 7News report on this issue they brought up the issue of Devonshire St and why it was chosen over Oxford St. Probably because an Oxford St wouldn't serve Central station.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Swift » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:40 pm

Aren't they largely removing buses from the route though? The only scope for meeting increased demand on the light rail routes will be more bus services which may mean a return of buses along George St because we couldn't get it right the first time, much like our locally manufactured cars. That seems to be an Anglo Saxon thing. Asians do such a better job with transport. The Chinese would have had the CSELR up and running in a matter of months.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby mandonov » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:00 pm

The EIS (years old now, but I digress) clearly states express routes are remaining. That was always the idea, however flawed we may think that is.

For reference:
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby rogf24 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:33 am

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-20/s ... y/10139556

Government wants the contractor to finish it by December 2019.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Ikarbus » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:59 pm

Anzac/Alison Intersection will be switched to it's next configuration this Friday. Southbound traffic will be pushed onto the new track.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby hornetfig » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:25 pm

Curiously they never managed to put out a notification about this, but the previous switch they put out three (seeing as it was delayed twice...)
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Ikarbus » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:05 pm

The tram made it's first daytime run today. On board were the NSW Premier, Minister for Transport, Secretary and other VIPs. The tram was boarded at the future Royal Randwick stop, and travelled to Lang Rd, where passengers disembarked to address a pre-organised media event. Unit 007 led with unit 001 trailing.

Nice to see it out in the day time!
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Swift » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:12 pm

Ikarbus wrote:
Nice to see it out in the day time!

Among all that ugly war zone construction. This may backfire worse than the Wagga bi election.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby mandonov » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:16 pm

https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/news-a ... n-randwick

Sydney Light Rail daytime run in Randwick
11 Sep 2018

The CBD and South East Light Rail project has reached a significant milestone, with daytime testing of the Light Rail Vehicles beginning in Randwick.

As part of the first daytime test, Premier Gladys Berejiklian and Minister for Transport and Infrastructure Andrew Constance boarded a Light Rail Vehicle and travelled from Randwick to Moore Park.

“This is an exciting day for Sydney with Light Rail Vehicle testing now underway during the day along Anzac Parade,” Ms Berejiklian said.

“This is a significant milestone and it shows the project is progressing.

“Not only is testing of the Light Rail Vehicles underway, but the track is nearing completion with less than a kilometre left to be laid.”

The first daytime test run took place in the first energised section of the 12-kilometre light rail route between the Royal Randwick Stop on Alison Road, and Lang Road, Moore Park.

Mr Constance said systems testing and commissioning, which includes dynamic vehicle testing, will continue as civil construction nears completion.

“This milestone should remind Sydney that the days of getting a Light Rail Vehicle to Moore Park, the Racecourse or the hospital are just around the corner,” Mr Constance said.

“As civil construction nears completion, more areas along the alignment will be energised, enabling testing to expand.”

Sydneysiders are reminded to be aware of the Light Rail Vehicles while they are testing and lookout for traffic and road changes as the new transport system rolls out.

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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby quaidy » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:33 pm

Swift wrote:
Ikarbus wrote:
Nice to see it out in the day time!

Among all that ugly war zone construction. This may backfire worse than the Wagga bi election.


God help us if we go back to another 10 years of do nothing Labor.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Tonymercury » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:42 pm

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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby hornetfig » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:08 pm

Ikarbus wrote:The tram made it's first daytime run today.


Doesn't look like ordinary daytime testing will be happening any time soon though? Still a of construction work pending lineside from Darley Rd right around to Lang Rd.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Swift » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:03 pm

Tonymercury wrote:Some traffic light priority?

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/syd ... e=rss_feed

Wouldn't have anything to do with the publicity over horrendous cost overruns and delays? A way to minimise outrage at the long running time after all the cost and inconvenience?
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby mandonov » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:28 pm

Swift wrote:Wouldn't have anything to do with the publicity over horrendous cost overruns and delays? A way to minimise outrage at the long running time after all the cost and inconvenience?

Or RMS has seen the light that the car isn't the be all and end all....

Your theory is more plausible.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby boronia » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:26 pm

The Sydney Classic and Antique Truck (and Bus) Show
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@ The Museum of Fire.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby moa999 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:44 am

No photo but Royal Randwick is starting to look like a proper stop.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Tonymercury » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:22 am



So what?

I note no mention of furthering development in that report.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Swift » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:46 am

mandonov wrote:
Swift wrote:Wouldn't have anything to do with the publicity over horrendous cost overruns and delays? A way to minimise outrage at the long running time after all the cost and inconvenience?

Or RMS has seen the light that the car isn't the be all and end all....

Your theory is more plausible.

All's well that end well eh? In NSW at least.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby grog » Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:11 am

The mentioned travel times were still 34 minutes for the Randwick branch and 38 for Kingsford - not particularly quick I would think?

On the early BCR, the NWRL had a BCR of 0.9, and if this was really 0.8 it just goes to show that in the early days of any new government we will come to expect that there are a few projects which don't stack up economically due to the need to implement promises made in opposition. The alternative is that governments get into power and say "whoops, didn't realise that this project didn't stack up, I guess we won't build it" - you can imagine how that will go down with the electorate.

I expect we will see the same with the next Labor government, and might have to just live with a few bad early decisions so that they can say they kept their promises. This highlights the importance of oppositions having good advice. It also highlights the importance of long term transport masterplanning and the generation of a pipeline of projects which stack up economically - it becomes a menu from which an opposition can select promises with some level of assurance that they are likely to stack up, given the pre-analysis that goes into the master plan.

That said, I actually agree with the inclusion of benefits from pedestrian improvements in the BCR given that 90% of trips made in the CBD are made on foot. I also had to laugh at the quote from the economics professor who called Wider Economic Benefits a 19th century concept - the measurement of WEBs is being increasingly included and getting more and more accurate, in fact federal guidelines are out in draft which will allow them to be included in the main BCR analysis.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby tonyp » Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:47 am

Gold Coast Light Rail has traffic light priority and a trip on its original section takes 33 minutes over a length more than 3 km longer than either of the CSELR sectors (to Kingsford or to Randwick). An end to end journey on CSELR either sector should take less than 25 minutes based on precedents elsewhere, here and overseas. I don't know why they're still mentioning those slow times as also being with light priority and it's concerning.

There us a bit more to these decisions than BCR. The bus system doesn't have the capacity and a metro option doesn't gave the coverage (station spread and density) and thus still requires a bus system to support it.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby mandonov » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:16 pm

You also have to take into account the reduced speed the trams will be going at along the pedestrianised section of George Street. 20km/h I believe?
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby tonyp » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:31 pm

20 km/h is not a significant issue, it's the dwell time and intersection priority that's significant. The former trams covered the run in 15 minutes with 12 stops (twice as many) and wouldn't have exceeded 20 km/h along George St.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Frosty » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:34 pm

It being Sydney factoring in long dwell times even with the high density doors. I.e. 2 mins at Central just like trains and 2 mins for a driver changeover at the depot in Randwick. Even with traffic light priority wouldn't trams have to slow down through intersections for safety reasons.

Does anybody know if there will be a physical sort of divider between trams & general traffic along Anzac Parade personally it appears the general traffic lanes will be very narrow once complete.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby tonyp » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:56 pm

There is absolutely no reason for long dwells with that number of doors. Heck I've been watching the Perth trains for the past week doing 15 second dwells with only two doors per car! I would expect CSELR dwells to be in the range 10 to 20 seconds depending on the crowd. Don't forget everybody inside will be right next to a door with the highest provision of doors per length on a Sydney public transport vehicle since the P class trams. Their dwells averaged 8 seconds.

There's no need to slow down at an intersection if they have the light. I would be hoping that they have at least berms to protect the line where it shares the road surface with other traffic.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby gascoyne » Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:41 am

The modelling report by GTA dated August 2016 obtained under GIPA a few weeks ago could provide an explanation for the priority announcement. The modelling showed that without traffic signal priority some trams which got lucky with green lights could start to catch up with the less-lucky tram in front. This would be disastrous for a system that is likely to be chronically overloaded from its first week. Presumably road authorities reluctantly conceded some priority but probably limited it to minor intersections. Don't expect to see tram priority at Alison/Anzac for instance - Sydney's not ready for that. Why else do IWLR trams have to wait for green at Hay/Darling?
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