Will trolleybuses return?

Adelaide / South Australia Transport Discussion
User avatar
The Inspector
Posts: 8031
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2004 11:35 pm
Favourite Vehicle: PMCSA Volvo B59
Location: Sydney

Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Post by The Inspector »

Skexis wrote:Trolley buses are not much use as they can't go anywhere that isn't wired.

Yes they can as they store power in batteries, the Auckland ones are capable of this but the distance is not that great.
Has AdMet CB80 fever
User avatar
The Inspector
Posts: 8031
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2004 11:35 pm
Favourite Vehicle: PMCSA Volvo B59
Location: Sydney

Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Post by The Inspector »

Heardy_101 wrote:I always thought about Trolley Buses on the O-Bahn. But the question with that is can a Trolley bus get to the same speeds on the O-Bahn.

Yes trolley buses can reach the same speed as a diesel or gas bus
Has AdMet CB80 fever
User avatar
The Inspector
Posts: 8031
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2004 11:35 pm
Favourite Vehicle: PMCSA Volvo B59
Location: Sydney

Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Post by The Inspector »

Heardy_101 wrote:Because if you're going to go to that length then may as well have a tram instead.

As much as it pains me to say this because I love the tangle of the overhead wires, but with modern technology we are steadily moving away from a need to have overhead. Sydney's new tram extension is an example of that.
Only in the city, the rest of the new extension has overhead
Has AdMet CB80 fever
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Post by tonyp »

The Inspector wrote:
Skexis wrote:Trolley buses are not much use as they can't go anywhere that isn't wired.

Yes they can as they store power in batteries, the Auckland ones are capable of this but the distance is not that great.
Actually this is changing rapidly and they can move quite significant lengths off-wire. For example, there is a trial route in Prague where the buses are only running about 10% of the route on wire. These are basically dynamically-charged electric buses that recharge on the move on short sections of wire plus a section of overhead at the terminus and overnight charging.

I believe the O Bahn was built with stanchion bases for trolleybuses.
Myrtone
Posts: 351
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:29 am

Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Post by Myrtone »

The Inspector wrote:Yes they can as they store power in batteries, the Auckland ones are capable of this but the distance is not that great.
But they can charge while on the move, while a diesel or gas bus can go further on each tank but only be refueled while stationary and only in depots.
The Inspector wrote: Only in the city, the rest of the new extension has overhead
Even in the city, it is still electrified, with ground level power supply. This is a type of ground level power supply that only works for trams, not for buses.
Last edited by Myrtone on Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Post by tonyp »

Here is an example of trolleybus flexibility currently in Pilsen where roadworks have interrupted the normal route and the trolleybus is taking a deviation off-wire:

Image
Myrtone
Posts: 351
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:29 am

Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Post by Myrtone »

Check out the Save Wellington trolleybus group. They note that no bus can be more electric than a trolleybus and that Wellington is converting trolleybuses to battery buses to achieve what an overhead electric system already achieved.
User avatar
1whoknows
Posts: 3983
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:55 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Post by 1whoknows »

And Wellington no longer has trolleybuses but is buying new fully electric buses - so that worked well didn't it?
"Inside Every Progressive Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out"
David Horowitz.
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Post by tonyp »

1whoknows wrote:And Wellington no longer has trolleybuses but is buying new fully electric buses - so that worked well didn't it?
Trolleybuses ARE fully electric buses! Furthermore they drew their power in Wellington mainly from renewable geothermal energy, not from the environmentally detrimental process of manufacturing and ultimate disposal of batteries. Wellington is simply an cynical exercise in political and industry dishonesty.
Myrtone
Posts: 351
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:29 am

Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Post by Myrtone »

Imagine if we removed overhead wires from our tramway network and converted our tram fleet to battery power just to achieve what that overhead electric system already did.
User avatar
boronia
Posts: 21566
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:18 am
Favourite Vehicle: Ahrens Fox; GMC PD4107
Location: Sydney NSW

Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Post by boronia »

That small group of people who are offended by the sight of a length of wire up in the air would be elated.
Preserving fire service history
@ The Museum of Fire.
Myrtone
Posts: 351
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:29 am

Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Post by Myrtone »

Don't come to my city if you are offended by that.
flaneur
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:02 pm

Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Post by flaneur »

bus companies in Europe / US charge the batteries of their electric buses at terminals.
look up linkkerbus.com
As for electricity supply the same can apply at terminus with solar and battery backup, its only penny pinching and a dose of conservatism by the former State Government why the Seaford Line has no independent solar - battery supply and lack of foresight why the trains had no battery backup during a power outage which would have prevented passengers being off loaded along the railway corridor
moa999
Posts: 2923
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:12 pm

Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Post by moa999 »

An interesting update on Wellington trolleybus.

They've now got one trial bus fully converted to battery.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/103869 ... c-vehicles
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Post by tonyp »

moa999 wrote:An interesting update on Wellington trolleybus.

They've now got one trial bus fully converted to battery.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/103869 ... c-vehicles
"Fully-electric vehicles". What weasel words - they were already fully-electric vehicles ffs! Well, this was predictable.
Myrtone
Posts: 351
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:29 am

Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Post by Myrtone »

I wonder if anyone sees anything American about the idea that battery buses are the future. Think of Silicon Valley. Also, consider how much talk about battery electric vehicles and miracle batteries is coming out of the radical and freedom conscious U.S.A. Furthermore, straight electric traction has always been more common in Europe that it currently is in the 'States. A lot more tram and trolleybus systems survive in Europe than in, well, the same country that gave the world the personal computer and the internet. If any of you understand what I am trying to say.
Skexis
Posts: 848
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:11 am

Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Post by Skexis »

Interesting article that might be worth a read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_M ... conspiracy
Myrtone
Posts: 351
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:29 am

Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Post by Myrtone »

That doesn't seem to have anything to do with trolleybuses.
Myrtone
Posts: 351
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:29 am

Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Post by Myrtone »

Okay, there hasn't been any activity for a while. The fact is that Adelaide's tramway network has overhead wires throughout and has recently been expanded, presumably with more lines projected, all electrified throughout. But yet there are no plans for the return of trolleybuses, is this seen by others here as a double standard?
marc506
Posts: 664
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 9:45 pm
Location: Adelaide

Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Post by marc506 »

Myrtone wrote:Okay, there hasn't been any activity for a while. The fact is that Adelaide's tramway network has overhead wires throughout and has recently been expanded, presumably with more lines projected, all electrified throughout. But yet there are no plans for the return of trolleybuses, is this seen by others here as a double standard?
nope.

trolley buses just aren't needed and won't bring anything extra to the city's transit requirements to justify the time and expensive to bring back trolley buses.
Myrtone
Posts: 351
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:29 am

Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Post by Myrtone »

It would just be a case of putting overhead wires along current bus routes and running trolleybuses along them instead of diesel or C.N.G buses. If trolleybuses aren't needed, are overhead wires needed on new tram extension as opposed to new trams using battery power on these new extensions.

Here are photos of the old Adelaide trolleybuses so all here know what trolleybuses and trolleybus wiring look like:
ImageImageImage
User avatar
boronia
Posts: 21566
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:18 am
Favourite Vehicle: Ahrens Fox; GMC PD4107
Location: Sydney NSW

Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Post by boronia »

Maybe this will solve the battery problem for buses? TonyP would approve of this one:

https://www.busnews.com.au/industry-new ... newsletter

Then put trolley poles on the trailer to recharge the batteries.
Preserving fire service history
@ The Museum of Fire.
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Post by tonyp »

boronia wrote:Maybe this will solve the battery problem for buses? TonyP would approve of this one:

https://www.busnews.com.au/industry-new ... newsletter

Then put trolley poles on the trailer to recharge the batteries.
Yes I saw that. Somehow I can't see that getting off the ground. Here's a stylised representation of in-motion charging which is the way the technology is heading:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OMdhZs5mok

That will get rid of all the messy junction and crossover wiring and leave just relatively short runs of straight wiring for recharging without downtime lost in stopping for recharge. The bus in this image has a trailer already of course and it's put to use carrying passengers!
Myrtone
Posts: 351
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:29 am

Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Post by Myrtone »

As long as wires are cheaper to install than rails, then maybe use overhead power by default as is common in cities that still have trolleybuses.
Post Reply

Return to “Discussion - Adelaide / SA”