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Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Postby jonwil » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:50 pm

Interesting to know that at one point getting to Adventure World on bus was an up-charge, these days you can get there from Cockburn Central on a free shuttle I believe.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Postby route171 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:30 pm

Regarding the tram timetable as posted above -- I can remeber routes 2, 3, 4, and 6, which replaced trams in the Subiaco/Nedlands/Claremont area:

2 went from Hay St Perth Town Hall to Thomas Street
Hay St - Thomas St returning via Hamilton St, Roberts Rd, Hay St, Havelock St, Murray St to Perth GPO

4 went from Hay St Perth Town Hall to Bagot Rd
Hay St-Railway Rd-Bagot Rd returning via Bagot, Hensman, Barker and Rockeby Rds then as for 2

6 went from Hay St Perth Town Hall to Rockeby Rd
Hay St-Rockeby Rd nr Kings Park Rd returning via Nicholson Rd, Rockeby Rd then as for 2

Changed in late 70s, 6 extended to Karella St Nedlands similar to 8/10/12 route, 4 extended to Shenton Park RPH hospital, similar to 9/11/13 route, route 3 to Claremont via Loch Street and Stirling Hwy and other changes related to Murray, Hay, Rokeby becoming one way and the creation of the Murray St/Hay St mall

After the change route 4 went via Hay St, Bagot Rd, Hensman Rd, Railway Tce, Nash St to terminate outside RPH Shenton Park Hospital. Later when it became the 9/11/13 the terminus was extended to Bedbrook Pl

Route 6 was extended to Hollywood Aged Care village around 1982/83 via Rokeby Rd, Nicholson Rd, Derby, Onslow, Herbert, Aberdare Roads, Burwood St, Verdun St, Smyth Rd, Karella St terminus. Returning via Karella St, Williams Rd, Monash Ave, Smyth Rd, Verdun St, Kitchener St, Aberdare Rd, and as per outbound journey.

Route 3 was extended to Claremont Station via Bagot Rd, Railway Rd, Loch St, Stirling Hwy, Stirling Road, Gugeri St, to terminate at Claremont Station. Returning via Gugeri St, Leura Ave, Sitling Hwy and as per outbound journey until Hay St/Thomas St, via Thomas and Murray St, Vic. Square, Goderich St, Bennet St, Hay St, Causeway.

Most were through routed to Vic Park displaying route 10/11 to Alday Rd nr Albany Hwy. Some displayed 8 on the return journey from Vic Park and "DEPOT" as the destination terminating at the Hay St depot. 2,3,4,6 were used for journeys to Shenton Park/Nedlands/Claremont as they were for directional purposes. Unlike the 8-13 which operated both directions with same numbers.

Later they were through routed to Bentley (Hedley St) and Beckenham (Solar St). In the 90s the 4 became the western section of the 9/11/13 but travelled along Wellington not Hay St and the 6 became the western section of the 8/10/12 again using Wellington St instead of Hay St. Yet again around 2002 the 8-13 were split and altered. However around 2001 which saw the big changes resulting in the introduction of the 24/25/26/27/28 routes in the Claremont contract area. They were the effective replacements of the 8-13 services as they had eliminated the erratic frequency of the through routed services, clockface TTs were introduced with a better frequency (Although the 27 now only runs hourly to Claremont off peak), the 8-13 being deleted around 2002 with the 708 (Perth - Beckenham) and 26 (Perth-Nedlands) remaning until 2008 when the 8-13 (or 4 and 6 ) as we knew it finally disappeared.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Postby Leyland B21 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:36 pm

Sorry insert thats a later version of route 128. The one im thinking which i have a Timetable for is 6min travel time from Calista Hub S/C (yes it was called calista way back b4 being renamed Kwinana Hub) and travelled via Gilmour, Pengilly and Littlemore to masonic homes. It usually formed a 129 to Kwinana!!! it was in the early 80's
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Postby adx666 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:52 pm

insert_coin wrote:
ADX666 wrote:Well done old man, I am glad you grabbed it as I had completely forgotten about it! :oops:


That's okay young'n...i doubt you would've had the strength to pick it up :lol:


:lol: :lol: Pure gold wit U R sole!! That is too funken funny
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Postby tbc1983 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:33 pm

Does anyone know the exact route of the 236, did it shadow the 219?

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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Postby Leyland B21 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:34 am

it shadowed route 219 as far as Albany Hwy and Cecil Avenue, then turned right into Cecil, Right into the old terminus which was opposite the entrance to Boans / Myer . The road in use is now a carpark entrance but was for a long time a bus termini ,southbound buses would return to Albany highway via carpark access road next to Myer and current Albany Hwy Bus Stop, Northbound would return via Cecil, Right into Albany Hwy
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Postby insert_coin » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:20 pm

ADX666 wrote:Well done old man, I am glad you grabbed it as I had completely forgotten about it! :oops:


That's okay young'n...i doubt you would've had the strength to pick it up :lol:

ADX666 wrote: :lol: :lol: Pure gold wit U R sole!! That is too funken funny


I know bro...I am (are) a complete soul :D

BDSM: I'll see if I can dig it out - I vaguely remember the "Masonic Homes" tag -but couldn't locate it.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Postby insert_coin » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:23 pm

Interesting route...the 239 travelling from Westfield to Kemmy then along Albo's to Cecil. BIG loop.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Postby Leyland B21 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:20 pm

insert_coin wrote:Interesting route...the 239 travelling from Westfield to Kemmy then along Albo's to Cecil. BIG loop.



:lol: fixed

i have a copy of the 128 from 1984 but no map!!!
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Postby insert_coin » Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:46 am

Leyland B21 wrote:
insert_coin wrote:Interesting route...the 239 travelling from Westfield to Kemmy then along Albo's to Cecil. BIG loop.



:lol: fixed

i have a copy of the 128 from 1984 but no map!!!


Same here...I think! I'll check later today.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Postby route171 » Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:05 pm

I think it was mentioned a few times, if you want to see the 116/166 TT from 99 go to my earlier post in http://www.busaustralia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=61625&p=744487#p744487 (today I fixed the photo links)
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Postby route171 » Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:14 pm

I just had a re read of the entire thread; sorry to be pedantic, but I think it deserves a mention. So (with all respect) insert_coin (and possibly others),

Espguy - what happened (I know there is much knowledge contained on here in a myriad of threads....YES) is that around late 1977 the MTT introduced its "core times" policy. It basically spelt the end of anything running frequently on a Sun/Pub Hol.


The Core Times Policy was introduced on October 18 1981.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Postby insert_coin » Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:32 pm

I believe someone named....aaah, I better not name him, was almost solely responsible for that farcical situation that even til this day (in some very acute corners) still affects effective PT in our city/surrounds.
How some of these people end up being employed as planners is lost on me - I think they live solely on paper and not on earth.

PS - yes you are correct I believe 171 - that was the date.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Postby adx666 » Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:05 pm

Come on bro, name and shame em!
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Postby esperanceguy » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:30 pm

Is that the same person who's responsible for the ridiculonkous runnings until past midnight on the Sunday timetable on routes like 920 & 940, yet early closings for Sunday routes from train stations on the NSR...?
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Postby PaxInfo » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:13 pm

insert_coin wrote:I believe someone named....aaah, I better not name him, was almost solely responsible for that farcical situation that even til this day (in some very acute corners) still affects effective PT in our city/surrounds.
How some of these people end up being employed as planners is lost on me - I think they live solely on paper and not on earth.


Given that public transport was then in decline and budgets would have been limited, I'm not sure how fair it is to blame the planner for low service levels, when resources would have been determined by others.

To put things in perspective, until well into the 2000s passengers in most Melbourne suburbs away from trains and trams would have been grateful for a 4-trip core timetable because only a handful of bus routes ran Sunday. Perth banned Sunday shopping but had Sunday buses, but Melbourne allowed Sunday shopping and had no buses. Go figure!

Having said that, efficiency is a planner's obligation and for that they do have some control, and thus responsibility. Though it's not total - given 80% public funding and political interference to prop up inefficient services.

Here I think criticisms of some of the core timetables is on firmer ground. Eg the 170-series where two buses often came within 10 minutes, then a 2 hour gap until the next pair. Hardly efficient and it doesn't maximise overall service, compared to an even hourly service. Plus a failure to simplify many routes until the late '90s/early 2000s, when they also gained clockface timetables and train co-ordination.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Postby route171 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:12 pm

I believe the core times were introduced to facilitate connections between the city and suburbs as prior to the core times, trying to connect with other services was a hit and miss most of the time.

Another fine example to match PaxInfo's; and there are plenty more; until the recent revamp of the City Beach group of routes, ex the City on a sunday, both combined routes (85 and 95) departed Wittenoom near Hill St simultaneously at 10:00, 85 at 11:40, 95 at 12:00, 85 at 13:55 and 95 following at 14:00, then 85 at 1520 and 95 at 1530 - and then another 95 at 17:00 and an 85 at 17:05. Another 95 was slotted in at 18:00 with both routes leaving the city at the same time at 19:25.

Guildford Rd routes 43,48 and 55 were in core mode as was route 60 only a few years ago.
The frantic exodus of buses ex the Busport on a Sunday at 19:30 hours - 35 buses trying to leave at the same time - and multiple buses together laying over in Westralia Sq.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Postby insert_coin » Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:05 pm

very good points paxinfo and agent171 - and yes - I understand your points.
What I (could) NEVER get my head around was something as ridiculous as 4 services running from the city through Vic Park at something like 1925/1925/1930/1935 and that was it for the rest of the night! The same scenario was operated all through the day at similar "core" times. No....I will never see how it was mean't to be a more efficient way of running a PT enterprise (Govt or not) - it was plain STUPID ideology and that is the simple and be all end of it! Any "rational" planner would have planned a more evenly spaced frequency to try and entice people to utilise PT during and after its (then) decline - but "that" was the best they could manage? MORONS. Yes, no names needed!!!
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Postby route171 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:25 pm

I remember the Dumfries Rd via Gregory and Grantham Sts and Louth Rd via Cambridge St trolleybuses - 42-and-a-bit years have passed since their demise now..
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Postby route171 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:11 pm

insert_coin wrote:
tbc1983 wrote:Didn't the old 224 go past Adventure World?

Sure did...it was a 124 up until 1965, then 224.


1965-66 saw many routes to be "bumped up" by one hundred. Examples include 119 (Perth-Armadale), 120 (Armadale-Byford), 124 (Armadale-Fremantle), 249 (Perth-Balcatta), 252 (Perth-Balga later Koondoola via Flinders St), 253 (Perth-Balga via Wanneroo Road) which were bumped up by a 100 to 219, 220, 349, 352, 353, etc.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Postby tbc1983 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:43 pm

The bumping up of numbers, was this due to change of route, or route number rationalisation?

Also, can details of routes 119 and 124 be made available, please?


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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Postby adx666 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:44 pm

Always seems like a waste of time renumbering routes, particularly when there is no other change to the route !
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Postby route171 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:33 pm

tbc1983 wrote:The bumping up of numbers, was this due to change of route, or route number rationalisation?

Also, can details of routes 119 and 124 be made available, please?


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Route 119 was later "bumped up" to 219. Ex the city it would have travelled via the Causeway, the whole of Albany Hwy then via Jull St to Armadale terminus much like the 219, which you would be familiar with.

124 was a Fremantle to Armadale service which ran twice a week on Wednesdays and Fridays. From memory, it followed the 151/152 route as far as Carmody St in Hamilton Hill, and then (roughly) what is now Forrest Rd, Progress Dr past Adventure World, Bibra Drv, North Lake Road where it did a loop of South Lake, rejoined North Lake Road into Beeliar Drv/Armadale Rd, Forrest Road just after Forrestdale and into Armadale Station. Later, 124 was "bumped up' to 224, which later was split into two routes, 510 and 520. 510 ran from Fremantle TS to Success Park N Ride via most of today's 520 route. 510 traversed the Success Park N Ride - Armadale section of the 224. By the mid-late '90s, 520 ran two trips ex Success at around 10:00 and 16:00 - the return journeys from Armadale at approx 0900 and 1640. 520 was deleted around 2001.

Recently a trial route 529 with 18 trips both ways was trialled and scrapped due to low patronage. A modified 519 partly replaced the 529 and the Forrestdale-Armadale section of the 520 (former 224).
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Postby Leyland B21 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:30 pm

Are u certain there was a 124 prior to route 224?

In 224's early days it actually went via Forrest Rd, Gilbertson, South St, Nth Lake, Canning Hwy, Queen Vic St, Parry St, Cantonment St, Goldsbrough Pl, Elder St to Freo Station. When Route 224 was changed to operate Mon-Fri, it then followed then same route to Forrest Rd, Then L Hammond Rd, R Yangebup Rd, R Osprey Dve, L Moorhen Dve, R Swallow Dve, R Dotterell Way, L Osprey Dve, L Forrest Rd, R Bibra Dve, R Fantail Dve, L Bracken Way, L Meller Rd, L Walliabup Way, L Bibra Dve, R Progress Dve, L Gwilliam Rd, Forrest Rd, R O'Connell St, L Carmody St, R Redmond Rd, L Healy Rd, L Ivermey Rd, R Forrest Rd, R Kerry St, L Stratton St, R Carter St, L Healy Rd, R Parnell St, L Clontarf Rd, R Hampton Rd, L Douro Rd, R South Tce, Market St, R Cantonment St, L Goldsbrough Pl, L Elder st to Fremantle Station.

*** Note in 224's early days, Armadale Rd Didn't exist,Progress Dve didnt exist, North Lake Rd only ran between South St & Canning Hwy.

Forrest Rd was one long tedious drive between Armadale & Hamilton Hill

All Armadale services terminated at the very end of Jull St which was a full thoroughfare. The terminus was an oddly shaped ring rd, buses would enter via Streich Avenue (Once a full stretch of rd between Kelmscott and the brickworks in Sth Armadale) Buses would exit adjacent to Jull St. This terminus remained in place for a long time until The 1st interchange was built in the mid 80's

Other reason i ask about a 124 is i purely remember a pamphlet in the mail back in around 1979 / 1980 when the twice weekly service was being introduced.
If there was indeed a route 124 between Armadale & Fremantle id like to see a timetable if someone can dig up one Pls.
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Re: Obscure & forgotten services/other - who remembers?

Postby route171 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:43 pm

There certainly did exist a 124 before it was renumbered to 224. 124 DID run between Armadale and Fremantle. As I stated, in 1965 or 66 the number was bumped up by one hundred to route 224. This occurred with other routes of the time, including 119, 120, 249,251-3 etc.
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