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PERTH TRAMS TO RETURN

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PERTH TRAMS TO RETURN

Postby Guy_Arab » Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:26 pm

To day Sunday Times quoted THE WA GOVERNMENT WILL REBUILD THE PERTH TRAMWAY SYSTEM
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Re: PERTH TRAMS TO RETURN

Postby Bus Suggestions » Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:39 pm

Link to the West Australian article: Perth on Track For a Tram Revival
The West Australian wrote:Trams could return to Perth after more than 60 years under a new plan being devised by the McGowan Government.

Transport Minister Rita Saffioti confirmed yesterday a business case — to be sent to Infrastructure Australia — was now being developed for an “inner suburbs transit system”, with Perth MLA John Carey “overseeing consideration of routes”.

One route under consideration was an arc connecting Curtin University in Bentley to the Perth CBD to the University of Western Australia.

“The State Government has undertaken a high-level investigation into potential light rail corridors for Perth and parliamentary secretary John Carey is overseeing consideration of route options,” Ms Saffioti said.

“It’s early days, and we are also looking at several missing links in the existing network.

“For example, the argument for a knowledge arc connecting Curtin University Bentley to Perth CBD to University of WA in Nedlands is well known.

“These areas are quite constrained, particularly around the QE11 medical precinct, which would benefit from a more streamlined transport system.”

Trams came to Perth in 1899, with the first line running along Hay Street from East Perth near the WACA to Thomas Street, West Perth.

Over the years, the tram network was extended to other areas, including Inglewood, Claremont, South Perth, Maylands and Mt Lawley.

The last tram in Perth ran on July 19, 1958.

Bringing trams back to Perth has been on the drawing board since 2013, when then-premier Colin Barnett announced plans to build a CBD light rail system called MAX Light Rail.

The project was progressively delayed because of funding issues and then abandoned before the 2017 State election. During that election campaign, Labor said it would try and revive the light rail plan.

But the cashed-up McGowan Government reveals today, that planning to bring trams back to Perth is well and truly back on the agenda.

Ms Saffioti said planning for light rail would incorporate “all technologies”, meaning “all systems could be on the table”.

“This is something I have asked Metronet and the Department of Transport to consider as it is important we look at these emerging technologies,” Ms Saffioti said.

“Several local governments have also indicated they are open to exploring new kinds of systems.

“By the time we are considering light rail as part of Metronet Stage 2, many of these technologies will be more mature and would have been tested in other environments.”

Metronet Stage One includes delivering the Forrestfield Airport Link, the Yanchep rail extension, the Thornlie-Cockburn link, the Morley-Ellenbrook line and the Byford rail extension.

“At the end of this year we will see a number of heavy rail projects start construction, with the Bayswater station upgrade, Yanchep rail extension and Thornlie-Cockburn link getting under way,” Ms Saffioti said.

Ms Saffioti said commonwealth funding would be sought for the light rail project.
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Re: PERTH TRAMS TO RETURN

Postby boronia » Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:11 pm

Well, trams COULD return, government plans aren't always followed up.

And I doubt there would be a rebuild of the old system.

It will probably be like what Sydney is getting, just token showpieces to encourage new development
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Re: PERTH TRAMS TO RETURN

Postby Merc1107 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:53 pm

boronia wrote:Well, trams COULD return, government plans aren't always followed up.

And I doubt there would be a rebuild of the old system.

It will probably be like what Sydney is getting, just token showpieces to encourage new development

Quite true. Not to mention, the "second stage" of Metronet is well and truly dependent on a second-term State Labor Government (i.e. this is just another election promise, rehashing old ideas as their own, etc).
On a side note; their plans for Ellenbrook rail are going to take a while to materialise too, seeing as there has been 2.5 years of relative silence on that project.
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Re: PERTH TRAMS TO RETURN

Postby tonyp » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:06 pm

It's the same line that's been on the books for several years. There's a difference between a government saying they'll consider something and the start of any real action.

The question in my mind is that typically a tram line will be built where the demand is too great for an existing bus link (but not enough to justify a train line), yet there is no direct bus link connecting Curtin-CBD-QE2-UWA, so how do they figure that demand is great enough along this corridor to justify a tram?
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Re: PERTH TRAMS TO RETURN

Postby TP1462 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:28 pm

Merc1107 wrote:
boronia wrote:Well, trams COULD return, government plans aren't always followed up.

And I doubt there would be a rebuild of the old system.

It will probably be like what Sydney is getting, just token showpieces to encourage new development

Quite true. Not to mention, the "second stage" of Metronet is well and truly dependent on a second-term State Labor Government (i.e. this is just another election promise, rehashing old ideas as their own, etc).
On a side note; their plans for Ellenbrook rail are going to take a while to materialise too, seeing as there has been 2.5 years of relative silence on that project.


The Ellenbrook railway is in the planning stages, work will start later this year as part of the Tonkin Gap alliance contract which includes railway enabling works to facilitate railway construction including structures, main roads will go to tender in late July, what is unclear is how the line will get to Ellenbrook from Tonkin freeway whether it’ll continue along the new Tonkin freeway extension into the promenade via a cut and cover tunnel just off Drumpellier drive or if it’ll veer off into reid then lord street via a tunnel given there is no planning or funding to grade seperate Reid & Altone or reid & lord street however that maybe apart of the project scope depended on the Business case which is just a few months away


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Re: PERTH TRAMS TO RETURN

Postby TP1462 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:34 pm

I’d like to see a system that runs via Glendalough station to Scarborough beach I feel that has the most potential outside of a educational service


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Re: PERTH TRAMS TO RETURN

Postby Merc1107 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:23 pm

TP1462 wrote:The Ellenbrook railway is in the planning stages, work will start later this year as part of the Tonkin Gap alliance contract which includes railway enabling works to facilitate railway construction including structures
The Forrest Highway to the South-West was constructed with a future rail link to Bunbury in mind; that the works on Tonkin Highway make provisions for a future rail link is just planning for the future. The Business Case they are developing may well highlight the link isn't necessary for some time yet. We will see.

tonyp wrote:The question in my mind is that typically a tram line will be built where the demand is too great for an existing bus link (but not enough to justify a train line), yet there is no direct bus link connecting Curtin-CBD-QE2-UWA, so how do they figure that demand is great enough along this corridor to justify a tram?
Great point. Another issue with linking Universities is the seasonal demand they generate. Compare the 950, 960 or Circles during the uni semester and during the break - big difference! There are parts of that journey (CBD-QE2) that seem like they'd be busy, but isn't the point of a tram that they're busy along almost the entirety of the route?
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Re: PERTH TRAMS TO RETURN

Postby Mr OC Benz » Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:57 pm

Merc1107 wrote:
tonyp wrote:The question in my mind is that typically a tram line will be built where the demand is too great for an existing bus link (but not enough to justify a train line), yet there is no direct bus link connecting Curtin-CBD-QE2-UWA, so how do they figure that demand is great enough along this corridor to justify a tram?
Great point. Another issue with linking Universities is the seasonal demand they generate. Compare the 950, 960 or Circles during the uni semester and during the break - big difference! There are parts of that journey (CBD-QE2) that seem like they'd be busy, but isn't the point of a tram that they're busy along almost the entirety of the route?


There is no direct bus link between Curtin-CBD-QEII-UWA, however, both the Curtin-CBD and UWA/QEII-CBD bus services are well patronised. So combining the two heavily patronised corridors into a single tram route may have a greater chance of being viable than other corridors. However, this sounds more like a solution looking for a problem. Whether Light Rail is actually a justified option to pursue right now needs to be assessed. I think in any case, it's introduction is likely to be a catalyst for greater intensity development which may have more weight in decision making than to actually solve a pre-existing problem - much like many of the METRONET projects.

Not to mention though, there are some difficulties with a business case for a UWA-QEII-CBD route stacking up. Any potential viable route is likely to be one that incorporates parts of Subiaco and West Perth, however, for the bulk of patronage which would come from QEII and UWA, this would be far slower than the current bus services. Similar problem to the MAX proposal. There's no way that the cost of providing a direct light rail route to the CBD via Mounts Bay Rd could be justified given it would serve virtually no catchment in between QEII/UWA and the CBD. In the meantime, new public transport links are intended to provide relief to the busiest of services along these corridors anyway, such as new route 96 which will provide significant travel time savings to Joondalup Line passengers heading for West Perth, QEII and UWA and provide relief to route 950. Heck, even a Canning Bridge to UWA ferry service may become more viable sooner than Light Rail! Will be interesting to see what they come up with nevertheless.
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Re: PERTH TRAMS TO RETURN

Postby Newcastle Flyer » Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:05 pm

As others have said "COULD"

Is their an election shortly in WA?
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Re: PERTH TRAMS TO RETURN

Postby Bus Suggestions » Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:50 pm

Our last election was 2 years ago now - the 'landslide' win of the 2017 election for the McGowan Labor government - meaning the next election is on track for 2021.
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Re: PERTH TRAMS TO RETURN

Postby TP1462 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:36 pm

The Kwinana freeway/Forrest highway does allow for the continuation of the dual track line south of Thomas road in Kwinana to about Eaton Drive in Eaton as part of a more direct service however south of Eaton Drive would require tunnelling or extensive road upgrades to cater for the railway line south of Eaton Drive part of the long term transport strategy includes realigning the freight railway into the future Tonkin freeway reservation which will allow for the current Australind service to be upgraded for higher speeds and more daily services


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Re: PERTH TRAMS TO RETURN

Postby tonyp » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:13 am

Merc1107 wrote:Another issue with linking Universities is the seasonal demand they generate. Compare the 950, 960 or Circles during the uni semester and during the break - big difference! There are parts of that journey (CBD-QE2) that seem like they'd be busy, but isn't the point of a tram that they're busy along almost the entirety of the route?

The tram wouldn't necessarily be for people just riding end to end. Most patronage would be in segments along the route. Some would just be riding the Curtin-CBD or UWA-QE2-CBD segment like they do now, or some would be riding across those two segments and thus would not have to change services mid point. At this stage of potential patronage levels you could probably provide such a service with articulated buses.

My preferred corridor for a tram would be along Wellington St (because it passes Perth Station and the Busport), Roberts to Subiaco then Rokeby down to Thomas. You'd be wiping a huge lot of on-street parking in that process - politically you can get away with that in Sydney, dunno about Perth!

I always see it as a weak point in Perth bus services that so many go via Elizabeth Quay, resulting in a change being required to get to the focal point from which all train services radiate - Perth Station. Running the tram along Wellington would overcome that.
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Re: PERTH TRAMS TO RETURN

Postby actually » Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:01 pm

Its a pity it’s not already along way past the planning stage. I don’t understand how 2 billion dollars can be spent in Canberra to service a population of 400,000 people with only a small percentage of that who it actually really services??
I’m sure I’ll be long dead and buried before any tram service starts again in Perth.
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