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PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby the c man » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:46 pm

Ive been told that Aubion grove is set to open on 23rd April
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby tonyp » Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:12 am

I have a couple of other observations as a visitor. (Easier to spot minor flaws when everything is otherwise so excellent - in Sydney there are so many major issues to deal with you tend to overlook the minor!)

Unless I'm mistaken, most buses only have a destination/ route number display on the front and none on the side nor the route number on the rear. Yes I know you're supposed to be at the bus stop early, but the front isn't the only direction you can approach a bus from. Thus has been standard stuff for bus operations anywhere for generations. Im surprised it's overlooked in a system that otherwise gives so much attention to fine details.

I'm sorry, tried as I have I can't comprehend the timetable numbering system where timetables have a number different from the route numbers. I was riffling through the racks at Fremantle station yesterday trying unsuccessfully to find a tt for a particular route and it wasn't till I got back to the hotel that I read a tt guide among all the pamphlets that gave the tt number and I had to go back to the station to get it. If there's a good reason for tt numbers I'd be glad to hear it but for a visitor it introduces a layer of illegibility. Not everybody has "local knowledge".

Finally, on the subject of local knowledge, a visitor should not have to walk the entire lengths of all three bus platforms at Fremantle station to locate the bus stop for their route! There should be a map or guide at the head of the platforms/ station exit to help you on your way. It may have been the same situation at Victoria Park but I can't quite recall now. At least there was a scrolling next bus display there that I guess deals with the issue.

PS a question. What's the patronage of the 950? Either in passengers per annum or average per day including weekends.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby Mr OC Benz » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:21 am

tonyp wrote:Unless I'm mistaken, most buses only have a destination/ route number display on the front and none on the side nor the route number on the rear. Yes I know you're supposed to be at the bus stop early, but the front isn't the only direction you can approach a bus from. Thus has been standard stuff for bus operations anywhere for generations. Im surprised it's overlooked in a system that otherwise gives so much attention to fine details.

You're mistaking Perth for Brisbane! :lol: With the exception of some older buses, all new buses are specified with destination and number displays on the front and side and route number displays on the rear.

tonyp wrote:I'm sorry, tried as I have I can't comprehend the timetable numbering system where timetables have a number different from the route numbers. I was riffling through the racks at Fremantle station yesterday trying unsuccessfully to find a tt for a particular route and it wasn't till I got back to the hotel that I read a tt guide among all the pamphlets that gave the tt number and I had to go back to the station to get it. If there's a good reason for tt numbers I'd be glad to hear it but for a visitor it introduces a layer of illegibility. Not everybody has "local knowledge".

Common complaint from interstaters and one I agree with. If there does need to be some sort of timetable numbering system, the numbers shouldn't have to be so large that they appear more important than the actual routes contained within! Timetable provision is excellent, on buses, at stations etc, but if you don't know what you're looking for, it can be a pain.

tonyp wrote:Finally, on the subject of local knowledge, a visitor should not have to walk the entire lengths of all three bus platforms at Fremantle station to locate the bus stop for their route! There should be a map or guide at the head of the platforms/ station exit to help you on your way. It may have been the same situation at Victoria Park but I can't quite recall now. At least there was a scrolling next bus display there that I guess deals with the issue.

Every bus/train station has all of this information available near or in the station forecourt/entrance area. Admittedly, the Fremantle ones despite being at the entrance are located inside the heritage building in an area not so openly visible, so I can see how people may miss this.

tonyp wrote:PS a question. What's the patronage of the 950? Either in passengers per annum or average per day including weekends.

The only figure floating around is a weekday average which was 18,000 per day as of around mid-2016 and most definitely increased further since then. The biggest increase in loadings was in night and weekend travel and given the frequencies it operates at (bearing in mind that due to the shear number of trips in peak hour, not all are shown in the public timetable), services are generally well patronised at all times of the day (and night).
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby tonyp » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:33 am

Yes my fault. I went out this morning and noted that the side destination displays are near the front door, often low down and with shocking legibility with the glass in front of them, poorly lit and then dealing with Perth's bright sunlight on top of that. No wonder I didn't notice them! I also expect to see side destos high up and around the centre of the bus. A bit of a poor show there.

I'm standing in the foyer of Fremantle station right now and I'm familiar with all the information displayed. However I only just discovered the route stand list and it's a poky little piece buried in one corner of one board. It should be a big in-your-face display. Alternatively an electronic next bus guide like Victoria Park.

Perhaps I should send all these suggestions along to TransPerth or do they follow this forum?

It sounds like I'm developing into a severe critic now but I'm not! It's all just fantastic overall.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby Mr OC Benz » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:43 am

New buses have the side desto signs higher up now. I was actually caught out the other week trying to find the same stand information at another station. It seems to of shrunk even more to the corner of the board compared with previous versions! They probably read through this, but worth sending your suggestions anyway. The electronic signs are slowly being rolled out to the suburban bus stations now, but have been in place at the central ones for some time now.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby Merc1107 » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:33 am

*Late Response, as the forum balked about 3hrs ago when I first tried posting this*

All the new buses do have rear route-number displays, as they always have. As well as a full-size side destination board.
If you've been traveling on the few Renault artics left in service, many of them seem to have a non-functional rear route-number display... Some have the Mobitec LED replacement (Orange), others have the original S-T-C Canon flip-dot, finally some have had the rear destination removed.
In many cases, they're simply not used, for whatever reason.

tonyp wrote:I'm sorry, tried as I have I can't comprehend the timetable numbering system where timetables have a number different from the route numbers.
You'll be concerned to know that our timetables until very recently were colour-coded based on the approximate area they served (i.e. the vicinity to a specific passenger railway line. So buses near Fremantle were coloured Blue, feeders along the Mandurah line orange and so on).

I'm not sure if they're still labelled as, "Northern," "Southern," "Eastern," "Western," "South-Western," "South-Eastern" or not.

I don't know that printing timetables and classifying by route number would work great, either. The whole numbering regime seems like its designed to show service for as specific area. Hopefully another member can clarify that for me, too! :D

* Later *
I've certainly not had any issue reading the side displays of buses, the green isn't perfect, but generally seems quite visible to me, at least. Part of the issue could be failing (or very faded) displays, which comes with age.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby tonyp » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:38 am

I can see now that the newer buses have the high-mounted, brighter side display just behind the front door, typical of Australian front-entry buses. I think a better, more international approach would be to still have it between the front and centre door but a little more biased towards the centre door, with a repeat display after the first door of the trailer on an artic. This would make the information more visible to people approaching the bus from the side and rear.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby Shoudy Chen » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:52 pm

Saw 2397 doing 999 parked at Curtin Uni Bus Station.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby tonyp » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:10 pm

I had a look at the Perth busport, very impressive. However I was a bit surprised at the physical separation from the railway station. Is there going to be a direct underground link?
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby sylar » Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:05 pm

tonyp wrote:I had a look at the Perth busport, very impressive. However I was a bit surprised at the physical separation from the railway station. Is there going to be a direct underground link?


No there will be no underground tunnel between the two stations however once the Yagan Square development (the construction site west of the horseshoe bridge) is complete access between the two stations will be more direct above ground.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby tonyp » Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:45 pm

Merc1107 wrote:Should the driver have deployed the ramp? Maybe. But it would hold up other passengers disembarking, and having to make connections. Its quite annoying the rear doors seemingly cannot be opened as the ramp deploys.

I saw a good example today as a 998 pulled into the stop in the single lane Market St Fremantle.

The bus remained stopped with the doors shut for a puzzling length of time while a queue of sevèral cars and a garbage truck built up behind it (not that we need to worry about delaying cars). The reason became obvious as I saw the ramp emerge and then the centre door opened, releasing a mass of people who'd been stuck inside waiting!

Next thing a young lady with a baby stroller emerged on the ramp. She could have easily managed it if the bus was just kneeled. In Europe the buses kneel along the whole nearside so you get easy access through the centre door too. Not sure if Perth buses have this.

The dwell was at least a good minute, not only holding up the bus schedule but plugging up Market St pretty effectively as well. If you were on the bus hoping to connect with a train at the next stop you'd be having kittens. I'm reluctant to criticise such pleasant politeness but it has practical limits!
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby Mr OC Benz » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:49 pm

And that is the sort of example that happens all too often and the core reason why I don't agree with the policy. Especially annoying at interchanges where tight connections (2-4 mins IF on time) need to be made. Luckily if it's a bus-bus connection, drivers are kind enough to wait. Trains won't though!

I do believe that the rear door can actually be opened while the front ramp is being deployed as I have seen it on several occasions and it is great when it does happen. This may only be limited to certain bus models however and as such, drivers may not be trained to, or realise that they are able to do this on certain types. Either that or perhaps it's just a coincidence that every bus that has done it is therefore considered defective? I'm sure some of the drivers on here would have a much better idea.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby Merc1107 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:59 pm

tonyp wrote:The dwell was at least a good minute, not only holding up the bus schedule but plugging up Market St pretty effectively as well. If you were on the bus hoping to connect with a train at the next stop you'd be having kittens.
Cars and garbage trucks aren't as big of a concern... But the numerous bus routes that converge along Market St. would all be delayed significantly because of cars and service vehicles banking up. That street is enough of a disaster when several buses run along it in procession, so having it banked up would be far worse.

Delayed buses mean a flow-on effect to further running on a Driver's shift that could cause issues with particularly tight runs. Passengers miss bus connections at the Interchange, train connections and so on.

With this sort of over-use of the ramps, I'd almost be advocating manual ramps... Alas, the "entitled bunch" would probably hold up the service to use this, too.

Meanwhile, I've only seen maybe two ramp deployments in Darwin in the two months I've been here. Plenty of people here have dolleys, strollers and prams.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby tonyp » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:28 pm

Merc1107 wrote:Cars and garbage trucks aren't as big of a concern... But the numerous bus routes that converge along Market St. would all be delayed significantly because of cars and service vehicles banking up. That street is enough of a disaster when several buses run along it in procession, so having it banked up would be far worse.
.

On this occasion there weren't any following buses but, yes if there was the usual string of them they would have all been held up.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby TP1173 » Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:49 pm

tonyp wrote:She could have easily managed it if the bus was just


Correct me if I'm wrong but the Market St stops are at road level. There isn't even a kerb. So it can be quite a steep drop?

I've found with the upgrade of stops across Perth to be disability friendly, many drivers have stopped deploying ramps as there is no long such a steep drop with the higher kerb.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby tonyp » Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:38 am

Market St Fremantle has kerbs.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby pasha241 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:52 pm

SWan has change their desto of 'NOT IN SERVICE' to 'Not In Service' like what path and transdev use. Saw it 16xx pass with new desto at Albany highway. first thought it was WP bus but that was SR Bus. which mean all operator desto use same Capital letter
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby Lt. Commander Data » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:00 pm

That's slightly ironic. Here in Adelaide, Torrens Transit (sWAn's sister company) have used the lower case "Not In Service", whereas SouthLink (Path Transit's sister) have used the all caps "NOT IN SERVICE". Peronsally, I think the lower case version is nicer and easier to read.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby busdriver12 » Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:05 pm

Lt. Commander Data wrote: Peronsally, I think the lower case version is nicer and easier to read.


What you all need to bear in mind is that the main target audience are those with visual impairments. It matter not if it looks sexy for a gunzel, they have to be able to make out what the destination is actually saying at a reasonable distance.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby TP1462 » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:06 pm

pasha241 wrote:SWan has change their desto of 'NOT IN SERVICE' to 'Not In Service' like what path and transdev use. Saw it 16xx pass with new desto at Albany highway. first thought it was WP bus but that was SR Bus. which mean all operator desto use same Capital letter


It's a PTA thing they want uniformity between the buses and trains they've even changed the font on the A series EMUs from all capital to match with the buses and the B series EMUs


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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby >formerWSBS< » Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:02 pm

Sighted 2733, 2734, 2735 all in service at Morley B/S yesterday around 5:30pm on 998/999 an other Morley runs.
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby TP1462 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:52 pm

1604 back from refurb


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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby Shoudy Chen » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:46 pm

1288 Refurbished
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby Merc & Renault Bus_1 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:48 pm

Shoudy Chen wrote:1288 Refurbished


So are 1294 and 1276

The only pre 2007 Fremantle OC Gas buses that aren't refurbished are:

1284, 1286?, 1291, 1292, 1293, 1298 and 1900-1909
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Re: PTA / Transperth & Private Observations - Jan/Feb 2017

Postby Merc1107 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:28 pm

Merc & Renault Bus_1 wrote:1900-1909

Throw some of the later Fremantle 19xx's in there too. Most of those were delivered with the revised "black handled" seats, but still carry their original livery & paintjob.
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