• Advertisement

Ellenbrook - Whitfords bus link idea

Perth / Western Australia Transport Discussion

Moderators: perthbus, Mr OC Benz

Ellenbrook - Whitfords bus link idea

Postby shinjiman » Sat May 24, 2014 1:34 am

Just drawn up some idea about this one.
Not quite sure if there's any school bus routes covers any part of that.
Any comments are welcome. :)

[edit] (The updated route map for this route proposal was posted here.)

Route 339 Part A.jpg
Route 339 Part A

Route 339 Part B.jpg
Route 339 Part B
Last edited by shinjiman on Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
shinjiman
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:22 pm
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 29 times

Re: Ellenbrook - Whitfords bus link idea

Postby laptop15 » Sat May 24, 2014 1:38 am

I like it, but I'm tossed up between Whitfords or Joondalup. If there isn't much difference in timing perhaps send it straight up to Joondalup?
laptop15
 
Posts: 1064
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 12:46 am
Location: Landsdale
Has thanked: 584 times
Been thanked: 55 times

Re: Ellenbrook - Whitfords bus link idea

Postby shinjiman » Sat May 24, 2014 1:57 am

If the route extends west from Mirrabooka Ave/Sydney Rd (towards Ocean Reef Rd), it will reach to Edgewater.
Connecting into Whitfords seems more suitable for transfer by other buses and train line. It's similar for the route 450 connecting to Warwick instead of Greenwood. :D

Also this would provide more direct access from Ellenbrook to Joondalup, it's only transfer once in Whitfords.
shinjiman
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:22 pm
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 29 times

Re: Ellenbrook - Whitfords bus link idea

Postby TP1462 » Sat May 24, 2014 2:03 am

awesome another alternative would be to upgrade the 450 which could continue up to Alexander Drive left Alexander right Gnangara via Ellenbrook transfer station to Ellenbrook town centre this 339 proposal looks more or less like an upgraded 352 which could either continue under its current route but then proceed as right Rockdale pass right Queensway left Alexander right Gnangara continuing to Ellenbrook town centre via Ellenbrook transfer station
User avatar
TP1462
 
Posts: 775
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 3:43 pm
Has thanked: 356 times
Been thanked: 154 times
Favourite Vehicle: B7RLE, OC500LE, 0305, B10M.

Re: Ellenbrook - Whitfords bus link idea

Postby 102 at 1625 » Sat May 24, 2014 11:31 am

I like the proposal, but I think implementing it would require a rationalisation of 955/956 services. Also, for only around one extra service kilometre, 355 services, which travel to Midland, could be upgraded. Midland is a much more useful location, and only an extra five minutes on a train (compared to Whitfords) to the city. However, I understand that both Midland and Bassendean Stations are in Perth's east and on the Midland line, and this 339 service would slash journey times to the northern suburbs, and give people a choice to travel west or south. I think that a service running hourly or bi-hourly off-peak on weekdays and more frequently in the peak could be justified. Possibly, a maximum of four Saturday services could also operate.
102 at 1625
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:06 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Has thanked: 240 times
Been thanked: 125 times
Favourite Vehicle: Volgren Optimus

Re: Ellenbrook - Whitfords bus link idea

Postby 1whoknows » Sat May 24, 2014 12:01 pm

Just read the above post in Melbourne at 12.03pm!!!
Cats are best.
User avatar
1whoknows
 
Posts: 3416
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:55 am
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 30 times
Been thanked: 237 times

Re: Ellenbrook - Whitfords bus link idea

Postby esperanceguy » Sat May 24, 2014 11:26 pm

Forget Whitfords to Ellenbrook, improve upon the 335 between Midland and Ellenbrook instead...
Perth-based Transperth fanatic from 1991-2005
esperanceguy
 
Posts: 493
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:16 am
Location: Esperance, Western Australia
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 13 times
Favourite Vehicle: articulated buses!

Re: Ellenbrook - Whitfords bus link idea

Postby pasha241 » Sun May 25, 2014 2:41 am

like your propotion but rather than Ellenbrook - Whitfords. i More prever Ellenbrook - Warwick STATION.
Route will travel via
From Ellenbrook: Depart from Ellenbrook Shopping Centre, Main St, R Gnangara Rd, L Alexander Dr, R Queensway Rd, R The Broadview, C Abbotswood Dr, C Rangeview Rd, R Hepburn Ave, L Mirrabooka Ave, R Marangaroo Dr, L Wanneroo Rd, R Warwick Rd, L Erindale Rd, R Beach Rd, R Warwick Stn
To Ellenbrook L Beach Rd, L Erindale Rd, R Warwick Rd, L Wanneoo Rd, R Marangaroo Dr, L Mirrabooka Ave, R Hepburn Ave, L Rangeview Rd, C Abbotswood Dr, C The Broadview, R Queensway Rd, L Alexander Dr, R Gnangara Rd, L Main St, Terminates at Ellenbrook Shopping Centre

i think is very good idea service from ellenbrook to Joondalup Line Area. because i think now most of people who lives in ellenbrook go to go to office or Go To School sorrounding Joondalup Line Area. like Example: My School (Greenwood College) quiet a number of student live in ellenbrook. And most of them use public transportion, so they should go to city first, then Midland Line, then 955/956 to ellebrook, its so complicated. but if the route between Ellenbrook - Warwick Station example. it easier for them to go to school or work surrounding that area rather than go to bassendean, then train, then train again.

for this route it will pass 4 Different Contract Areas (Midvale, Joondalup, Marmion and a bit of Morley Contract)
list of my photo taken you can be found at https://busenthusiastic.wordpress.com/
my youtube channel at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTCdKn ... OUqcedvUdg
pasha241
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:47 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Ellenbrook - Whitfords bus link idea

Postby 102 at 1625 » Sun May 25, 2014 12:00 pm

I suspect that people living in Ellenbrook would work more to the north than the south. If they do work in the city, then they can catch the 955/956. I still think a service to Warwick of even Joondalup might be better, but if you think that many adult passengers (who might travel outside of school hours instead of just once at the same time each day) will be better off going to Warwick than Whitfords, then I'll take your word for it. I don't live anywhere near there.

If many people catch public transport from Greenwood College to Ellenbrook, then ask Transperth to run a school special on this route through the online feedback form in the feedback subject "Transperth" and the feedback category "Requesting a service change in an eastern suburb".
102 at 1625
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:06 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Has thanked: 240 times
Been thanked: 125 times
Favourite Vehicle: Volgren Optimus

Re: Ellenbrook - Whitfords bus link idea

Postby Mr OC Benz » Sun May 25, 2014 1:14 pm

I would run it via Landsdale (possibly replace 352?) to provide a better catchment. It would otherwise remain point to point really and would struggle to carry enough passengers to justify. I think Whitfords is the best terminus point because it is a major interchange for many other bus routes and the train line. Also routing it via Landsdale and Darch will mean that you can have pax transferring to the 450 for journeys to Warwick etc. you wouldn't want to go any further south because it would be better to go via Bassendean/Morley, and you don't really want to go any further north than Whitfords because it would be quicker by train from Whitfords anyway.

I am aware of some people who do travel between the two areas (Ellenbrook and Whitfords/Joondalup) but it would be hard to justify a service for the time being. Unless you are able to get a catchment of pax elsewhere other than Whitfords and Ellenbrook.
User avatar
Mr OC Benz
Moderator
 
Posts: 5643
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:18 pm
Location: Sydney, NSW
Has thanked: 459 times
Been thanked: 1227 times
Favourite Vehicle: Anything German

Re: Ellenbrook - Whitfords bus link idea

Postby shinjiman » Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:59 pm

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/ellen ... mzkiz.html

That's the one being requested and should be enough patrons to getting around those places.
shinjiman
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:22 pm
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 29 times

Re: Ellenbrook - Whitfords bus link idea

Postby Shoudy Chen » Sun Feb 21, 2016 6:52 pm

For the proposed Route 339, Transdev Joondalup would more likely utilize this route than Swan midvale. Swan Midvale will take more time to drive from the depot to Ellenbrook than Transdev Joondalup/Wangara to Whitfords.
User avatar
Shoudy Chen
 
Posts: 386
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:55 am
Location: Perth
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 17 times

Re: Ellenbrook - Whitfords bus link idea

Postby sylar » Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:03 pm

Shoudy Chen wrote:For the proposed Route 339, Transdev Joondalup would more likely utilize this route than Swan midvale. Swan Midvale will take more time to drive from the depot to Ellenbrook than Transdev Joondalup/Wangara to Whitfords.



Swan have a depot located in Ellenbrook which operates with Midvale.
User avatar
sylar
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:37 am
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 32 times

Re: Ellenbrook - Whitfords bus link idea

Postby Mr OC Benz » Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:02 pm

Quite interesting to actually reconsider the situation nearly two years later. Certainly my view has changed given my familiarity with the areas affected and the 955/956 service. While it may not be a choice for some who live there, given the geographic location of Ellenbrook and its distance from everything else, it's a bit much trying to demand a good public transport network in much the way that you have to ask what were they thinking when Ellenbrook was first established!!!

But yes, perhaps at the bare minimum, a peak-hour only commuter/school service could be provided. It's not just serving to benefit those specific people concerned, but I can see a whole raft of benefits such as:
  • Provides direct connection from Ellenbrook area to Joondalup Line (most likely at Whitfords Station)
  • Eases heavy loadings/overcrowding often experienced on the 955/956 to/from Bassendean during peak hours
  • Reduces unnecessary travel on the 955/956 services and on Midland Line trains, providing more capacity for those who actually need to get to the CBD/Bassendean/Morley/Midland etc.
  • Avoids unnecessary CBD-oriented travel for people travelling from Ellenbrook to other key employment areas in the Perth metropolitan area

There is probably even potential to run the service as an express/limited stops type service. Either start it at Annie's Landing and run all stops to the Transfer Station, then express/limited stops to Whitfords or just commence from Ellenbrook Shops and connect with feeders there and at Ellenbrook Transfer Station before running express/limited stops to Whitfords. I think now, there would probably be sufficient demand for a few trips at least during the peak. It's contrary to what I've said in the past, but I guess the main intention of this service would really be to connect Ellenbrook residents to key nodes along the Joondalup Line (e.g. Joondalup, Osborne Park/Glendalough etc), so getting passengers to the Joondalup Line as quick as possible would be priority. I think a service commencing from Annie's Landing would be more successful though as it would be able to cover most of the Ellenbrook catchment area just travelling down The Broadway/Main St/Pinaster Pde without having to add additional transfers given that at least one transfer will be required for the majority of potential passengers at Whitfords anyway.

Shoudy Chen wrote:For the proposed Route 339, Transdev Joondalup would more likely utilize this route than Swan midvale. Swan Midvale will take more time to drive from the depot to Ellenbrook than Transdev Joondalup/Wangara to Whitfords.

For planning matters, I really don't think it matters which operator or depot would run such a service. There are plenty of options out there, but since this isn't even a solid proposal, it is probably not even worth mentioning about. However don't forget that Swan now have a depot at Beenyup which is the main depot for Whitfords services now. Plus there's a depot in Ellenbrook too which you seem to of completely forgotten.
User avatar
Mr OC Benz
Moderator
 
Posts: 5643
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:18 pm
Location: Sydney, NSW
Has thanked: 459 times
Been thanked: 1227 times
Favourite Vehicle: Anything German

Re: Ellenbrook - Whitfords bus link idea

Postby the c man » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:55 pm

I think its great idea but could work better as high frequency service as 970 or980 route with some services terminating at whitfords, some terminating at Joondalup with possible extension to Clarkson station
the c man
 
Posts: 339
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:03 pm
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 39 times

Re: Ellenbrook - Whitfords bus link idea

Postby 102 at 1625 » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:06 pm

Not sure why they'd extend it to Clarkson - that would just be duplicating the rail line.

I wonder if they could operate a mixture of both services to Whitfords (mainly in the peak and perhaps combined with the 352 to improve efficiency as Mr OC Benz suggested back in 2014), and services running directly to the Joondalup city centre. Or, (this might be a bit fanciful) once the multi-story car park at Edgewater is finished construct some rudimentary bus facilities and route the bus to there. The best of both worlds!

A part of me asks why we should bother providing quality public transport to a planning disaster like Ellenbrook. If the residents wanted good public transport, they should have chosen to live elsewhere! But I guess they do have a right to something better than what they've got.
102 at 1625
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:06 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Has thanked: 240 times
Been thanked: 125 times
Favourite Vehicle: Volgren Optimus

Ellenbrook - Whitfords bus link idea

Postby shinjiman » Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:09 am

sylar wrote:
Shoudy Chen wrote:For the proposed Route 339, Transdev Joondalup would more likely utilize this route than Swan midvale. Swan Midvale will take more time to drive from the depot to Ellenbrook than Transdev Joondalup/Wangara to Whitfords.



Swan have a depot located in Ellenbrook which operates with Midvale.


Why not Swan Midvale and Swan Karrinyup utilize those buses for this route??

By the way don't forget the Santi Estate in Madeley as the proposed route going through there as well.

Also if possible is that better to put selected trips deviated via the Wanneroo Markets on weekends and public holidays as there's no 469s on Weekends.
shinjiman
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:22 pm
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 29 times

Re: Ellenbrook - Whitfords bus link idea

Postby theenglishguy » Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:25 pm

102 at 1625 wrote:A part of me asks why we should bother providing quality public transport to a planning disaster like Ellenbrook. If the residents wanted good public transport, they should have chosen to live elsewhere! But I guess they do have a right to something better than what they've got.


I'd agree with you most of the time, but I do feel for those Ellenbrook residents who bought property thinking a railway would be constructed. Even as late as 2009-10 it seemed quite likely to be built. Forgetting about them now will just make the disaster worse.

However if someone Byford started complaining about their public transport then I definitely wouldn't be sympathetic
theenglishguy
 
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:38 pm
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 39 times

Re: Ellenbrook - Whitfords bus link idea

Postby PaxInfo » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:28 pm

A problem with Ellenbrook is that it's a largely residential area and access to the big employment areas often requires a minimum of one and often two changes of vehicle. This can be time consuming if frequency is poor and traffic harms connections. Even if you were to provide buses to Joondalup line trains you would very likely need two changes to reach major job areas like Balcatta or Osborne Park.

A major structural problem with the NoR bus network is that apart from the Circle route and the old 400/408, routes typically stay one side of the freeway. There's been a lot of improvements for connections between (say) the Mirrabooka or Balga areas to the Joondalup line but typically these routes don't go further west of the stations. From memory, when the NSTS first opened the only route which went east of Wanneroo Rd was the old 64 from Warwick.

Especially once trains get to a frequency where timed connections are less important I can see merit in east - west routes that through-route from places like Whitford City through Whitfords and then to the likes of Madely and Darch. Another, although the trip generators are weaker, is Hillarys - Greenwood - Alexander Hts and possibly further east. And might there be scope for 413 & 415 to be combined to provide more areas with 1 and 2 bus access to the jobs area of Osborne Park?

As for Ellenbrook I wonder whether there would be any gain by joining 379 and 341 to form a Mirrabooka - Bassendean route via Malaga (where there's jobs), allowing a bus-bus connection with 955/956. That would provide connections to more places though it would still be a 3-bus trip to some places.
User avatar
PaxInfo
 
Posts: 722
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:05 am
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 125 times
Been thanked: 64 times

Re: Ellenbrook - Whitfords bus link idea

Postby 102 at 1625 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:53 pm

PaxInfo wrote:As for Ellenbrook I wonder whether there would be any gain by joining 379 and 341 to form a Mirrabooka - Bassendean route via Malaga (where there's jobs), allowing a bus-bus connection with 955/956. That would provide connections to more places though it would still be a 3-bus trip to some places.

You mean the 371, right? One trip a weekday wouldn't be very useful...
102 at 1625
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:06 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Has thanked: 240 times
Been thanked: 125 times
Favourite Vehicle: Volgren Optimus

Re: Ellenbrook - Whitfords bus link idea

Postby 102 at 1625 » Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:28 pm

WA Today wrote:A PTA spokeswoman said there was "a very good reason" Ellenbrook buses connected to the Midland line and not the Joondalup line. She said two routes, every 10 minutes on-peak and 15 minutes off-peak, comparable to any inner-city bus service, passed through well-populated precincts to Bassendean and benefited many people along the way. By contrast, a service between Ellenbrook and Joondalup line would pass through at least 10km of state forest as well as several industrial areas. "One of the basic requirements of good public transport planning is to service a corridor rather than a single point at each end of a route," she said.
102 at 1625
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:06 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Has thanked: 240 times
Been thanked: 125 times
Favourite Vehicle: Volgren Optimus

Re: Ellenbrook - Whitfords bus link idea

Postby PaxInfo » Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:42 pm

102 at 1625 wrote:
PaxInfo wrote:As for Ellenbrook I wonder whether there would be any gain by joining 379 and 341 to form a Mirrabooka - Bassendean route via Malaga (where there's jobs), allowing a bus-bus connection with 955/956. That would provide connections to more places though it would still be a 3-bus trip to some places.

You mean the 371, right? One trip a weekday wouldn't be very useful...


True. It just struck me that there are some routes in the area with some loose ends that terminate in what was the edge but have now been overtaken by suburbia.

Eg several 340 series & 889. Extending the terminus may require an extra bus and being outer suburban patronage may not be very high to justify (especially when compared to areas where buses run full). But as the area grows an evolution towards a simpler network including cross-suburban routes may be desirable.

http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/Portals ... s/Map3.pdf
User avatar
PaxInfo
 
Posts: 722
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:05 am
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 125 times
Been thanked: 64 times

Re: Ellenbrook - Whitfords bus link idea

Postby shinjiman » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:25 am

Just seen the report by Seven News (via Facebook)

7 News Perth wrote:The Ellenbrook community looks set for another rail disappointment, as Labor claims the suburb has been overlooked in the State Government's latest public transport plan.


Seems no one consider a bus route to Joondalup Line as an interim solution for that. :o
shinjiman
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:22 pm
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 29 times

Re: Ellenbrook - Whitfords bus link idea

Postby theenglishguy » Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:23 pm

shinjiman wrote:Just seen the report by Seven News (via Facebook)

7 News Perth wrote:The Ellenbrook community looks set for another rail disappointment, as Labor claims the suburb has been overlooked in the State Government's latest public transport plan.


Seems no one consider a bus route to Joondalup Line as an interim solution for that. :o


Well Labor are always going to say that Ellenbrook has been overlooked - that's just the politics.

There's less than a week until the Transport Plan for Perth @ 3.5 million is released, so we will find out then. I guarantee the Ellenbrook BRT will be included, but the chances are a railway won't - which Labor will say means the suburb has been overlooked. That's hardly a surprise though.

I'm not sure about a Whitford-Ellenbrook bus service though. It all depends on the frequency. Every 15 mins would be great (but unlikely), once an hour would be not so great. In the long term though, it makes sense - just depends how far in advance that is.
theenglishguy
 
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:38 pm
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 39 times

Re: Ellenbrook - Whitfords bus link idea

Postby shinjiman » Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:53 am

Just seen one of the post from Facebook before, which was posted few days ago by Frank Alban (Liberal MLA of Swan Hills).

Seems this one wasn't a bad idea at least can connect the Ellenbrook area to Joondalup Line (Joondalup Station) but it lacks the connection between the Landsdale and Wangara areas.
shinjiman
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:22 pm
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 29 times

Next


  • Advertisement

Return to Discussion - Perth / WA

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests