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NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby boronia » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:28 pm

If these bridges do need replacing, perhaps the costs should come from the roads budget, not the Metro budget?

OK, I know its all government money anyway, but the costs should be appropriated to the beneficiaries.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Liamena » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:39 pm

The new trains are smaller than the current ones. The wires do not need to be raised for them. In all except two cases, the track realignments required do not impact any relevant clearance of the bridge. Almost none of this work is actually necessitated by the new trains.

What this really is, is an effort to shift the cost of road maintenance from the road budget to the rail budget. And a lot of the work probably doesn't need to be done at all.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Tonymercury » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:21 am

VivalaBuses wrote:
There is no gotcha scam going on here, the government will have been well advised of this when planning the line.


As you can see was obviously the case with the CBD&SELR! :roll:
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby boronia » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:55 am

http://www.smh.com.au/business/property/metro-stations-to-include-office-resi-towers-and-hotel-20171031-gzby7f.html

November 1 2017 - 5:23AM

Sydney Metro stations to include office, residential and hotels
Carolyn Cummins


Sydney's city and northern skyline are to alter once more with the construction of an office, residential and possible hotel towers on top of the new Sydney Metro stations.

The new sites are part of the NSW government's $20 billion Sydney Metro scheme, which will deliver a new train network across the metropolitan area.
Sydney Metro West promo

Sydney’s next big public transport project will be a new underground metro railway linking the Parramatta and Sydney CBDs, and communities along the way.

In Pitt Street in the CBD, plans are understood to include two buildings: one a 47-storey mixed-use (potential hotel), and a 65-storey residential.

At Victoria Cross Station in Miller Street, North Sydney, there is one building, up to 40 storeys, with commercial offices and integrated retail on the ground level.
Related Articles

The Victoria Cross and Pitt Street stations have been chosen as locations where Sydney could replicate mass-transit-oriented developments such as Hudson Yards in New York and Paddington Station on London's Crossrail.

As the planning process only recently started, there are no details on who will develop, lease or occupy the commercial/retail site and hotel.

Commercial agents have said there is a shortage of hotel rooms and limited supply of new office space, due to the continual conversion to residential sites in the city and North Sydney.

Minister for Transport and Infrastructure Andrew Constance said: "This was a once-in-a-generation opportunity to revitalise Sydney for the future.

An artist's impression of Victoria Cross Station.
An artist's impression of Victoria Cross Station. Photo: Supplied

"Like metro stations around the world, stations on the new Sydney Metro system will be vibrant places and landmarks in their own right."

Planning for integrated station design at Crows Nest will start next year. The new station at Martin Place will also be integrated into the area around it, and the NSW government is assessing an unsolicited proposal.

Hudson Yards in New York City.
Hudson Yards in New York City. Photo: Supplied.

Sydney Metro program director Rodd Staples said work on the integrated designs could start while station construction was under way.

"Sydney Metro is more than just a world-scale public transport project – it's a defining city-building opportunity," Mr Staples said.

Integrated concept designs have been released as part of the Sydney Metro program.
Integrated concept designs have been released as part of the Sydney Metro program. Photo: Supplied

"This is an opportunity to build on the revitalisation Sydney Metro brings, creating truly landmark places and developments that showcase world's-best practice for transit-oriented developments."

Sydney Metro services start in the first half of 2019 on the Sydney Metro Northwest project, with metro rail to be extended in 2024 under Sydney Harbour, through the CBD and beyond to Bankstown
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby VivalaBuses » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:06 am

boronia wrote:If these bridges do need replacing, perhaps the costs should come from the roads budget, not the Metro budget?

OK, I know its all government money anyway, but the costs should be appropriated to the beneficiaries.

Metro is the one that's instigating the changes, so the money should be coming from their budget?
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby VivalaBuses » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:08 am

Liamena wrote:The new trains are smaller than the current ones. The wires do not need to be raised for them. In all except two cases, the track realignments required do not impact any relevant clearance of the bridge. Almost none of this work is actually necessitated by the new trains.

What this really is, is an effort to shift the cost of road maintenance from the road budget to the rail budget. And a lot of the work probably doesn't need to be done at all.

Standards and building codes don't just specify clearances. They also list things such as minimum strengths, material specifications, requirements for structural protection from collisions and are updated over time. The scope of the project means the conversion is being treated as a new line. Subsequently, the bridges built to 20th century standards no longer meet updated 21st century standards for a new railway, as I stated in my previous post. This is why the work is done.

22/27 bridges in the EIS have work related to compliance with standards. Of the 5 remaining bridges listed for "general maintenance" only, 2 bridges involve vehicular traffic, 2 cross canals and 1 cross a sewer. There's no need cynicism here.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby VivalaBuses » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:09 am

Tonymercury wrote:
VivalaBuses wrote:
There is no gotcha scam going on here, the government will have been well advised of this when planning the line.


As you can see was obviously the case with the CBD&SELR! :roll:

Well yes, that one has been a basket case, but Light Rail is irrelevant to the Metro discussion here.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Tonymercury » Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:33 am

VivalaBuses wrote:Well yes, that one has been a basket case, but Light Rail is irrelevant to the Metro discussion here.


I was commenting on your statement, not the Metro.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby boronia » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:25 am

boronia wrote:http://www.smh.com.au/business/property/metro-stations-to-include-office-resi-towers-and-hotel-20171031-gzby7f.html

November 1 2017 - 5:23AM

Sydney Metro stations to include office, residential and hotels

I wonder if the government will sell off the air space to private developers for these projects? I believe Macquarie Bank is sniffing around the Martin Place station site
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby mandonov » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:34 am

The way that they're looking at doing it is for the developer of the building above to also be the entity that pays for the fit out of the station. Win-win for both parties.

Macquarie Bank is more than sniffing around. They've already submitted their unsolicited proposal and are in advanced talks to go ahead with it. The sweetener they're offering in their deal is that they'll construct a tunnel between the Martin Place and Hunter Street concourses underneath their building.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby mandonov » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:37 am

In contrast to AMP Capital, owners of Macquarie Centre who went to court over the ECRL, the owners of Castle Towers have submitted a development application to build a pedestrian connection within their boundary to the concourse of Castle Hill station which is being built under Old Castle Hill Rd.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby boronia » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:46 am

Demolition has started on the sites in Park St, but I noticed recently a building in Bathurst St has a notice saying it is closed due to purchase of the site by the Transport Department.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Tonymercury » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:00 pm

mandonov wrote: the owners of Castle Towers have submitted a development application to build a pedestrian connection within their boundary to the concourse of Castle Hill station which is being built under Old Castle Hill Rd.


This was well known around the shopping centre about 18 months ago - interesting that it has taken so long for something to happen.

In fact -

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/newslo ... a0e4eb8135
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby mandonov » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:30 pm

boronia wrote:Demolition has started on the sites in Park St, but I noticed recently a building in Bathurst St has a notice saying it is closed due to purchase of the site by the Transport Department.

Pitt Street station will have two entrances; one on Park Street and the other on Bathurst Street.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby mandonov » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:06 pm

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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby mandonov » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:01 pm

https://www.sydneymetro.info/sites/defa ... 202017.pdf

^^ Document on the Integrated Station Developments.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Liamena » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:50 am

That file comes up as a sort of broken groundhog day thing on my computer.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Fleet Lists » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:10 pm

I have no problems with the file.
Living in the Shire.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby tonyp » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:26 am

From Sydney Metro Facebook page, an aerial of the entire surface line from Bella Vista to Cudgegong Rd:

Image
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Tonymercury » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:15 pm

And this demonstrates most clearly what I said some years back about it not being immediately adjacent to houses, which does appear to be the case in Melbourne.


And very few buses on the Tway.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby tonyp » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:25 pm

Tonymercury wrote:And this demonstrates most clearly what I said some years back about it not being immediately adjacent to houses, which does appear to be the case in Melbourne.


And very few buses on the Tway.

This is half of the Perth solution - the park and ride bit. With very low-density housing you can't do much better. The walk-ups will be in the business/high-density residential parks.

The question is will it get the other half: the very dense and intense bus feeder and distribution network from the stations? Unlike WA, quality bus services aren't exactly a NSW specialty.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby mandonov » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:50 pm

Tonymercury wrote:And this demonstrates most clearly what I said some years back about it not being immediately adjacent to houses, which does appear to be the case in Melbourne.


And very few buses on the Tway.

Not for long :D

Image
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby tonyp » Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:01 pm

In my youth, this was a pleasant trip in the country. :(
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby mandonov » Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:51 am

Some pics I took a few days back:

Rouse Hill Station
Image

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Kellyville Station
Image

Image

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Bella Vista-ish trench dive
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Image

Image
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby ed24 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:35 pm

I noticed on latest network maps Showground has been renamed Hills Showground
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