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Closed Fremantle Line Stations

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Closed Fremantle Line Stations

Postby Merc1107 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:56 pm

I imagine everyone is well aware of the old stops south of Fremantle at The Esplanade (i.e. Cicerellos), Success Harbour and South Beach stations - all of which do still exist, but are simply barred from public access.

Hypothetically, if this part of the line were electrified and reopened for public transit - would it be of any benefit to the public, say in regards to increasing access to Fremantle's Cafe and Restaurant strip?

Seems a shame for these stations to be standing around doing nothing. I'm not even sure freight trains pass through this area anymore, although the signalling is still there at a "Water Noise Suppression Trial" is fitted

There was (according to Wiki...) a Robbs Jetty, Spearwood, Coogee and Kwinana stations, all of which have been demolished and track lifted in their past areas.
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Re: Closed Fremantle Line Stations

Postby 102 at 1625 » Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:52 am

Freight trains still use the line. I think that the PTA controlled signalling runs until just before The Esplanade, after which you need a train order through to Robb Jetty.

Personally, I struggle to see how the line could ever be reopened to passengers. The coastal section is single track, mostly in a reserve too narrow to allow duplication of the line without acquisition of a great deal of land. If the line simply electrified and operated as single track, the bottleneck created would affect reliability (especially with passenger trains sharing the line with freight trains) and restrict frequency to the point where the service would not be particularly useful.

Plus if the line was electrified they'd have to upgrade the fencing which would ruin the character of the area around The Esplanade.

But I agree that it does seem quite a waste to have those stations, especially the well-located one adjacent Fishing Boat Harbour, sitting there, out of use.
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Re: Closed Fremantle Line Stations

Postby Zidanehartono » Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:07 am

Merc1107 wrote:I imagine everyone is well aware of the old stops south of Fremantle at The Esplanade (i.e. Cicerellos), Success Harbour and South Beach stations - all of which do still exist, but are simply barred from public access.

Hypothetically, if this part of the line were electrified and reopened for public transit - would it be of any benefit to the public, say in regards to increasing access to Fremantle's Cafe and Restaurant strip?

Seems a shame for these stations to be standing around doing nothing. I'm not even sure freight trains pass through this area anymore, although the signalling is still there at a "Water Noise Suppression Trial" is fitted

There was (according to Wiki...) a Robbs Jetty, Spearwood, Coogee and Kwinana stations, all of which have been demolished and track lifted in their past areas.


Well,when i went to eat fish n chips.I remember that there was a station near the ferries wheel and The Esplanade Park.Which was at Mews Rd.If i'm eating there again,i will see what i can do.
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Re: Closed Fremantle Line Stations

Postby Leyland B21 » Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:31 pm

These stations were quickly propped up for the Americas Cup in the 80s. Only use they actually saw. Pity really
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Re: Closed Fremantle Line Stations

Postby Shoudy Chen » Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:02 pm

The thing about extending the Fremantle Line all the way to South Fremantle is that it would provide A good service. How about make it a dual line from Fremantle all the way to South Fremantle.
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Re: Closed Fremantle Line Stations

Postby theenglishguy » Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:59 pm

Shoudy Chen wrote:The thing about extending the Fremantle Line all the way to South Fremantle is that it would provide A good service. How about make it a dual line from Fremantle all the way to South Fremantle.


It's a great idea in theory, but it's not that straight-forward - there isn't room for two dual-gauge tracks between Fremantle and South Fremantle.

It would be possible to have two narrow gauge tracks (like they did in the 80s), but the port really needs to have standard gauge rail access. The right-of-way can't be widened, so the only option would be to tunnel - and that would be expensive.
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Re: Closed Fremantle Line Stations

Postby Lt. Commander Data » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:37 pm

theenglishguy wrote:
Shoudy Chen wrote:The thing about extending the Fremantle Line all the way to South Fremantle is that it would provide A good service. How about make it a dual line from Fremantle all the way to South Fremantle.


It's a great idea in theory, but it's not that straight-forward - there isn't room for two dual-gauge tracks between Fremantle and South Fremantle.

It would be possible to have two narrow gauge tracks (like they did in the 80s), but the port really needs to have standard gauge rail access. The right-of-way can't be widened, so the only option would be to tunnel - and that would be expensive.


Would there be enough room for 1 narrow guage and one dual guage (narrow and standard)? I'm sure the Outer Harbor Line in Adelaide is dual guage for part of its length.
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Re: Closed Fremantle Line Stations

Postby Merc & Renault Bus_1 » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:54 pm

No, there wouldn't be enough room to put a narrow gauge in, if we were to electrify the line, we need to have a minimum required clearance (I don't know the exact figure) from the fence to the tracks, and there is no room to put a narrow gauge in if the area (from Fremantle to South Beach) was to be electrified.
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Re: Closed Fremantle Line Stations

Postby Mr OC Benz » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:27 pm

I think an extension of the Fremantle Line is a project for the long term. There are problems with the railway reserve not being sufficient, plus dealing with freight movements etc. They can be managed, however I certainly wouldn't consider such an extension as priority when there are other transport projects that need to be commenced sooner.

Assuming that operations will fully relocate to a new container port in Kwinana in the future, then that would present a good opportunity to use the line for passenger service. Until then, freight movements on rail is probably going to increase (although only to a limited extent) and to combine passenger rail movements would not be ideal. There are also other problems such as if the line does get used for passenger rail, it is going to significantly impact on the local environment and will more or less isolate the beach and cafe/restaurant precinct from the rest of Fremantle and impact on the amenity of the West End heritage precinct. Considering the objective is to do the opposite (think Perth, Subiaco etc), it would certainly not have any chance of happening using the existing reservation through Fremantle CBD.
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Re: Closed Fremantle Line Stations

Postby Leyland B21 » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:48 pm

Suppose for a moment as a thought. Fremantle Harbour being a tourist hotspot especially on weekends. Surely it wouldn't take much to electrify the section to Sth Fremantle Beach. You could extend every second train from Fremantle to Sth Freo from say 6pm Fridays until 9pm Sunday. This may mean an extra train on the line may be required but I feel there is potential. Especially from September through March.
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Re: Closed Fremantle Line Stations

Postby The Phonj » Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:45 pm

Lt. Commander Data wrote:
theenglishguy wrote:It's a great idea in theory, but it's not that straight-forward - there isn't room for two dual-gauge tracks between Fremantle and South Fremantle.

It would be possible to have two narrow gauge tracks (like they did in the 80s), but the port really needs to have standard gauge rail access. The right-of-way can't be widened, so the only option would be to tunnel - and that would be expensive.


Would there be enough room for 1 narrow guage and one dual guage (narrow and standard)? I'm sure the Outer Harbor Line in Adelaide is dual guage for part of its length.


Apologies to the sandgropers for interjecting here, but while the Outer Harbor railway line was dual gauge from Glanville station to Port Junction (under the Grand Junction Rd Bridge) on both 'up' and 'down' tracks, the standard gauge line was rerouted over the Port River to its current location just north of the Tom "Diver" Derrick Bridge. The standard gauge on the Outer Harbor line trackage was later removed, possibly in conjunction with the rebuilding of the Commercial Rd viaduct in 2009/2010.

A further thing to consider is that the Adelaide suburban broad gauge tracks of 1600mm are more easily to accommodate the standard gauge of 1435mm than the narrow gauge of 1067mm as used in Western Australia and Queensland. Having one mixed gauge track and one narrow gauge track would create operational difficulties, the exact reason that the Belair line has two parallel tracks - one broad for suburban services and one standard for interstate services. Originally, dual broad gauge tracks traversed this corridor.
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Re: Closed Fremantle Line Stations

Postby Off The Rails » Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:17 pm

The line between Freo and those disused stations are duel gauge, as the CSR Class locomotives from SCT are standard gauge.

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Re: Closed Fremantle Line Stations

Postby Bus-1809 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:19 pm

I've often said that Electrifying that section of track and operating those stations, even if only after hours and on weekends, would be beneficial to the PTA. Even if only the Esplanade Station was used on Weeknights and the others used on Weekends, with say a 30 min frequency, so that not all trains are stopping there.
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Re: Closed Fremantle Line Stations

Postby theenglishguy » Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:49 am

I disagree. Whilst it would be great for the Fremantle line to service the Esplanade area, there would just be too many issues.

Transperth run a great system that is doubled tracked (except a short section of the Thornlie Line) and generally segregated from freight services. It means they can provide a simple, reliable and frequent service that is widely used and highly regarded. Extending the Fremantle line to Esplanade would go against all of this - it would impact significantly on the reliability of the Fremantle/Midland line and would be infrequent.

A far better use of money would be getting the Department of Transport to undertake a feasibility study on the construction of a new rail tunnel under Fremantle. It could look at providing for future passenger and freight services in the area - personally I would definitely like to see the Fremantle line extended to Port Coogee eventually.
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Re: Closed Fremantle Line Stations

Postby os91 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:44 am

Demolition of the disued South Beach, Success Harbour and The Esplanade Station Platforms will commence soon:

http://www.pta.wa.gov.au/projects/curre ... emolitions
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Re: Closed Fremantle Line Stations

Postby tonyp » Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:17 am

os91 wrote:Demolition of the disued South Beach, Success Harbour and The Esplanade Station Platforms will commence soon:

http://www.pta.wa.gov.au/projects/curre ... emolitions

Well that's certainly a thread-busting post! :lol:

There is such a big movement of tourist/recreational activity between Fremantle town and its waterfront, I think any notion of putting an electric passenger service through here would make the existing "barrier" even worse. The desirable urban objective here would be to remove the line altogether to open up access to and from the waterfront. Undergrounding would be necessary in order to reinstate a passenger service, though an undergrounded freight service would have problems with its diesel locomotives.
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Re: Closed Fremantle Line Stations

Postby Merc1107 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:37 pm

Whilst not something that has come up in this thread (and is likely off-topic), people need to realise Fremantle and its Port have existed long before all this tourism and "building apartments next to the railway line" business begun.

No one wants the Roe Highway extensions because they're supposedly a "road to nowhere," and are damaging wetlands. No one wants freight to use the freight-lines because of the noise. The whole idea of an Outer-Harbour is a ridiculous waste of money that won't be needed for at least several decades, and was drummed up by the current Government as a "solution" to upgrading the road network. It comes with its own environmental pitfalls, too.

It all reeks of the type of nonsense that happens with airports, gradually suburbia encroaches and suddenly it's the airport's fault for being there, not the people who bought houses underneath a busy approach/departure path.

tonyp wrote:Well that's certainly a thread-busting post!
Indeed! :lol:
I think what will need to happen in time is some sort of bi-directional CAT-type service to create a quicker journey for people, and/or some suburban services returned to Marine Tce.
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Re: Closed Fremantle Line Stations

Postby boronia » Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:53 pm

tonyp wrote:
os91 wrote:Demolition of the disued South Beach, Success Harbour and The Esplanade Station Platforms will commence soon:

http://www.pta.wa.gov.au/projects/curre ... emolitions

Well that's certainly a thread-busting post! :lol:

There is such a big movement of tourist/recreational activity between Fremantle town and its waterfront, I think any notion of putting an electric passenger service through here would make the existing "barrier" even worse. The desirable urban objective here would be to remove the line altogether to open up access to and from the waterfront. Undergrounding would be necessary in order to reinstate a passenger service, though an undergrounded freight service would have problems with its diesel locomotives.


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Re: Closed Fremantle Line Stations

Postby tonyp » Sat Sep 01, 2018 5:03 pm

Not really, the freight line will be there for the indefinite future, but it's pretty lôw impact compared to the Newcastle line - single track, no wires, low fences, pedestrian crossings and a train maybe once a day at night. As it is, it's not a great problem, but a dual track electric line with regular trains would be. Incidentally, the Blue CAT gets you to South Fremantle pretty-much along the same corridor.
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Re: Closed Fremantle Line Stations

Postby os91 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:13 pm

tonyp wrote:Well that's certainly a thread-busting post! :lol:

Yes! It does seem like a wasted opportunity that those stations weren't ever properly integrated into the train system.

Perhaps in the future that freight line could be used as a corridor for a tram line. Trams might not be as obtrusive as a train line - for example they can be used in malls etc.

On a side note, why were those stations ever built? I know that it was for the America's cup back in the 80s, but it seems extremely short-sited to build so many stations that would only be used for such a short period of time.
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Re: Closed Fremantle Line Stations

Postby Leyland B21 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:30 pm

We seem to forget. Unless things have changed in last 16 years since I moved from Perth to Melbourne, the line is dual narrow and standard gauge. Required for freight movements to Leighton Yards onto Port of Freo. If the line is removed, it's more trucks coming into the area which everyone locally is against.

Catch 22 scenario.

The stations were purposely built for America's Cup in 1987 then not used since. Wasted taxpayer funds. I firmly believe it should have been electrified when Freo Line was electrified in early 90s and utilised on weekends with every second train terminating at South Beach.

However the powers that be which was the liberal government after the Burke led Government in line with the WA INC fiasco did not invest in transport related issues and did not put on the table something that would have added extra benefit to the Freo Tourism side.

It has bothered me for a long time. Prior to 1987 Fremantle was a dark dingy scary place to be visiting more so when the sun went down. So much was invested and regardless of the shonky dealings, we quickly forget how much Alan Bond and John Elliott (Elders IXL owner at the time) put into Freo out of their own funds to make Freo what it is today more than the government at the time put in.

I believe demolition of the stations now has to be done due to not being utilised and being too much cost to fix.

In a nutshell, wasted opportunity to capitalise on an area such as the fishing boat harbour enticing international and national tourists as much as locals who love like I did utilizing the precinct.

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Re: Closed Fremantle Line Stations

Postby Off The Rails » Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:59 am

Things slightly changed (pedanticism here) - the container trains go directly through from the America's Cup stations to the Port, bypassing Leighton Yards (which, from memory, is slowly being pulled apart too).

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Re: Closed Fremantle Line Stations

Postby Merc1107 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:32 am

Off The Rails wrote:Things slightly changed (pedanticism here) - the container trains go directly through from the America's Cup stations to the Port, bypassing Leighton Yards (which, from memory, is slowly being pulled apart too).

You're right OTR; the old Leighton Yard control box (not sure of the correct lingo, I'm happy to be corrected) was in the process of demolition about 1-1.5 months ago when I drove past on Stirling Hwy working an earlyish 998. I wonder how long the footbridge will survive?
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Re: Closed Fremantle Line Stations

Postby Bus-1809 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:22 am

The footbridge provides access from Stirling Hwy to the Montessori School on the Cottesloe side of the line, so it should theoretically survive for a while yet, I reckon.
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Re: Closed Fremantle Line Stations

Postby TP1462 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:30 pm

There are plans to redevelop the entire 24 hectare site with oceanside apartments for 15,000 new residents and a new train station at McCabe street now some of the plans are probably nothing more than aspirational

http://www.rowegroup.com.au/news/why-not-north-leighton


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