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Next generation railcars for Transperth

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Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby Mr OC Benz » Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:30 pm

Early steps in preparation for the next generation of trains in Perth to be know as "C-series". A minimum of 50 six-car trains over a 10 year period which equates to 300 railcars. Currently there are 48 two-car A-series trains (96 railcars) and by the end of the delivery of the final B-series trains there will be 68 three-car trains (204 railcars). If the delivery commences around 2017/18 (after the completed delivery of final B-series), by the second half of the next decade, the railcar fleet will have doubled in size to 600 railcars.

PTA wrote:Government looks at next generation of railcars

Thursday, 21 August 2014
Request for Information (RFI) goes to market to scope suppliers for next generation of urban railcars
RFI will determine market’s capacity to supply next generation of railcars, to be known as the C-series
Existing $244million project to deliver 22 three-car trains is well advanced with four three-car sets already on Transperth network
The State Government is about to take the first formal steps to acquiring a new generation of trains.


Transport Minister Dean Nalder today announced the Public Transport Authority (PTA) would go to market with a Request for Information (RFI) about the new trains, which will double the size of the Transperth fleet. He said the RFI process was designed to gauge the level of interest from potential suppliers.

“This Government is taking the prudent and responsible step of going to the market to assess who could design, build, deliver and maintain the railcars,” Mr Nalder said.

“The RFI outlines the requirements for the next generation of trains for the Transperth network, to be known as the C-series. It outlines the scope of the project to deliver a minimum of 50 six-car trains over a 10-year period.

“Clearly this will be a huge contract, particularly because it will involve a long-term maintenance arrangement. The purpose of this RFI is to get an early indication of how many companies would be able to deliver such a large order of high-quality railcars.

“We are also keen to learn about recent advances in railcar design and technology that will ultimately make our future railcar fleet more efficient.”

The Minister said anticipated patronage growth on the Transperth network, coupled with the expansion of the network with exciting new projects such as the Forrestfield-Airport Link, were the driving force behind the RFI.

“This is very early days in this project. Once the PTA has received submissions, it will complete an evaluation for the Government to consider,” he said.

Fact File
RFI will gauge market interest to supply 50 six-car trains over a 10-year period
Builds on $244million investment in 22 three-car B-series railcars
Government will invest $1.9billion over the next four years in public transport infrastructure including the Forrestfield-Airport Link, Aubin Grove Station, Butler rail extension, Perth Busport and Edgewater multi-storey car park
Minister’s office - 6552 6400



http://www.mediastatements.wa.gov.au/pa ... tatId=8564
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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby TP1462 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:42 pm

Obviously platforms on the heritage lines will get lengthened to accommodate a 6car set
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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby TP1462 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:43 pm

That's also a MASSIVE increase to the train fleet
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Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby TP1462 » Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:39 pm

The RFI mentions 4 doors per carriage 144m length based off the existing B series fleet haven't read it in depth yet

Capable of running on all urban rail lines


High performance urban running top speed 130km/h


Deliveries will commence in 2018 completed in 2028 and should be able to carry up to 1150 passengers


It also includes a new rolling stock maintenance facility just for the C series a suitable location is yet to be determined
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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby TP1462 » Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:36 pm

TP1462 wrote:The RFI mentions 4 doors per carriage 144m length based off the existing B series fleet haven't read it in depth yet

Capable of running on all urban rail lines


High performance urban running top speed 130km/h


Deliveries will commence in 2018 completed in 2028 and should be able to carry up to 1150 passengers


It also includes a new rolling stock maintenance facility just for the C series a suitable location is yet to be determined



https://www.tenders.wa.gov.au/watenders ... A862EDD4C8

What the PTA are looking for as stated below


1.3.3 The following business requirements for the Project expand the business drivers stated above:

1) The specification shall enable open and competitive tendering.
2) The proposed railcars shall be proven to be suitable for supporting high performance metro/urban rail operations, at speeds of at least 130km/h with journey times to match the existing urban timetable across all PTA lines.
3) The proposed railcar set shall be of a length of approximately 144 metres, the maximum distance from the leading edge of the leading doorway to the trailing edge of the trailing doorway shall be approximately 135m.
4) The proposed railcars shall maintain or improve current overall levels of safety.
5) The proposed railcars shall provide a suitable, easily re-configurable passenger environment.
6) The proposed railcars shall provide a passenger carrying capacity in excess of 1150 persons, standing area is calculated in accordance with EN 15663 and loadings of 6 passengers/m2 are applied to vestibule areas and 4 passengers/m2 in all other areas of the cars.
7) The proposed railcars shall support quick turn round through fast system initialisation times when driving ends are changed
8) The proposed railcars shall support the reduction of station dwell times with double leaf door portals spaced at intervals no greater than 5.5m on each vehicle side (equivalent to 4 doors per side of a 24metre vehicle).
9) The proposed railcars shall be capable of rescue of/by the PTA existing Rolling Stock fleet.
10) The proposed railcars shall support future developments of the PTA network including the upgrading of signalling/train control and digital radio communication systems.
11) The proposed railcars shall provide high levels of availability and reliability to meet with PTA operating demands.
12) The proposed railcars shall provide train operators with decision support systems for easy recovery from railcar faults.
13) The proposed railcars shall allow services to continue in degraded modes, with graceful degradation in case of failures.
14) The proposed railcars shall provide dynamic passenger loading data to a centralised monitoring station.
15) The proposed railcars shall support the remote provision of information to customers about delays and subsequent service recovery.
16) The proposed railcars shall enable efficient use of energy resources.
17) The proposed railcars shall contribute to improving customer satisfaction for public rail transport in Perth.
18) The proposed railcars shall be designed to facilitate easy upgrade, expansion and change to accommodate future infrastructure extension and the addition of new stations on existing lines.
1.4 Project Assumptions and Requirements
1.3.4 The following assumptions and requirements provide guidance to planning of the Project:

1) The PTA will procure the railcars, depot upgrade, special tools, spares and other infrastructure as agreed to be required to support the new railcar fleet
2) Delivery of the railcars is required to commence in 2018 and continue through to 2028 at a minimum rate of 5 railcar sets per year
3) The PTA urban rail network will be available for the dynamic commissioning of the railcars outside of normal operating hours
4) A suitable area will be made available for the railcar maintenance facility in order to be ready for the delivery of the first of the new railcars
5) Maintenance of the railcars is included for a minimum 15 year term, the structure of the maintenance contract is to be agreed



Request for Information (RFI) goes to market to scope suppliers for next generation of urban railcars
RFI will determine market’s capacity to supply next generation of railcars, to be known as the C-series
Existing $244million project to deliver 22 three-car trains is well advanced with four three-car sets already on Transperth network

“The RFI outlines the requirements for the next generation of trains for the Transperth network, to be known as the C-series. It outlines the scope of the project to deliver a minimum of 50 six-car trains over a 10-year period.

“Clearly this will be a huge contract, particularly because it will involve a long-term maintenance arrangement. The purpose of this RFI is to get an early indication of how many companies would be able to deliver such a large order of high-quality railcars.


Fact File

RFI will gauge market interest to supply 50 six-car trains over a 10-year period
Builds on $244million investment in 22 three-car B-series railcars
Government will invest $1.9billion over the next four years in public transport infrastructure including the Forrestfield-Airport Link, Aubin Grove Station, Butler rail extension, Perth Busport and Edgewater multi-storey car park
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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby TP1462 » Thu May 14, 2015 5:09 pm

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western ... 7355192462


300 rail cars to be bought over next 10 years
First cars won’t be bought until 2019
No light rail funding until at least 2017-18
WA’s train fleet will be doubled over the next 10 years, with the Barnett Government announcing it will spend $500 million on new rail cars.

However, it wont happen until 2019, despite the state’s well-documented congestion woes.

Treasurer Mike Nahan said 300 C-series rail cars would be bought over the next decade, starting with a $1.2 billion spend in 2019.

Planning for the project will begin soon, with $5 million set aside for 2015-16.

There is no money in the budget for planning on the stalled MAX light rail project.
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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby 102 at 1625 » Thu May 14, 2015 8:13 pm

Plus (although not relevant to this thread) free travel for seniors will be extended to trips made before 6am and after 7pm. Source

Edit: And public transport costs to rise 2.4 per cent on a two-zone fare.
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Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby TP1462 » Thu May 14, 2015 8:54 pm

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western ... 7355192462

300 rail cars to be bought over next 10 years
First cars won’t be bought until 2019

WA’s train fleet will be doubled over the next 10 years, with the Barnett Government announcing it will spend $500 million on new rail cars.

Treasurer Mike Nahan said 300 C-series rail cars would be bought over the next decade, starting with a $1.2 billion spend in 2019.

The $1.2 billion investment includes money previously set aside as part of the Forrestfield-Airport Link project.

Planning for the rail car project will begin soon, with $5 million set aside for 2015-16.

Mr Nahan released a statement which said the new railcars would have four doors on either side.

Current railcars only have two doors on each side.

This $2 billion project is due to start in 2016.

Planning for the project will begin soon, with $5 million set aside for 2015-16.

the WA state budget also includes $104 million for an additional 7 3car B series trains on top of the 22 3car sets that are being delivered, 105 new buses

$2 billion on the underground Forrestfield Airport rail link,

Free transport between 7PM & 6AM for carers, pensioners & seniors

$105 million for an upgraded Russell road for the 2000 car park Aubin Grove station,

Free public transport between 12:30AM & 3:30AM on Saturday and Sunday mornings
Last edited by TP1462 on Sat May 16, 2015 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby PaxInfo » Thu May 14, 2015 8:55 pm

102 at 1625 wrote:Plus (although not relevant to this thread) free travel for seniors will be extended to trips made before 6am and after 7pm. Source


But seniors card eligibility will be tightened, with the eligibility age gradually rising to 65 http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western ... 7355219862

Returning nearer to topic, some figures from PTA http://static.ourstatebudget.wa.gov.au/ ... tralia.pdf
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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby Mr OC Benz » Mon May 18, 2015 11:32 am

PTA wrote:
Railcar order reaches halfway mark 18/05/2015
Newest train goes into service tomorrow on the Transperth network
11th railcar out of 22 in B-series delivered
Government commits $1.2 billion for the next generation of railcars - C-series

The newest train on Perth’s rail network starts service tomorrow, marking the halfway point in the State Government’s purchase of 22 B-series trains at a cost of $244 million.

The three-car train, which carries up to 600 passengers, is the 11th new train in the B-series.

Transport Minister Dean Nalder said once all 22 trains arrived, the Transperth railcar fleet would number 300, representing a 28 per cent increase in the fleet since 2011.

“Our focus is on providing people with a choice of travel so they can get to work, home and other destinations,” Mr Nalder said. “The State Government is investing heavily in roads, on cycle paths and in public transport as part of a co-ordinated approach to transport planning.”

Treasurer Mike Nahan said the commissioning of the new train coincided with this week’s State Budget announcement of $5 million in 2015-16 towards the planning and procurement of the next C-series of railcars, worth a total of $1.2 billion.

This will allow the Public Transport Authority to issue a closed tender to several proponents who responded to the request for information last year. The successful proponents will be asked to deliver 50 six-railcar trains, or 300 railcars, over 10 years, starting in 2019.

They will be constructed in a fixed six-railcar configuration, which increases passenger carrying capacity. The number of doors per railcar will be doubled to speed up passenger boarding and alighting, which will reduce waiting times at stations, making the whole network more efficient.

“We are also looking at ways to integrate technologies such as USB ports and wireless internet on services,” Mr Nalder said.


Fact File

The B-series trains travel on the busy Joondalup and Mandurah lines where they reach higher speeds and carry more passengers
State Budget allocated $104.4 million for 21 new railcars and 105 buses in 2015-16
The contract to design, build, deliver and maintain the C-series railcars is expected to be awarded in late 2016
Between 2008-09 and 2018-19, $15.1 billion will be spent on roads and public transport, including $2 billion for Forrestfield Airport Link
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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby Mr OC Benz » Thu May 28, 2015 12:01 pm

There is now a project page on the PTA website for the next generation trains.

$1.2 billion for next generation of Transperth trains, known as the C-series. 50 new trains over 10 years from 2019 to meet expected demand in growth by doubling the Transperth train fleet.

Differing from the current trains on the network, the C-Series will be designed to increase passenger capacity and make it faster and safer for passengers to get on and off the trains. This will be achieved by:

- A six-railcar configuration
- Up to four doors either side of each railcar (as opposed to two doors on the current railcars)
- Removal of the two intermediate driver cabs


Reducing the time a train is at a station will ultimately make the rail network more efficient.

The new C-Series trains will service the Joondalup and Mandurah lines, which have the greatest level of forecast future demand.

The B-Series, which currently service these lines, will be cascaded onto the Fremantle, Midland and Armadale lines as well as the Forrestfield-Airport Link when it is due to open in 2020.
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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby Shoudy Chen » Thu May 28, 2015 10:47 pm

The C Series Trains will run along the Joondalup and Mandurah Lines due to the increased passenger demand. As what Mr OC Benz was saying about the B Series trains, they would run along the Armadale, Midland and Fremantle Lines. I reckon that the B Series Trains would still run along the Joondalup and Mandurah Lines. Not sure what the PTA would do about the A-Series Trains as these railcars would be about 20-27 years old. I guess that the A-Series Trains would still run on the Thornlie Line when this happens.
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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby 102 at 1625 » Thu May 28, 2015 11:56 pm

Shoudy Chen wrote:I guess that the A-Series Trains would still run on the Thornlie Line when this happens.

I'm not entirely sure why the PTA would do this. This sentence is probably just in error.

I wonder how the B-series trains will go on the heritage lines. Will the frequent stopping and starting kill their brakes (edit: no, traction motors, whatever they are :lol:)? Also, six car B-series sets are too long to fit the platforms. Will they be operated only as three car sets? Will this impact on capacity along the lines? Will the government spend millions to lengthen the platforms? Or will the trains only open select doors at each station (e.g. front four cars). Will this increase dwell times?

Maybe it would be better to using the C-series trains primarily on the heritage lines and leave the B-series trains to work the Joondalup/Mandurah trunk that they were designed for.

Or perhaps (this is quite a stretch) we could remove some of the little stations on the older lines to speed up journey times and provide buses instead (just a thought).
Last edited by 102 at 1625 on Fri May 29, 2015 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby Off The Rails » Fri May 29, 2015 1:32 am

1625, brakes aren't the killer for B sets on heritage - traction motors will burn out on them.

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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby TP1462 » Fri May 29, 2015 2:30 pm

Off The Rails wrote:1625, brakes aren't the killer for B sets on heritage - traction motors will burn out on them.

Cheers! :wink:


The B series are having their computer systems and traction motors upgraded as part of the upgrade package to B3 standard



In mid-2015 the Western Australia Government committed $1.2 billion for the next generation of Transperth trains, known as the C-Series.

The funding will allow the Public Transport Authority to deliver 50 new trains over ten years from 2019 to meet expected demand growth by doubling the Transperth train fleet.

Differing from the current trains on the network, the C-Series will be designed to increase passenger capacity and make it faster and safer for passengers to get on and off the trains. This will be achieved by:

A six-railcar configuration
Up to four doors either side of each railcar (as opposed to two doors on the current railcars)
Removal of the two intermediate driver cabs

Reducing the time a train is at a station will ultimately make the rail network more efficient.

The new C-Series trains will service the Joondalup and Mandurah lines, which have the greatest level of forecast future demand.

The B-Series, which currently service these lines, will be cascaded onto the Fremantle, Midland and Armadale lines as well as the Forrestfield-Airport Link when it is due to open in 2020

Procurement and contract details
The contract to design, build, deliver and maintain the new generation of rail cars is expected to be awarded in late-2016.

http://pta.wa.gov.au/Projects/Nextgener ... fault.aspx
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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby Shoudy Chen » Fri May 29, 2015 3:01 pm

For those who are interested in this article about the C-Series Train, there is the link below:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transperth_C-series_train
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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby Mr OC Benz » Fri May 29, 2015 4:32 pm

Umm okay guys, what was with all the recent posts? The post by Shoudy was more or less exactly what I said but worded differently, then TP1462 posts exactly what I posted. Come on guys... actually read what has already been posted before replying... Anyway to answer questions:

The C-series is intended for increase demand in growth plus new rail lines that are built. It'll double the amount of railcars in the existing fleet and would be interpreted to assume that they are not replacements for A-series. General usefulness of railcars extends to about 35-40 years. As new trains are delivered each year, B-series will cascade to the heritage lines and operate alongside existing A-series on the lines which in turn provides greater capacity and the opportunity to increase frequency.

I believe the issues relating to B-series stop-start work have been ironed out over the years. They have since their introduction over 10 years ago progressively become a more regular occurrence on heritage lines, particularly for special events. Also I think there is some investigation going into extending platform lengths along the Midland and Fremantle Line which will be necessary for the integration with the Forrestfield-Airport Link and I imagine that platform extensions would also eventually occur on the Armadale Line. However this work does not need to be done immediately and certainly not all at once. It is inevitable it'll happen eventually though...

The C-series specifications are specifically to cater for the increase in demand on the network which will be felt most on the Joondalup and Mandurah Lines. You also forgot that the C-series are permanent 6-car configurations, so if platform lengths were not extended on heritage lines, they would not be able to operate on them anyway... The B-series and their design and capacity limitations will not work in favour with running trains closer together and maximising available capacity on the two busiest lines however.

Removal of smaller intermediate stations on lines is definitely not a consideration anymore. The majority of these will become local precincts containing mixed use and higher density residential development.
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Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby TP1462 » Fri May 29, 2015 5:19 pm

Mr OC Benz wrote:Umm okay guys, what was with all the recent posts? The post by Shoudy was more or less exactly what I said but worded differently, then TP1462 posts exactly what I posted. Come on guys... actually read what has already been posted before replying... Anyway to answer questions:

The C-series is intended for increase demand in growth plus new rail lines that are built. It'll double the amount of railcars in the existing fleet and would be interpreted to assume that they are not replacements for A-series. General usefulness of railcars extends to about 35-40 years. As new trains are delivered each year, B-series will cascade to the heritage lines and operate alongside existing A-series on the lines which in turn provides greater capacity and the opportunity to increase frequency.

I believe the issues relating to B-series stop-start work have been ironed out over the years. They have since their introduction over 10 years ago progressively become a more regular occurrence on heritage lines, particularly for special events. Also I think there is some investigation going into extending platform lengths along the Midland and Fremantle Line which will be necessary for the integration with the Forrestfield-Airport Link and I imagine that platform extensions would also eventually occur on the Armadale Line. However this work does not need to be done immediately and certainly not all at once. It is inevitable it'll happen eventually though...

The C-series specifications are specifically to cater for the increase in demand on the network which will be felt most on the Joondalup and Mandurah Lines. You also forgot that the C-series are permanent 6-car configurations, so if platform lengths were not extended on heritage lines, they would not be able to operate on them anyway... The B-series and their design and capacity limitations will not work in favour with running trains closer together and maximising available capacity on the two busiest lines however.

Removal of smaller intermediate stations on lines is definitely not a consideration anymore. The majority of these will become local precincts containing mixed use and higher density residential development.



I only posted the PTA project information page to better understand the PTAs intentions and clear up any misunderstanding if that makes sense , don't forget all the older "first and second generation" sets are progressively having their computer systems upgraded to work with the newer sets I believe the B3 upgrade also includes some upgrades to the traction and braking systems (can't be sure) the PTA is currently investigating platform extensions on the Midland line, lengthening Subiaco station now that will be interesting...
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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby adx666 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:55 pm

Will this lead to a pensioning off of some of the A sets which the oldest are now over 24 years old and will be a few years older by the time the first C sets arrive?
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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby PoweredByCNG » Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:30 pm

Don't think so. I think you'll find there will be a major consolidation of timetables once the C sets are delivered en masse. I can see all Mandurah/Joondalup/Airport line services being operated by C sets and 6 car B sets used on the heritage lines to supplement 4-car A sets (along with a major improvement to peak-hours frequencies and stopping patterns). You'll probably find that there will be no more 2-car set workings.
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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby adx666 » Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:15 pm

That would be fine Dwave so I would have no problem with no more 2 car sets!
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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby Shoudy Chen » Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:05 pm

The new C series railcars
I do have some strong views about the C series railcars. The C series could travel much faster than the B and a series cars and would have lower carbon emissions. With the new generation railcars, these trains are 28% cleaner and quieter compared to other railcars in Perth. These trains has a maximum speed of 130km/h.
With the new C series railcars, they will be slightly taller, wider and longer than the B series train.
Hopefully, I would hop on this train one day!
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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby Mr OC Benz » Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:51 pm

It has already been stated the new C-series are for expansion will service the the Joondalup and Mandurah lines, which have the greatest level of forecast future demand. B-series will be cascaded onto all the other lines including FAL. The C-series will have equivalent (or better) acceleration and speed to the existing rolling stock. They can't possibly be any wider or longer than existing rolling stock.
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Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby TP1462 » Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:05 am

Mr OC Benz wrote:It has already been stated the new C-series are for expansion will service the the Joondalup and Mandurah lines, which have the greatest level of forecast future demand. B-series will be cascaded onto all the other lines including FAL. The C-series will have equivalent (or better) acceleration and speed to the existing rolling stock. They can't possibly be any wider or longer than existing rolling stock.



Mr OC Benz is right,
I'm not sure what issues their are with acceleration with the current fleet. It's not like our trains are slow or anything, the loading gauge only permits a certain sized vehicle with specific dimensions the only thing that'll be noticeably different with the C series will be the extra doors as well as obviously being long and snake like and perhaps some slight variations to the design even though they'll be based off of the existing B series which is dependent on which manufacturer wins the contract, also their are no major issues with the B sets and heritage line running whatever issues they've had in the past have been addressed and fixed with the computer systems upgrade, furthermore it's been roughly 10 years since their inception and in recent years they've made more of an appearance doing heritage line running special events such as the royal show, football specials and the bike hike, platforms will be lengthened on the Midland line to integrate Forrestfield services, some stations such as Subiaco would be quite an engineering challenge to lengthen, I honestly don't know why we keep having this conversation as the PTA have made their intentions quite clear, in which will review more project information as the timeline develops
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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby TP1462 » Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:24 am

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western ... m=Facebook


Apparently the project is going to be shelved...
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