S Set Retirement

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
Linto63
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Re: S Set Retirement

Post by Linto63 »

The order in which S sets will be withdrawn will be governed by their maintenance regimes. The first to go will likely be those with the fewest miles until heavy maintenance is required. Some may briefly be held as strategic spares, but only until the NIFs begin entering service.
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Re: S Set Retirement

Post by MotorOmnibus8562 »

Some say they’ll be withdrawn completely, others reckon they’ll hang around for emergency purposes, either way, they’ll be off the tracks when the B sets come into service
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Jurassic_Joke
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Re: S Set Retirement

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

Let’s just wait and see people. I’m sorry, but I’m taking Gladys’ word with a grain of salt because the last time she spoke to us about S sets in 2014 saying oh yeah all the Waratahs are here, the Sydney trains fleet is 100% airconditioned, the truth couldn’t have been any further.

I’ll believe it when I see it :)
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Re: S Set Retirement

Post by andy_centralcoast »

Jurassic_Joke wrote:Let’s just wait and see people. I’m sorry, but I’m taking Gladys’ word with a grain of salt because the last time she spoke to us about S sets in 2014 saying oh yeah all the Waratahs are here, the Sydney trains fleet is 100% airconditioned, the truth couldn’t have been any further.

I’ll believe it when I see it :)
Surprisingly the media release from 2014 is still online where Gladys said 100% of timetabled services are now fully air-conditioned.
https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/newsro ... y-services

(once you scroll past the several paragraphs explaining the "verge of collapse" and "complete mess" that the Labor party left us in and how the Liberals "rescued" the Waratah project "from disaster").
Linto63
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Re: S Set Retirement

Post by Linto63 »

The 100% air-conditioned figure was on the assumption of 100% fleet availability which obviously was never going to be the case. But we can never let the truth get in the way of a feel good ministerial press release.
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Re: S Set Retirement

Post by Aurora »

Linto63 wrote:The 100% air-conditioned figure was on the assumption of 100% fleet availability which obviously was never going to be the case. But we can never let the truth get in the way of a feel good ministerial press release.
Timetables do not consider 100% fleet reliability. There are some numbers of each fleet type reserved for maintenance.

S Sets are the last line of defence, so to speak. Would you rather an S Set or no service (cancellation). People who don't like the extra services able to be provided by retaining the S Sets can always wait for the following service.
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Re: S Set Retirement

Post by MotorOmnibus8562 »

Aurora wrote: S Sets are the last line of defence, so to speak. Would you rather an S Set or no service (cancellation). People who don't like the extra services able to be provided by retaining the S Sets can always wait for the following service.
If I recall correctly, The S sets were used for standbys in the previous timetable started so they only ever ran when a train was being serviced, S sets are the only option if one train is being serviced in the current timetable, Whereas in the previous timetable if a train was being serviced, an S set would run only sometimes.
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boronia
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Re: S Set Retirement

Post by boronia »

The allowance for maintenance should be above the timetable requirements. If you need, say, 50 sets to run a t/t, then you should have perhaps 55 sets on hand. The Waratah contract works this way.

That statement might have been true at the time it was released in 2014, but the timetable is much different now.
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Linto63
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Re: S Set Retirement

Post by Linto63 »

The statement was false at the time it was made. To operate the timetable all 78 Waratahs would have needed to be available which obviously was never going to happen, hence S sets remained in service, albeit in fewer numbers than today.
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Re: S Set Retirement

Post by Fleet Lists »

boronia wrote:The allowance for maintenance should be above the timetable requirements. If you need, say, 50 sets to run a t/t, then you should have perhaps 55 sets on hand. The Waratah contract works this way.

That statement might have been true at the time it was released in 2014, but the timetable is much different now.
That is where the growth trains argument comes in - the B sets will cover that growth between timetables and at the same time allow the S sets to be released.
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swtt
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Re: S Set Retirement

Post by swtt »

If you asked me between whether I would like S sets but a 15 min all day service, vs an all air conditioned fleet but only 30 min service during the off peaks, I'll take the former thanks.
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Re: S Set Retirement

Post by stupid_girl »

Linto63 wrote:The statement was false at the time it was made. To operate the timetable all 78 Waratahs would have needed to be available which obviously was never going to happen, hence S sets remained in service, albeit in fewer numbers than today.
Don't we just need 72 A sets available to Sydney Trains for timetabled services each day?
http://www.reliancerail.com.au/Page/War ... oject.aspx
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Re: S Set Retirement

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That was before the 2017 timetable changes - more required since then.
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swtt
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Re: S Set Retirement

Post by swtt »

stupid_girl wrote:
Linto63 wrote:The statement was false at the time it was made. To operate the timetable all 78 Waratahs would have needed to be available which obviously was never going to happen, hence S sets remained in service, albeit in fewer numbers than today.
Don't we just need 72 A sets available to Sydney Trains for timetabled services each day?
http://www.reliancerail.com.au/Page/War ... oject.aspx
There'd naturally be a variation of the contract which the government and RelianceRail would agree to.
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boronia
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Re: S Set Retirement

Post by boronia »

stupid_girl wrote:
Linto63 wrote:The statement was false at the time it was made. To operate the timetable all 78 Waratahs would have needed to be available which obviously was never going to happen, hence S sets remained in service, albeit in fewer numbers than today.
Don't we just need 72 A sets available to Sydney Trains for timetabled services each day?
http://www.reliancerail.com.au/Page/War ... oject.aspx
I go past AMF a few times per week, and there would be around 5 or 6 sets in the shed or outside each day, which ties in with those figures.
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Scott4570
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Re: S Set Retirement

Post by Scott4570 »

As at May 21, 2018, Current Fleet and Timetable requirements for each Set Type:-

Set............Number..........Sets required......Availability
Type..........in Fleet..........for Timetable...........%

8A sets -------- 77 ------------------ 71 ------------------ 92 (one A set Roster replaced by 8T set, due to set A42 having an accident at Richmond, January 2018)
4M sets -------- 35 ------------------ 30 ------------------ 85
4T sets --------111 ------------------ 90 ------------------ 81 (one 8T set is used on a 8A set Roster, due to accident with set A42)
4C sets -------- 14 ------------------ 12 ------------------- 85
4K sets -------- 40 ------------------ 34 ------------------- 85
4S sets -------- 48 ------------------ 36 ------------------- 75
idontknow556
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Re: S Set Retirement

Post by idontknow556 »

Is D4002 on S123 the oldest S set driving trailer in service? I haven't seen a driving trailer with a number lower than this.
Linto63
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Re: S Set Retirement

Post by Linto63 »

No, at some point in the late 80s or early 90s, the 10 newest driving trailers still with working driving cabs (many had been disabled by this stage) were renumbered D4001-10. So D4002 was probably originally D408x or D409x. I recall reading somewhere the oldest operational carriage is one of the T49xx trailers. The oldest surviving driving trailer would be the first after D4011.
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Re: S Set Retirement

Post by idontknow556 »

I just looked at the Fleet Lists and I noticed that 4013 is the oldest driving trailer which is on S102. However when I caught S102 a few days ago I did not see 4013 on it so has it been scrapped? The Fleetlists mentioned that 4941 and 4013 are possibly scrapped.

Also the oldest trailer carriage is T4922 on S103.
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Re: S Set Retirement

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Which fleet lists were you looking at? URL please.
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idontknow556
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Re: S Set Retirement

Post by idontknow556 »

I am looking at Track Record Fleet Lists.

Here's the URL: http://trackrecordfl.wixsite.com/trackrecordfl
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boronia
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Re: S Set Retirement

Post by boronia »

That list appears to be around 2 years old.
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idontknow556
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Re: S Set Retirement

Post by idontknow556 »

Does anyone know whether there is an updated version of Sydney Trains fleet lists/Track Record fleet lists? Thanks.
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Re: S Set Retirement

Post by Fleet Lists »

That is a fairly vague question. There have been a number of these over the years so I am not sure which one you are referring to. The most recent one I used to use has disappeared - it was maintained by a contributor to this board but dont remember his name and the lists have gone for a while now.
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Re: S Set Retirement

Post by idontknow556 »

I've just heard a rumor on Youtube that S sets will be scrapped mid August which means that the first S set should be scrapped very soon if not scrapped already.
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