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Mill St exit layout at Esplanade Busport

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Mill St exit layout at Esplanade Busport

Postby Perth Jaywalker » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:10 pm

The layout at the Mill St exit is being changed. The bus lanes have been swapped so that the two exiting lanes are on the left, presumably to get rid of the crossover.

However this means that the bit marked with ? below is now being used by buses going in both directions. This arrangement can't be permanent, so does anyone know what will happen or if there will be any corresponding stand changes?

Esplanade Mill St layout.JPG
Esplanade Busport Mill St layout
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Re: Mill St exit layout at Esplanade Busport

Postby Merc1107 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:52 pm

I had thought the intention here might be to allow buses heading out along The Esplanade & Mounts Bay Road to get on the road without being held up by traffic lights (i.e. via a merging arrangement). Apparently not.

Was present at EQBS for a time this afternoon, and noted the Security Officers were marshaling traffic at the "?" point on your map. Basically, buses that need to use A-road or the outer road to reposition from B, C, D and E roads need to stop and check from traffic before turning onto A-road, or continuing onto the adjoining road.

A couple of issues I can already foresee:
- The stop line is too far forward. If a bus is parked on the last stand of A-road (laying over), the bus turning left onto A-road will possibly have to swing out too far and risk hitting a bus waiting to make a right turn.
- The room leftover at EQBS is (realistically) too narrow to allow two lanes of buses queued up, and buses waiting to turn in force their way in, and block up the whole system... Which is really no difference to the usual scenario, I guess. Removing the layover space along the Eastern wall of the Adina would help, but layover space is already at a premium at EQBS

No idea if this is permanent, or a trial to figure out the better layout. Given the way EQBS is setup, buses have to loop around to reposition for their next run or even to exit the busport (via the Freeway or William St.).
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Re: Mill St exit layout at Esplanade Busport

Postby Perth Jaywalker » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:32 pm

Nah there are too many legs of traffic which conflict with the exiting buses at those lights (cars going in/out of Adina/Exhibition centre, pedestrians, and since 2014/15 westbound traffic along Mounts Bay Rd, which google maps has incorrectly labelled The Esplanade).

Even after the lane swap I still think it makes more sense for the repositioning buses to have right of way over the incoming buses, but either way it's awkward.
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Re: Mill St exit layout at Esplanade Busport

Postby Off The Rails » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:34 am

Why fix it if it ain't broken? Yes, the original had issues, but I've heard this has turned to a s*itfest now.

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Re: Mill St exit layout at Esplanade Busport

Postby goroundandround » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:41 pm

The previous arrangement used to work fine _if_ everyone did the right thing (Mill St buses kept left, everyone stopped to allow Mill St entries to get it, etc.)

There's not really any way to avoid that cross-over point (short of traffic lights, maybe) as any bus going to any other exit (or just to a layover stand) goes through there.
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Re: Mill St exit layout at Esplanade Busport

Postby Perth Jaywalker » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:18 pm

Layout as of today as viewed from footbridge stairwell (higher quality versions available upon request). Unfortunately noon isn't a very good time to take pictures there as sunlight vs shadow makes road markings hard to see.

1 cars length worth of layover space at the Adina wall has been sacrificed. Marshalling officers are still present to direct drivers who are still used to swinging the bus to the right as they enter via the Mill St lights.

Busport Mill St 2.jpg
Mill St exit layout


Busport Mill St 3.jpg
Officer
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Re: Mill St exit layout at Esplanade Busport

Postby busdriver12 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:13 pm

I ran a 179 from there last night and was glad to see the two exit lanes have been preserved. Just like any change, it will take a bit of getting used to and after 6 months will wonder what all the fuss was about :)
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Re: Mill St exit layout at Esplanade Busport

Postby Mr OC Benz » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:35 pm

With this change, does that mean that they have potentially reduced one to two phases of the traffic lights cycle? Do the road dimensions actually allow for buses turning to/from Mill St to be in the same phase? Could be just the perception, but it doesn't look like there's enough room for buses turning from Mill St into the bus lane to do so without intruding into the bus lane heading the opposite direction?

I at least presume that was one of the motives for the change if it reduced the number of phases in the lights cycle given previously, buses could not both enter and exit during the same phase due to the criss-crossing required.
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Re: Mill St exit layout at Esplanade Busport

Postby goroundandround » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:12 pm

Mr OC Benz wrote:With this change, does that mean that they have potentially reduced one to two phases of the traffic lights cycle? Do the road dimensions actually allow for buses turning to/from Mill St to be in the same phase? Could be just the perception, but it doesn't look like there's enough room for buses turning from Mill St into the bus lane to do so without intruding into the bus lane heading the opposite direction?

I at least presume that was one of the motives for the change if it reduced the number of phases in the lights cycle given previously, buses could not both enter and exit during the same phase due to the criss-crossing required.


Might've been nice, but it isn't happening and really won't work. Incoming buses need to go quite wide to enter the single entrance lane and go well into the exiting buses' right turn lane. (Buses running the amber light coming into the Station routinely delay buses leaving for a few (precious!) seconds, in fact.)
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Re: Mill St exit layout at Esplanade Busport

Postby Perth Jaywalker » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:33 pm

Mr OC Benz wrote:With this change, does that mean that they have potentially reduced one to two phases of the traffic lights cycle? Do the road dimensions actually allow for buses turning to/from Mill St to be in the same phase? Could be just the perception, but it doesn't look like there's enough room for buses turning from Mill St into the bus lane to do so without intruding into the bus lane heading the opposite direction?

I at least presume that was one of the motives for the change if it reduced the number of phases in the lights cycle given previously, buses could not both enter and exit during the same phase due to the criss-crossing required.


Even if the dimensions allowed for simultaneous bus movements, cars are still entering the Adina drop-off area and the Convention Centre car park during the same green phase as the entering buses.

But in terms of the internal crossovers, the layout change has made an improvement. Entering buses now only crossover with re-positioning/William St exiting buses, whereas previously they crossovered with Mill St/Mounts Bay road exiting buses as well.
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Re: Mill St exit layout at Esplanade Busport

Postby Merc1107 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:03 pm

Perth Jaywalker wrote:But in terms of the internal crossovers, the layout change has made an improvement. Entering buses now only crossover with re-positioning/William St exiting buses, whereas previously they crossovered with Mill St/Mounts Bay road exiting buses as well.
The feedback I've heard is not so great. Having watched things play out from both C and A roads recently, I can only reiterate what I said in my previous post:
- There is a chance of head-on collision, particularly if a bus lays-over in the last stand of A-road, and another bus is waiting to cross-over. The bus entering A-road may have to swing out too far.
- Particularly in peak periods, the light cycles are not favourable to traffic leaving the busport. It was not uncommon during my period of observation to note drivers "forcing" their way into the queue, thus blocking buses using William St. and the Freeway from exiting.

On the subject of light cycles, it is all too often the case one sees the Bus Priority signals at the William St./Freeway exit not giving buses any priority. If several buses waiting to leave via the Freeway queue up, no William St. services can exit. It is evident that things worked differently in the recent past (post two-way streets), and allowed Freeway buses to leave independtly of those leaving via William St. Such a setup needs to be considered once again.
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Re: Mill St exit layout at Esplanade Busport

Postby Perth Jaywalker » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:31 pm

The stop lines have now been redone, and the incoming buses stop for the repositioning/freeway/William St buses. Of course, if a bus entering the A road forces its way in, then the potential for head-on collision described by Merc1107 still remains.
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