Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beaches

[Fleet Lists]

Not 190 as it will no longer exist.

[Rick R]

This morning there was a B-Line MAN decker parked in the Spit Reserve carpark surrounded by lots of people in suits. No rego plates or fleet numbers afixed.

[tonyp]

This morning there was a B-Line MAN decker parked in the Spit Reserve carpark surrounded by lots of people in suits. No rego plates or fleet numbers afixed.

That's a worry. People in suits usually have salary-package cars and know nothing about the realities of actually travelling in buses. If it was surrounded by little old ladies with shopping trolleys, mums with prams, tattered students, dowdy commuters, young secretary birds etc etc I'd be more confident that it will get a proper appraisal!

[burrumbus]

How accurate Tony!!! Unfortunately the're the ones that makes the decisions regarding our industry.And who gets it wrong so often.

[boronia]

Probably the media getting exclusive access for photographs to be released during the next LNP crisis elsewhere.

But surely there was a Premier and/or Transport Minister there in an orange vest and white hard hat, as well?

[moa999]

Big story on 7News tonight showing the resplendent bright yellow MAN bus.
Particularly mention made of the USB ports (showed a pair of ports 5V 1A and 5V 2.1A for those technically minded.. shame they couldn't see the future and put a QC3 or USB-C connector)

Also showed the hole in the ground at the old Mosman cinema site

[Swift]

How long until some waste of air shoves chewy into them?

[rogf24]

Big story on 7News tonight showing the resplendent bright yellow MAN bus.
Particularly mention made of the USB ports (showed a pair of ports 5V 1A and 5V 2.1A for those technically minded.. shame they couldn't see the future and put a QC3 or USB-C connector)

Also showed the hole in the ground at the old Mosman cinema site

5V/2.1A is about as powerful as you get without the need for proprietary technology like QC3 and considering that not all phones support proprietary charging technology or have different fast charging standards, I think it's best that we just have industry standard charging so not to disadvantage other phones or other proprietary charging methods. USB-C PD is the new industry standard that also offers built in fast charging but it's still quite new, apart from the Pixel, I'm not aware of any devices that uses its built in fast charging technology. I know some other phones with USB-C have fast charging but they use proprietary technology reverting to 5V/2.1A the charger does not support it, even if it has USB-C PD. So it's probably best to leave it to the industry standard that all phones understands and is in widespread usage for now.

[swtt]

5V/2.1A is about as powerful as you get without the need for proprietary technology like QC3 and considering that not all phones support proprietary charging technology or have different fast charging standards, I think it's best that we just have industry standard charging so not to disadvantage other phones or other proprietary charging methods. USB-C PD is the new industry standard that also offers built in fast charging but it's still quite new, apart from the Pixel, I'm not aware of any devices that uses its built in fast charging technology. I know some other phones with USB-C have fast charging but they use proprietary technology reverting to 5V/2.1A the charger does not support it, even if it has USB-C PD. So it's probably best to leave it to the industry standard that all phones understands and is in widespread usage for now.

Agreed. 5V 2.1A actually is already 10.5W. Not too bad already -- for the hour that some passengers will be on the bus it'll charge the phone back up a fair bit, as well as keep the phone running too.

[moa999]

But when you consider how long these buses will be in service you need to be on the edge.
Be like putting in an Apple 16-pin charger (as many hotels did).
USB-C looks like the standard going forward

[Rick R]

Nice to see the focus on the big picture issues here

[boronia]

Blows traded over passenger capacity boost from B-Line buses to northern beaches
Matt O'Sullivan

Published: August 22 2017 - 6:00PM

The state government has traded blows with the Opposition over the extent of the boost to passenger capacity on buses from Sydney's northern beaches to the central city when the $514 million B-Line bus project is completed as early as mid-November.

Labor leader Luke Foley used leaked Infrastructure NSW documents on Tuesday to accuse the government of pursuing a multimillion-dollar bus project that "won't improve things at all" but would need improvements almost as soon as it was opened.

A "health-check" document for the project in May said the B-Line was forecast to boost total capacity for passengers – both seated and standing – by 19 per cent on weekday mornings between 6am and 10am from Sydney's northern beaches to Wynyard in the CBD, but by just 30 passengers during the key period of 8am to 9am.

The Opposition's claims prompted Transport Minister Andrew Constance to accuse Mr Foley of "getting your numbers wrong" by relying on an outdated Infrastructure NSW document.

"Luke Foley doesn't know the difference between a singe-deck and a double-deck bus," he said. "What the plan shows, very clearly, is that when you take single-deck buses, and you put double-deck buses on ... bus passenger capacity increases."

Despite Labor's claims, Mr Constance said the B-Line buses would deliver an extra 3000 seats in the morning peak from 6am to 10am on services from the northern beaches to Wynyard in the CBD.

As part of the project, 38 double-decker buses will run between the CBD and Newport on the northern beaches via 11 stops. They will operate every five minutes in the morning peak from 6am to 10am, and every 10 minutes at other times.

One of the Infrastructure NSW documents – dated April – released by Labor warned of a risk of the B-Line "exceeding capacity soon after commencing" late this year.

It recommended a "contingency plan be developed that provides a clear course of action".

But Mr Constance said the government would "keep a close eye on demand" and continue to invest in the B-Line, ensuring it delivered higher frequency and more reliable services to northern beaches residents.

The Berejiklian government has also committed to building a tollroad tunnel connecting Balgowlah in Sydney's north to the Warringah Freeway.

But Mr Foley said Labor would not give a "blank cheque" to construct the Beaches Link when larger transport priorities lay in fast-growing parts of western Sydney.

"There do need to be transport improvements for the residents of the northern beaches but I can also say, without a shadow of a doubt, that delivering transport improvements to 3 million residents of western Sydney ... is a greater, more important metropolitan priority," he said.

This story was found at: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/blows-traded- ... y1bcf.html

[tonyp]

I'd say Foley knows more about the difference between a single and double deck bus than Constance. He's right, it doesn't increase capacity - articulated single deckers do that. It's about increasing seating capacity.

[Fleet Lists]

It is Mr Constance who refers to that subject. I cant see Mr Foley making such a statement.
Twisting things again to suit your argument.

[tonyp]

I read the report again and to me it reads that Foley is saying (supported by an INSW document) that it won't increase capacity (that is total number of people transported) while Constance is saying it will, rather bizarrely inferring that putting another deck on a single decker greatly increases the bus' capacity. It does seem that Foley has a better handle on the subject than Constance.

And what argument of mine? I have no problem with increasing seating capacity on this long distance bus route as long as it's understood that this doesn't actually increase total carrying capacity over an equivalent service run by artics.

[Fleet Lists]

I thought we pretty well agreed that artics were the better option for shorter distance but double deckers for longer distances (such as BLine) but again you are all artics with double deckers out.

[tonyp]

Wires are getting crossed, sorry if I contribute to the confusion. I am happy with deckers on this service. I'm saying that they don't increase total capacity over an equivalent number of artics, in fact a little less total capacity. So Foley is correct on the technical point. However, given a relatively small difference in total capacity and the length of the route, the deckers are the better choice.

Constance is simply drowning in the government's own spin saying that "of course" deckers have more capacity because they have another deck on top. He demonstrates that he doesn't have a clue.

[moa999]

I read the report again and to me it reads that Foley is saying (supported by an INSW document) that it won't increase capacity (that is total number of people transported) while Constance is saying it will, rather bizarrely inferring that putting another deck on a single decker greatly increases the bus' capacity. It does seem that Foley has a better handle on the subject than Constance.
.

In a conga-line of buses, it certainly increases the number of people carried in a 200m line of buses.
It also enable more buses to fit into the relatively space restricted offloading points at Wynyard (albeit much like our double deck trains, this comes with increased dwell time due to the stairs, although two doubles back to back will have four doors versus three on a bendy)

[tonyp]

In a conga-line of buses, it certainly increases the number of people carried in a 200m line of buses.
It also enable more buses to fit into the relatively space restricted offloading points at Wynyard (albeit much like our double deck trains, this comes with increased dwell time due to the stairs, although two doubles back to back will have four doors versus three on a bendy)

If that problem at Wynyard can't be solved then deckers are definitely the better choice on this service for that reason as well. Horses for courses. If further capacity is needed in the future they will no doubt provide a background service of single deckers with different stopping patterns, or continue existing services.

[burrumbus]

Or lift the frequency of the B/Line and buy more deckers,Tony.I think simplying the system up there and making the core via B/Line frequent will lifts in the frequency of the feeders will work well.The key ,I think will be removing much of the myriad of overlapping and confusing services and simpyfing the whole network.

[GazzaOak]

If that problem at Wynyard can't be solved then deckers are definitely the better choice on this service for that reason as well. Horses for courses. If further capacity is needed in the future they will no doubt provide a background service of single deckers with different stopping patterns, or continue existing services.

There will be some services which remains the same, or have new routes on top of the B-line, so all its not bad

[Stu]

If more capacity is needed then artics can be added to the 'B-Line' mix. Oh wait a minute, Minister Constraints said that all of the artics would be replaced by DD Just stirring.

It will be interesting to see what ensues with the Northern Beaches artics once the DD's consume the North.

[tonyp]

Artics are the bus industry's "trams". There would be high demand corridors where they would be good. 400 would probably be a candidate if it wasn't for Eastgardens. They wouldn't go astray on the Gong Shuttle either unless they increase the frequency.

[Tonymercury]

There is a relatively simple answer at Eastgardens in the form of Westfield Drive, if only someone was prepared to do something about it.

[Jurassic_Joke]

If more capacity is needed then artics can be added to the 'B-Line' mix. Oh wait a minute, Minister Constraints said that all of the artics would be replaced by DD Just stirring.

It will be interesting to see what ensues with the Northern Beaches artics once the DD's consume the North.

The Volgren artics are (mostly) from this decade, they still have plenty of life left in them. It would be a disgusting waste to retire them early for any reason, whatsoever, if the plans are there. The 3 Metrobus artic prototype buses are slightly older but should still be fine for several more years. As for the (oldest type) Custom Coaches artics mostly operating on the Northern Beaches, I think instead of retiring them early, provided not as many are needed up there once the new plan goes into effect, some of them could move some to another depot that needs them. Like Leichhardt, 433 / 431 (among many other Parramatta Road routes) are growing more and more busy in rush hour lately I've noticed