STA Observations - October 2017

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
User avatar
Swift
Posts: 13247
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:23 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Porshe 911 Carerra
Location: Ettalong- the world capital of 0405s.

STA Observations - October 2017

Post by Swift »

Sitting near the stepped centre exit (and entry for some :wink: ) of a Bustech today, made me realise one positive. It discourages people from standing in the red no standing area where the doors swing inwards. This has been a problem for other low entry vehicles since day dot.
I watched a couple of elderly people use it and they seem to take it in their stride and had more noticeable drama on the final step to the kerb than the internal one.
Attachments
SHT!!.jpg
SHT!!.jpg (147.58 KiB) Viewed 11859 times
NSW, the state that embraces mediocrity.
Jurassic_Joke
Posts: 1138
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:08 pm

Re: STA Observations - October 2017

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

But on the other hand - it looks "off" because then it looks vastly less like a City bus, and more like some Coach
Bovways
Posts: 721
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 10:48 am
Location: North-west Sydney

Re: STA Observations - October 2017

Post by Bovways »

Swift wrote:I watched a couple of elderly people use it and they seem to take it in their stride and had more noticeable drama on the final step to the kerb than the internal one.
I spent a large part of 2016 on medication which made me unsteady on my feet. I felt much more comfortable using this step when the bus was stopped that I did using the stairs to the rear part of the bus in other body designs while the bus was moving. For me, the ramped floor design is a good trade off for this reason.

C :)
User avatar
Swift
Posts: 13247
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:23 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Porshe 911 Carerra
Location: Ettalong- the world capital of 0405s.

Re: STA Observations - October 2017

Post by Swift »

Bovways wrote:
Swift wrote:I watched a couple of elderly people use it and they seem to take it in their stride and had more noticeable drama on the final step to the kerb than the internal one.
I spent a large part of 2016 on medication which made me unsteady on my feet. I felt much more comfortable using this step when the bus was stopped that I did using the stairs to the rear part of the bus in other body designs while the bus was moving. For me, the ramped floor design is a good trade off for this reason.

C :)
Yet Adelaide has chosen to omit this trade off. Windows are above eye level when seated. Maybe they need to reconsider. :wink:
NSW, the state that embraces mediocrity.
Stonesourscotty
Posts: 799
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:01 am
Favourite Vehicle: Wright Gemini 2 B9TL
Location: Wigan England / Penrith Sydney

Re: STA Observations - October 2017

Post by Stonesourscotty »

Ryde's 4831 on 311 on Tuesday evening
Frosty
Posts: 1828
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:16 pm

Re: STA Observations - October 2017

Post by Frosty »

4831 is now at Randwick as Randwick operates the 311 hence why 4831 was on that route. On another note saw 2108 Not In Service at Green Square heading to the City with an interesting desto very rare to see this bus other than along Anzac Pde.
https://imgur.com/a/6Whtd

I did see something bizzare saw a driver start a 301 shift inbound at Eastlakes 10 mins early. I never seen this before I’ve seen drivers start a couple mins early but 10 that’s something.
User avatar
Swift
Posts: 13247
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:23 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Porshe 911 Carerra
Location: Ettalong- the world capital of 0405s.

Re: STA Observations - October 2017

Post by Swift »

^I got caught out by that myself today waiting for a 396 to the Junction. There was a rubbish pile over the road that I wanted to quickly look at and my watch indicated 4 minutes till bus was due, so I crossed over and looked briefly and when I looked up there was my bus coming 3 mins early! I put my hand out as I crossed in front (it was a safe distance away) and to my dismay he was going to keep going when I had to signal him again as I reached the kerb and he had to make a sudden beeline to pick me up. It was a Volvo B1BLEA, a bus you don't see often on that run, so I was doubly glad to get it.
NSW, the state that embraces mediocrity.
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: STA Observations - October 2017

Post by tonyp »

Swift wrote:Sitting near the stepped centre exit (and entry for some :wink: ) of a Bustech today, made me realise one positive. It discourages people from standing in the red no standing area where the doors swing inwards. This has been a problem for other low entry vehicles since day dot.
Not really. The way the doors retract to the sides means that you can stand right up against them if you wish. (Unless you're riding that Carbridge Gemilang with the hinged doors that work like a flyswatter on anyone standing near them, fortunately a one-off!)
Bovways wrote: I spent a large part of 2016 on medication which made me unsteady on my feet. I felt much more comfortable using this step when the bus was stopped that I did using the stairs to the rear part of the bus in other body designs while the bus was moving. For me, the ramped floor design is a good trade off for this reason.

C :)
Of course you can have both a stepless aisle and a stepless doorway if you order a proper low floor bus. Once the Australian bus industry's stubborn resistance to progress finally collapses.
User avatar
boronia
Posts: 21567
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:18 am
Favourite Vehicle: Ahrens Fox; GMC PD4107
Location: Sydney NSW

Re: STA Observations - October 2017

Post by boronia »

tonyp wrote:
Swift wrote:Sitting near the stepped centre exit (and entry for some :wink: ) of a Bustech today, made me realise one positive. It discourages people from standing in the red no standing area where the doors swing inwards. This has been a problem for other low entry vehicles since day dot.
Not really. The way the doors retract to the sides means that you can stand right up against them if you wish. (Unless you're riding that Carbridge Gemilang with the hinged doors that work like a flyswatter on anyone standing near them, fortunately a one-off!)
It is surprising the number of people who lean up against the bulkheads while standing in this area, mainly foreign student types. They get hit repeatedly by the opening doors, but it seems to take a while for the solution to sink in.
Preserving fire service history
@ The Museum of Fire.
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: STA Observations - October 2017

Post by tonyp »

boronia wrote: It is surprising the number of people who lean up against the bulkheads while standing in this area, mainly foreign student types. They get hit repeatedly by the opening doors, but it seems to take a while for the solution to sink in.
Well leaning against the bulkheads is another matter, but maybe these people are thick-skinned and regard it as no more than being hit by a wet sock. If they stood against the bulkhead of that Carbridge Gemilang with the Malaysian doors they'd be 75% less thick (both physically and mentally) than they were before they got on the bus!
Stonesourscotty
Posts: 799
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:01 am
Favourite Vehicle: Wright Gemini 2 B9TL
Location: Wigan England / Penrith Sydney

Re: STA Observations - October 2017

Post by Stonesourscotty »

4831 is still marked up as Ryde on the side of the bus even if its at Randwick.
Jurassic_Joke
Posts: 1138
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:08 pm

Re: STA Observations - October 2017

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

Waverley operates the 311 as well, hence the significant number of Mercedes Gassies that can be found on the route during the daytime.
User avatar
Swift
Posts: 13247
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:23 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Porshe 911 Carerra
Location: Ettalong- the world capital of 0405s.

Re: STA Observations - October 2017

Post by Swift »

(Regards Bustech buses)
Jurassic_Joke wrote:But on the other hand - it looks "off" because then it looks vastly less like a City bus, and more like some Coach
I just caught 14.5m Scania 3419 on an X96 and that felt coach like in character. It ran pretty well too.
NSW, the state that embraces mediocrity.
moa999
Posts: 2923
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:12 pm

Re: STA Observations - October 2017

Post by moa999 »

I assume there is a pax number tradeoff in a given length of a fully low floor vehicle as much of the drive equipment needs to be moved to the rear.

Are govt requirements thus partially driving these half low floors
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: STA Observations - October 2017

Post by tonyp »

moa999 wrote:I assume there is a pax number tradeoff in a given length of a fully low floor vehicle as much of the drive equipment needs to be moved to the rear.

Are govt requirements thus partially driving these half low floors
No there is no passenger capacity or seating trade off as the seats still go on top of the mechanicals. The mechanicals are just arranged differently so that a stepless aisle can be cut right through to the back.

None of the state standard bus specification requirements that I've seen preclude low floor. In fact every mainland state plus ACT has had low-floor buses running around at some time or the other. There's plenty of background discussion of the issues in the "back door" thread here.
User avatar
Swift
Posts: 13247
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:23 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Porshe 911 Carerra
Location: Ettalong- the world capital of 0405s.

Re: STA Observations - October 2017

Post by Swift »

^^ Speaking of fully low floor, I happened upon 2112ST at Maroubra Junction today. Haven't seen it in many months.
NSW, the state that embraces mediocrity.
Bovways
Posts: 721
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 10:48 am
Location: North-west Sydney

Re: STA Observations - October 2017

Post by Bovways »

moa999 wrote:I assume there is a pax number tradeoff in a given length of a fully low floor vehicle as much of the drive equipment needs to be moved to the rear.
Are govt requirements thus partially driving these half low floors
Fully flat floor to the rear means less seats. There's usually a tendency to try and provide more seats.

Also most of the few true fully low floor bus in the past that made it into service (late 90's / early 2000's off the top of my head) reportedly had difficulty with cramped mechanicals and Australian conditions (heat and poor roads).

So it's all been a matter of trade offs.
tonyp
Posts: 12348
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:31 am

Re: STA Observations - October 2017

Post by tonyp »

Bovways wrote:
Fully flat floor to the rear means less seats. There's usually a tendency to try and provide more seats.

Also most of the few true fully low floor bus in the past that made it into service (late 90's / early 2000's off the top of my head) reportedly had difficulty with cramped mechanicals and Australian conditions (heat and poor roads).

So it's all been a matter of trade offs.
No, there's typically no reduction in the number of seats as these remain basically the same on a strip of high floor along each side of the bus and at the back row. The difference from the typical low-entry is that the aisle between them is dropped down in a stepless trench. This situation is unsustainable in busy operations (like STA) and can't continue:
loadingfail.jpg
loadingfail.jpg (186.13 KiB) Viewed 10757 times
There are still low floors (including the bottom deck of double deckers) being ordered in Australia and also incidentally in Singapore and neither climate nor road conditions are an issue with them. It's just conservatism that's holding it back.
Stu
Posts: 4345
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:37 pm

Re: STA Observations - October 2017

Post by Stu »

Recently 1616 from V was operating an m30. This is simply due to the fact that N perform repairs for V buses and therefore it is common to see buses from V on loan to N. I've never seen a Volvo B12 Volgren bodied rigid bus operate an m30 before, certainly not a common occourance.
User avatar
Swift
Posts: 13247
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:23 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Porshe 911 Carerra
Location: Ettalong- the world capital of 0405s.

Re: STA Observations - October 2017

Post by Swift »

It's a shame State Transit lost some of these often overlooked and unique buses in the fleet, to TSA.
NSW, the state that embraces mediocrity.
Jurassic_Joke
Posts: 1138
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:08 pm

Re: STA Observations - October 2017

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

Swift wrote:It's a shame State Transit lost some of these often overlooked and unique buses in the fleet, to TSA.
Well, you have Gladys Alpha-b-#*($7836 to thank for that as that was her doing back in her day was it not? For your actual point however, debatable; from what I know, all of what TSA has, theres more of that bus type in another State Transit depot?

State Transit in Newcastle lost some of those standard Volgren C2RR8l buses (whatever) e.g. for good to Keolis Downer/Newcastle Transport.

It wouldnt have been nice, for example, if the regions/depots containing the Metrobus prototypes were sold off to the private sector, that I wouldnt like.
User avatar
Swift
Posts: 13247
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:23 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Porshe 911 Carerra
Location: Ettalong- the world capital of 0405s.

Re: STA Observations - October 2017

Post by Swift »

2112ST. The best bus the STA has ever had and probably will have.
NSW, the state that embraces mediocrity.
Stu
Posts: 4345
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:37 pm

Re: STA Observations - October 2017

Post by Stu »

3824 looking fresh in v2 corporate livery.
Jurassic_Joke
Posts: 1138
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:08 pm

Re: STA Observations - October 2017

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

Swift wrote:2112ST. The best bus the STA has ever had and probably will have.
Ah yeah we could talk a little bit about that one. What exactly do you like about it? Its quite rare, but when I do see it, its typically on a weekday on M20

I think its called Scania N30 Volgren , something like that off the top of the head?The one that looks virtually identical to the usual Metrobus Volgren on the outside but the interior is a completely different story.

The standing-leaning pads at the front are excellent, absent on the normal Metrobus Volgren. And the front seat is much much more comfortable. Individual seats are better than bench. However, the doors are definitely not as wide on the other hand. Its engine sound is also a bit....mm. I don't know, not a fan.

I wonder what informed State Transit in deciding the Volvo Volgren should be the one ordered in large numbers of batches, because the Scania Volgren 2112 definitely does quite a few things better as mentioned
User avatar
Swift
Posts: 13247
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:23 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Porshe 911 Carerra
Location: Ettalong- the world capital of 0405s.

Re: STA Observations - October 2017

Post by Swift »

It's their sole Scania N310UA and I am speaking purely from a practical standpoint. It has low floor all the way to the back and it is what the STA originally planned to order for the 150 three door Metrobus/TNSW articulated buses but due to delays, they changed them to the Volvos with raised section from the rear axle. At least, being an artic allows plenty of low floor area in the Volvos and served by all three doors. The 5 cylinder Scania engine handles 18m of bus really well from my observations (and makes it fascinating in it's own way) and doesn't vibrate too badly at idle from memory. As you said, it isn't the most entertaining sounding unit to be sure.
One other thing that stood out about it (and is what helped me to spot it) was the relatively squat looking rear overhang, compared the Volvos. I attribute that to the transverse engine layout.
I'm personally happy thy ran with the B12BLEAs for the engine action up the back. Most of them sound fantastic as they take off but it is always fun to score the Scania for something novel.
NSW, the state that embraces mediocrity.
Post Reply

Return to “Discussion - Sydney / NSW”