Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Adelaide / South Australia Transport Discussion
I Follow PAFC
Posts: 147
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 5:13 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Any low floor bus

Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Post by I Follow PAFC »

FOUR hundred new buses will rejuvenate Adelaide Metro’s fleet over the next 10 years, with the Government committing to build as many as possible in South Australia.

The Government is spruiking its $300 million investment as a shot in the arm for the state’s automotive manufacturing industry as it prepares for tomorrow’s closure of Holden’s Elizabeth Plant.

The contract will go out to tender today.

Companies who pitch electric buses, microhybrids and hydrogen-powered vehicles are all expected to prioritised, with the Government also asking for innovative ideas including Wi-Fi and hi-tech safety features.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sout ... 74a78043c7
TA3001
Posts: 1987
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:01 pm
Favourite Vehicle: 1640. In service - 1738
Location: Earth's Scania capital

Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Post by TA3001 »

This budget will just account for replacements for MAN vehicles built from 1992-2003, some of which are already withdrawn. Must be a slow news day with the media.

I'm surprised that the there are still around 100 or more non wheelchair accessible vehicles in service, given that quite a few are beyond 24 and a half years old.

Any news on when 1601 is likely to be withdrawn?
paulgersche
Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:54 am

Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Post by paulgersche »

Hmmm ...

40 buses a year! Some "shot in the arm"!

Paul
Skexis
Posts: 848
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:11 am

Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Post by Skexis »

40 per year is fine. Bear in mind it takes a fair while to build a bus.
User avatar
nscaler69
Posts: 391
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 6:16 pm
Location: C.L.G. Adelaide

Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Post by nscaler69 »

AdelaideNow: "The Government said innovation would be the order of the day for the bus contract — with the contract facilitating new technologies such as electric and hydrogen buses and micro-hybrids."
The Micro-hybrids sound interesting, maybe to replace the Rosa buses.
Anagram: Timetable - bet I'm late
TA3001
Posts: 1987
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:01 pm
Favourite Vehicle: 1640. In service - 1738
Location: Earth's Scania capital

Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Post by TA3001 »

Skexis wrote:40 per year is fine. Bear in mind it takes a fair while to build a bus.
1941-1943 were delivered in one hit more or less. I'd be surprised it if CC can't build at least 50 a year for Adelaide. 3D printing will speed things up.
Tim Williams
Posts: 1241
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:26 pm
Location: Adelaide

Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Post by Tim Williams »

So, $300,000,000 for 400 buses = $750,000 per bus??

Are they all going to double deckers or artics? Ha!! - I don't know who does their pricing, but that cost is way over the top for that number of buses and if someone says that it is due to support equipment etc., think again!
burrumbus
Posts: 2049
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:12 pm

Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Post by burrumbus »

Is there any election due in South Australia ??? Incredibly expensive single deckers ,Tim!!!!
burrumbus
Posts: 2049
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:12 pm

Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Post by burrumbus »

SPIN !!!!!
Tim Williams
Posts: 1241
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:26 pm
Location: Adelaide

Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Post by Tim Williams »

Yes!!!!!

Spot on!
User avatar
The Phonj
Administrator
Posts: 2873
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 11:09 pm
Favourite Vehicle: MAN SL202, PMCSA body
Location: Somewhere in suburban Adelaide
Contact:

Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Post by The Phonj »

TA3001 wrote:This budget will just account for replacements for MAN vehicles built from 1992-2003, some of which are already withdrawn. Must be a slow news day with the media.
By my calculations, 400 buses over the next ten years will ensure the retirement of all remaining MAN vehicles as you have mentioned (approximately 350 remaining); plus the vast majority of the Southlink owned Scania L94/Volgren CR224 buses in the hills. Looks to be little scope for fleet expansion with this announcement.
Tim Williams wrote:So, $300,000,000 for 400 buses = $750,000 per bus??

Are they all going to double deckers or artics? Ha!! - I don't know who does their pricing, but that cost is way over the top for that number of buses and if someone says that it is due to support equipment etc., think again!
Some of the more emerging technologies - hybrid, electric, hydrogen etc may be more expensive than a 'regular' diesel bus. There may be some additional deckers involved, but who knows really?
Bus Preservation Association of South Australia https://www.bpasa.org.au/
Tramway Museum St. Kilda https://www.trammuseumadelaide.com/
National Railway Museum, Port Adelaide https://nrm.org.au/
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Post by tonyp »

The Phonj wrote:Some of the more emerging technologies - hybrid, electric, hydrogen etc may be more expensive than a 'regular' diesel bus. There may be some additional deckers involved, but who knows really?
That is about the price for a 12 metre electric bus. Perhaps that's what they're going to be?
coach driver 1981
Posts: 177
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:45 pm

Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Post by coach driver 1981 »

well i better start saving my money for a Southlink MAN 2200 series bus loved driving these when i was working for them especially 2205 and 2217
TA3001
Posts: 1987
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:01 pm
Favourite Vehicle: 1640. In service - 1738
Location: Earth's Scania capital

Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Post by TA3001 »

2205 and 2217 are just standard ZF diesel NL202s like 2218-2245, and 1735-1740. Some of the newer ones to have a distinctive retarder sound. Not sure what they like when they were new, but they weren't exactly my faves back then.
coach driver 1981
Posts: 177
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:45 pm

Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Post by coach driver 1981 »

TA3001 wrote:2205 and 2217 are just standard ZF diesel NL202s like 2218-2245, and 1735-1740. Some of the newer ones to have a distinctive retarder sound. Not sure what they like when they were new, but they weren't exactly my faves back then.
i just found these so comfortable to drive compared to an 18.280 2700 bus and a Cb80
User avatar
MrNicoster
Posts: 126
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:58 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Merc O305/G - MAN NL202/11.190
Location: Adelaide

Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Post by MrNicoster »

TA3001 wrote:3D printing will speed things up.
I fail to see how 3D printing could speed up the process of Bus Manufacturing. The technologies currently available would not be able to produce parts able to withstand the stresses of being a bus longer than current normally manufactured parts.
I'm happy to be proven wrong but I do not see current technologies being worth it for manufacturers.
Regards,
Mr Nicoster.

KickingDown around the suburbs with an NL202 and speeding down the O-Bahn in a Merc!
jibb
Posts: 4735
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:59 pm
Location: 265

Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Post by jibb »

It must be close to announcing which companies have won the tender for these new buses. As the tenders closed some time ago and the current contract with Scania/Custom due to expire shortly(and Custom having to start up production again under its new owners) the orders for new buses must be getting close to the ordering stage!
User avatar
1whoknows
Posts: 3983
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:55 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Post by 1whoknows »

You have to remember a lot of things in government go on hold during the caretaker period before an election. And the process will now be scrutinised by the new Minister as well. But doubtless something will be announced ahead of 30 June.
"Inside Every Progressive Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out"
David Horowitz.
homer9000
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:00 am

Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Post by homer9000 »

i hope those low floor buses many of which first saw light of day in the nineties ex serco mobiles get replaced.i hate connecting off say a c2 or 500 or 502 and getting onto my connecting 200 to work only to find out it is on one of those.i don't mind getting say a 1200 or 1400 or 1800 series bus on those but anything else yuk.
User avatar
Crispy!
Posts: 1375
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:43 am
Favourite Vehicle: Mercedes Benz O405NH
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Contact:

Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Post by Crispy! »

Stupid SA government wasting money replacing the fleet yes some buses are old etc the SL202’s 11.190’s and soon the NL202 Diesels will start to go

It makes no sense having an age limit for older buses when these buses are in good working order replacing them with a cheap unrealistic replacement

are these new buses such as CB80 Scania’s much better on fuel? for the environment? or for passenger comfort?

I honestly hate sometimes getting on a CB80 Rigid or Artic in the middle of a cold day or rainy day and driver has the A/C set to a very cold temperature
also some of the 1800’s 1900 Ecolife Scania’s are rough as guts in terms of ride quality and another thing I’ve noticed is the lack of leg room on 1941-1970 *1962 I was on a few weeks back had hardly any leg room and hard seats especially up the left hand side front seat area.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
BUSWAY EQUIPPED:
PLEASE CHECK GUIDEWHEELS
BEFORE DEPARTURE.
User avatar
BroadGauge
Posts: 3740
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:20 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Car
Location: NSW

Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Post by BroadGauge »

Crispy! wrote:It makes no sense having an age limit for older buses when these buses are in good working order replacing them with a cheap unrealistic replacement
There are vehicles that are 50 years old, but are still in good working order. Should they still be using those?

Do you have any evidence that the new vehicles being procured are either "cheap" or are "unrealistic" for the task they perform? I do note that they have always gone with locally bodied vehicles in Adelaide and not lower cost imported buses from China etc, which suggests that they are paying more for quality and to sustain local jobs.
Crispy! wrote:I honestly hate sometimes getting on a CB80 Rigid or Artic in the middle of a cold day or rainy day and driver has the A/C set to a very cold temperature
If the driver has the air conditioning temperature set too low, that's the fault of the driver, not the vehicle. Perhaps you could ask them nicely to turn the temperature up? ;)
User avatar
PoweredByCNG
Posts: 3501
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2004 11:26 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Mercedes-Benz O 405
Location: WA
Contact:

Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Post by PoweredByCNG »

BroadGauge wrote:If the driver has the air conditioning temperature set too low, that's the fault of the driver, not the vehicle. Perhaps you could ask them nicely to turn the temperature up? ;)
That is not always possible. Many operators now configure their HVAC systems as "climate control", with the driver unable to control set point temperature, heating vs. cooling or fan speed. On top of that, many operators have a policy that prohibits drivers from turning off HVAC when there are passengers on-board a vehicle.
Proud owner of ex-Transperth 1042 and ex-Transperth 1114.
Merc1107
Posts: 2243
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:38 pm
Favourite Vehicle: MAN 18.310, MB O405NH, L94
Location: A Coastal City

Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Post by Merc1107 »

PoweredByCNG wrote:
BroadGauge wrote:If the driver has the air conditioning temperature set too low, that's the fault of the driver, not the vehicle. Perhaps you could ask them nicely to turn the temperature up? ;)
That is not always possible. Many operators now configure their HVAC systems as "climate control", with the driver unable to control set point temperature, heating vs. cooling or fan speed. On top of that, many operators have a policy that prohibits drivers from turning off HVAC when there are passengers on-board a vehicle.
To add to this; sometimes the temperature set-point is too high or too low. In the case of Thermo-King airconditioning systems, they are incredibly aggressive with their use of the cooling function to 'supplement' the heater. One would think simply varying the heating output rather than adding cooling would result in far fewer temperature swings (the climate control in my 25y/o car manages blending just fine... Why not a new bus?). These systems often bounce between cyclonic-force heating and cooling ad nauseam... Thus, if the heater is weak, the air-conditioning may be over-powering whatever negligible heating effect there is.
BroadGauge wrote:Do you have any evidence that the new vehicles being procured are either "cheap" or are "unrealistic" for the task they perform?
Aren't Adelaide in the process of procuring a fleet of BCIs of some form or another?
It was also my understanding the Scanias in Adelaide do receive a lot of flak for their reliability, build quality and overall layout (i.e. internal steps)...
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Post by tonyp »

Merc1107 wrote: It was also my understanding the Scanias in Adelaide do receive a lot of flak for their reliability, build quality and overall layout (i.e. internal steps)...
Scania N series fully low-floor chassis is the answer to eliminating internal steps. Volgren does an excellent job with these, both on local orders and orders for Japan. No other chassis manufacturer so far on the Australian market, apart from MAN, offers a low-floor chassis. Mercedes has floated a non-complying demonstrator here but no developments since. Volvo isn't even in the running.

Failing that, even the K series with a high floor at the back is not bad on an artic. You get a stepless floor right through to the rear axle. There is a fleet of new K series artics, Volgren-bodied, in Nowra NSW and they're beautiful. So quiet and so spacious with the low floor extending through most of the bus. It certainly makes a difference to getting the passengers to distribute throughout the bus and they're very comfortable to stand in too.

For some reason, Adelaide and Canberra have ordered "combo" artics in the past, with the high floor starting in the front of the bus. Now that both cities are adopting all-door loading, these buses will let them down badly with their steps at all but the front door.
8342a.jpg
8342a.jpg (135 KiB) Viewed 10488 times
Eurostar
Posts: 621
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 1:42 pm
Favourite Vehicle: XPT
Location: Adelaide Parklands Terminal

Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Post by Eurostar »

Latest buses at Volgren look great
Attachments
20140929_135809-150x150.jpg
20140929_135809-150x150.jpg (10.09 KiB) Viewed 10471 times
DSC07403b-300x128.jpg
DSC07403b-300x128.jpg (12.53 KiB) Viewed 10471 times
Next station is Victoria Square. Change here for all trains.
Post Reply

Return to “Discussion - Adelaide / SA”