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Next generation railcars for Transperth

Perth / Western Australia Transport Discussion

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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby tonyp » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:31 am

I note that they say "up to" four doors per car, so they apparently haven't fully decided on this.

At four doors, which is more typical of a metro rather than suburban train, it starts becoming a challenge to seating capacity. I'd say that it's only thanks to Perth's super-fast journey times that they could sustain an argument for such a high door ratio. At least the dwell times will be like lightning, but they could still get a good improvement out of three doors.

Next step along these lines should be fully low-floor buses with more doors for the busiest services!
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Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby TP1462 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:24 am

tonyp wrote:I note that they say "up to" four doors per car, so they apparently haven't fully decided on this.

At four doors, which is more typical of a metro rather than suburban train, it starts becoming a challenge to seating capacity. I'd say that it's only thanks to Perth's super-fast journey times that they could sustain an argument for such a high door ratio. At least the dwell times will be like lightning, but they could still get a good improvement out of three doors.

Next step along these lines should be fully low-floor buses with more doors for the busiest services!


the 4 doors per carriage was something that was pointed out by the previous government before they deferred the project it seems as though the new labor government are just re-initiating the project and working with all planning that PTA has done thus far, seating capacity is really a non issue as part of the transport plan includes for automatic train control which will allow for trains to run closer together, the C series will be ideal for special events to and from the new stadium and the B series are due for a "midlife' refurb and apart of that plan includes to reconfigure the seating mainly for heritage line work and bench seating does seem to be preferred by PTA
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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby tonyp » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:02 am

It looks like they've settled on 3 doors per side per car:

Image

Probably adequate for Perth. Four doors would be more the thing for the likes of the Sydney metro, so it'll be interesting to see how that goes with three doors.

The above document was on Facebook but I can't find the original source of the whole document.
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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby Merc1107 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:14 am

Great to see they're looking for speeds of "at least" 130km/h.
With the distance from north to south increasing, some modest bumps in average speed would be a good way to entice more patrons, particularly off peak where congestion isn't such an issue (except Cockburn's notorious bottleneck).
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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby busdriver12 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:02 pm

tonyp wrote:
The above document was on Facebook but I can't find the original source of the whole document.


You'll find it here (as a pdf) which is at the bottom of this page

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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby the c man » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:39 pm

Bombardier have won the contract to build the new csets trains
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Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby TP1462 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:04 pm

the c man wrote:Bombardier have won the contract to build the new csets trains


Not quite if you’re referring to the link on their website it’s strictly a place holder which is purely for their investors and all information regarding the B series has been removed from that website link having said all of that it still requires the minister and PTA to formally announce it, it was more than likely always going to be Downer Bombardier JV straight from the outset they have the best experience with the previous 2 fleets and best knowledge of the local supply chain which gives them a big leg up over the other proponents especially when it comes to the 50% local content quota


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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby TP1462 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:30 pm

The contract has surprisingly been awarded to ALSTOM people will have their own opinions on the design, due to size restrictions on this website I can’t upload an image of the artists impression


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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby Bus Suggestions » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:39 pm

Image
Not the result I was hoping for after 5 years of anticipation. Was expecting either something similar to Brisbane's new NGR trains or the Adelaide A-City 4000-Class EMUs. Too bulky for my liking.
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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby PoweredByCNG » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:45 pm

Bus Suggestions wrote:Not the result I was hoping for after 5 years of anticipation. Was expecting either something similar to Brisbane's new NGR trains or the Adelaide A-City 4000-Class EMUs. Too bulky for my liking.


This was the result I expected after the debacles experienced with QLD's latest acquisitions.
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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby TP1462 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:30 pm

Looks to be a modified version of the existing X’trap fleet that’s already running in Melbourne


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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby TP1462 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:25 pm

It’ll be interesting which version of the Coradia PTA decide on for the Australind replacement giving they now have access to different propulsion methods outside of diesel including dual mode, steam and fuel cell hydrogen iLint that’s currently operating out of Germany the potential for more environmentally friendly cleaner solutions is there now


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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby tonyp » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:17 am

In the image of the C series train above, it appears to have lateral seating rather than the longitudinal now pretty standard in Perth. Is this just artistic licence or a reversal of the previous trend? A lot of people don't like riding backwards so that would be a retrograde step. Longitudinal is a good compromise as well as providing more standing space.
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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby Merc1107 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:45 am

tonyp wrote:Is this just artistic licence or a reversal of the previous trend? A lot of people don't like riding backwards so that would be a retrograde step. Longitudinal is a good compromise as well as providing more standing space.
Pretty sure it's just artistic license, wouldn't want to give the Transperth bashers more ammo for their Facebook whinges now would we? :lol:
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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby Mr OC Benz » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:07 pm

tonyp wrote:In the image of the C series train above, it appears to have lateral seating rather than the longitudinal now pretty standard in Perth. Is this just artistic licence or a reversal of the previous trend? A lot of people don't like riding backwards so that would be a retrograde step. Longitudinal is a good compromise as well as providing more standing space.

They have been pretty careful with their messaging to not lock in something and having to backtrack. All of these things will be finalised as part of contract negotiations. Same as with the wording for the number of doors. Originally they were planning for a "minimum" of four doors per side with a maximum stipulated distance between them, however, this is now changed to be "additional and wider doors" - probably likely to be three doors per side as per latest artist impressions but this is not officially confirmed yet. Likely balancing with their minimum seating requirements which would then tie into what seating/standing layout they will ultimately choose to achieve the 25% capacity increase over the B-series as 6 car sets (which will primarily come from increased standing room).
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Re: Next generation railcars for Transperth

Postby TP1462 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:30 pm

Mr OC Benz wrote:
tonyp wrote:In the image of the C series train above, it appears to have lateral seating rather than the longitudinal now pretty standard in Perth. Is this just artistic licence or a reversal of the previous trend? A lot of people don't like riding backwards so that would be a retrograde step. Longitudinal is a good compromise as well as providing more standing space.

They have been pretty careful with their messaging to not lock in something and having to backtrack. All of these things will be finalised as part of contract negotiations. Same as with the wording for the number of doors. Originally they were planning for a "minimum" of four doors per side with a maximum stipulated distance between them, however, this is now changed to be "additional and wider doors" - probably likely to be three doors per side as per latest artist impressions but this is not officially confirmed yet. Likely balancing with their minimum seating requirements which would then tie into what seating/standing layout they will ultimately choose to achieve the 25% capacity increase over the B-series as 6 car sets (which will primarily come from increased standing room).


Don’t forget to take into consideration that the 25% extra capacity would come from the removal of the 2 redundant cab ends PTA and supplier Alstom would also be able to take full advantage of the loading gauge rather than be restricted to Brisbane’s inferior loading gauge. The C series are expected to be about 6 metres longer than a 6car B series at 150m as opposed to 144m longitudinal bench seating would be the preferred seating arrangement it’s not just about capacity but requires less maintenance due to less wear and tear the fleets with bench seating have aged better than the fleets with the 2x2 arrangement. 3 larger doors would be the appropriate amount to deal with dwell times on the network during peak but particularly during football or royal show as far as I’m aware the C series is just a slightly modified variant of the already existing Alstom X’trapolis as mentioned all of the nitty gritty information will be fine tuned during the negotiations with Alstom but I wouldn’t expect anything overly too different than what we’ve already got
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