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NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby Scott4570 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:21 pm

Frosty wrote:It would be very difficult to have more than 4tph on the Airport Line when terminating at Central P23 with the crossover in the tunnel & when travelling along platform 23 the train is going at walking pace. The only way I can think of increasing trains is having a 3 min dwell time at Central p23.

Under that scenario, you may be able to accommodate 6 trains per hour on Platform 23.
However, how would you Timetable that and also explain the changes in frequency etc to the travelling Public ?

The Train Planners usually try to avoid a lot of Timetable changes and try to keep changes contained within a certain boundary.
Hopefully, this causes only minimal inconvenience to the travelling Public.
As a result, this Weekend, Feb 3 & 4, services between Turrella and Revesby, and services between Revesby and Macarthur, have not been effected by the City Circle closure.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby Scott4570 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:31 pm

boronia wrote:I wonder what the track occupation requirements are for the City Circle?

Would it be possible for Airport trains to arrive on 20/21, then with a relay driver in the rear, reverse on the crossover down towards Goulburn St, back up to 23?

Yes, the movement described here is possible under normal arrangements, with Relay Crew.
Of course, it would not be done at Peak times due to the frequency of service, but could be done if there was an emergency or disruption to the service.

Sometimes, when the City Outer Line is closed for Trackwork, they allow this movement for the purposes of maintaining a Down Airport Line Service.
It depends on where the Track Possession parameters or boundaries have been set. Usually, the boundary is referenced by a Signal or point number.
The movement is allowable if clear of any Track Possession boundary.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby Campbelltown busboy » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:50 am

I just saw a 6 car V set consisting of 4 DJM power cars and 2 DIT trailer cars at Glenfield have they got the ATP Y sets back on doing ATP System testing
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby gascoyne » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:45 pm

re the New Intercity Fleet, have we been told whether any of the V-sets could be retained for use in the upper Blue Mountains? The locals reckon that extreme winter cold can only be handled with vestibule cars like the V cars. Oh, and of course they prefer seats to be reversible.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby boronia » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:12 pm

Campbelltown busboy wrote:I just saw a 6 car V set consisting of 4 DJM power cars and 2 DIT trailer cars at Glenfield have they got the ATP Y sets back on doing ATP System testing

One of the Y sets was reported recently as being just two DJMs back to back, and the other being a 4 car consist.

Perhaps the Richmond incident has revived interest in getting ATP back in the public (or press) arena.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby Campbelltown busboy » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:38 pm

I did spot a 4 car Y set going though platform 1 at Campbelltown around midday so that must have been the same one I saw heading south though Glenfield at 11:35 this morning
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby Linto63 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:48 pm

Campbelltown busboy wrote:I just saw a 6 car V set consisting of 4 DJM power cars and 2 DIT trailer cars at Glenfield have they got the ATP Y sets back on doing ATP System testing
The Y set of 4 cars was in its usual spot at the western end of Flemington depot at about 10:30 with an S set on top of it with the 2 spare powercars separately stabled, so would have probably been a bit tight if you saw it only 80 minutes later.

gascoyne wrote:re the New Intercity Fleet, have we been told whether any of the V-sets could be retained for use in the upper Blue Mountains? The locals reckon that extreme winter cold can only be handled with vestibule cars like the V cars. Oh, and of course they prefer seats to be reversible.
Doubt it, the V sets are being replaced because they are or shortly will be life expired. If the new trains don't have vestibules, then presumably the doors will close after a certain period of no foot traffic to keep in the heat / cool.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby boronia » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:37 pm

gascoyne wrote:re the New Intercity Fleet, have we been told whether any of the V-sets could be retained for use in the upper Blue Mountains? The locals reckon that extreme winter cold can only be handled with vestibule cars like the V cars. Oh, and of course they prefer seats to be reversible.

How far "upper"? I can't imagine that you would expect passengers to change trains half way up the hill.

And of course TfNSW will tell us they have surveyed passengers and found a definite preference for fixed seating :roll: :roll:
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby Linto63 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:30 pm

Noticed a Leppington bound Millenium set at Central about 18:30 with an A4 paper in the front window sign stating 'Last Millenium train from Eveleigh 9/2/18' or words to that effect. So are these moving to Auburn?
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby mandonov » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:20 pm

Either Auburn or Mortdale.

The works to expand Mortdale for the Growth Trains is ongoing, but they've since announced that the Growth Trains will be based at Auburn so I'm not sure what space constraints may exist there when trains start to be delivered.

My question is, what will happen to Flemington in the mid-2020's when all the silver sets, and all the V sets are retired? Could it become the base for a T Set replacement?
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby Linto63 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:37 pm

Even though the new Intercitys will be based at Kangy Angy, there will still be a requirement to lay up many during the day in Sydney. So expect Flemington will remain, just not as a heavy maintenance centre.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby mandonov » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:52 am

True, which is why Eveleigh is being upgraded as we speak, hence the need for Millennium's to vacate.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby andy_centralcoast » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:01 am

Observing some strange trackwork alterations on the T1 Northern Line today.

All the Hornsby trains are running via Strathfield to an altered timetable that includes an 11 minute dwell stop at Epping. Can't be fun for people travelling from the city to the stations between Epping and Hornsby/Berowra.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby Frosty » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:13 am

Looking at the timetable it’s to allow the express CCN trains past some of the all stops trains to Hornsby/Berowra. Though the all stops Berwora train is being labelled as a CCN train in the real-time apps.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby andy_centralcoast » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:27 am

Frosty wrote:Looking at the timetable it’s to allow the express CCN trains past some of the all stops trains to Hornsby/Berowra. Though the all stops Berwora train is being labelled as a CCN train in the real-time apps.

It does seem like that, except I'm not sure why the T1 train needs to wait for another 7 more minutes after the CCN train departs Epping before following.

I wonder why they can't use the ETTT this weekend. Maybe freight gets priority since it was built for the NSFC project? It was used during the Hornsby Junction trackwork period by CCN trains to overtake these same T1 trains that extended to Hornsby from Epping via Strathfield runs.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby Aurora » Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:11 pm

andy_centralcoast wrote:
Frosty wrote:Looking at the timetable it’s to allow the express CCN trains past some of the all stops trains to Hornsby/Berowra. Though the all stops Berwora train is being labelled as a CCN train in the real-time apps.

It does seem like that, except I'm not sure why the T1 train needs to wait for another 7 more minutes after the CCN train departs Epping before following.

I wonder why they can't use the ETTT this weekend. Maybe freight gets priority since it was built for the NSFC project? It was used during the Hornsby Junction trackwork period by CCN trains to overtake these same T1 trains that extended to Hornsby from Epping via Strathfield runs.

The trains are being kept on their regular paths between Strathfield-Epping, Epping-Hornsby and Hornsby-Berowra.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby Special_K » Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:19 pm

During this weekend's trackwork, Up T1 trains ex Hornsby via Eastwood are crossing from the Up Suburban to the Up Local before Redfern, the using the Flying Junctions to either Platform 20 or 21 before proceeding via the City Circle Inner line and forming the down Hornsby via Eastwood service departing from Central 19 platform, Redfern 6 platform before crossing back to the Down Suburban at Illawarra Junction. An interesting operating pattern!
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby Stonesourscotty » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:32 pm

Terrible to see 4 car workings on Kiamas today with the game out at Wollongong it left a bad taste in a few Steelers Wigan and Hull fans mouths and spoiled a fantastic time in the Illawarra
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby tonyp » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:21 am

Stonesourscotty wrote:Terrible to see 4 car workings on Kiamas today with the game out at Wollongong it left a bad taste in a few Steelers Wigan and Hull fans mouths and spoiled a fantastic time in the Illawarra

It's from the TfNSW transportation practice rule book:

"27(a)(xiv) The amount of capacity provided shall be inversely proportional to the size of the special event crowd."

That's close to rule 27 (a)(xv): "In event of bustitution, each 8 carriage train shall be replaced by one 12 metre single-door, high-floor bus."
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby burrumbus » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:13 am

Or rule 380(a)(xi).The amount of capacity provided on the busiest bus route shall be provided by the smallest capacity bus available.
and 308(b)ix) The amount of capacity provided on the quietest bus route shall be provided by the largest capacity bus available.
The rule book is shared by TFNSW and STA.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby andy_centralcoast » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:12 am

andy_centralcoast wrote:All the Hornsby trains are running via Strathfield to an altered timetable that includes an 11 minute dwell stop at Epping. Can't be fun for people travelling from the city to the stations between Epping and Hornsby/Berowra.
Frosty wrote:Looking at the timetable it’s to allow the express CCN trains past some of the all stops trains to Hornsby/Berowra. Though the all stops Berwora train is being labelled as a CCN train in the real-time apps.

I wonder why they can't use the ETTT this weekend. Maybe freight gets priority since it was built for the NSFC project? It was used during the Hornsby Junction trackwork period by CCN trains to overtake these same T1 trains that extended to Hornsby from Epping via Strathfield runs.

Aurora wrote:The trains are being kept on their regular paths between Strathfield-Epping, Epping-Hornsby and Hornsby-Berowra.

Is that just lazy timetabling this weekend considering they ran Hornsby via Strathfield during previous trackwork without the 11 minute delay at Epping for Cheltenham-Hornsby customers?

I can see the logic: waiting at Epping for 11 minutes keeps the Epping-Hornsby trains to their timetabled stops. I guess in case people have a paper timetable or memorised their local station departure times? But with a train running every 15 minutes, shifting everything 11 minutes earlier would just appear like a 4 minute delay from normal timetable at any of those stations (which is what happened during the January trackwork), without the annoying wait at Epping for through customers.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby Scott4570 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:51 pm

In reference to the January 2018 trackwork for Hornsby Yard, trains between Epping and Hornsby / Berowra, were only running at Peak times, with Intercity services running Peak direction only. Freight trains are not normally tabled at Peak times, or are worked clear.
Therefore, during this period, Down Intercity Services were able to use the 3rd track (Epping to Thornleigh) so as to pass the Local service.

At Weekends, without the impact of the Peak curfew, Down Freights can run at a more regular frequency and use the 3rd track (Epping to Thornleigh) to allow for the passage of the Passenger trains.

For this Weekend's alterations, Feb 10 & 11, with the suggestion, by andy_centralcoast, to absorb the 11 minute delay and run the Local service on a path 4 minutes later than the normal table, would mean that the services departing Epping at 22 and 52 minutes past the hour, would impact the Intercity service as it approaches Hornsby and give a flow-on delay going further north.

Freight trains, with a Length of 1500 or 1800 metres, take sometime to clear a section. If Passenger train paths are changed this will usually mean Freight trains need to be re-tabled. Down Freights need to clear Hornsby and Berowra in adequate time, so as not to impead Intercity services going further north.

The aim is to keep any changes to a minimum.
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby Stonesourscotty » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:31 pm

4 Carriage tangara just went west through Auburn. Seems unusual
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby boronia » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:11 pm

Positioning for T5?
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Re: NSW Railway Observations - January to June 2018

Postby Stonesourscotty » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:24 pm

I was wondering if it was the refurbished one?
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