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Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby busdriver12 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:26 pm

TP1462 wrote:The 220 between Armadale & Cannington is also duplicated by the train it has very low weekend patronage the recent weekend withdrawal of the 249 reflects this and a lot of people either live within walking distance of the train station or have their own private vehicle and those travelling to the hospital usually get either an Uber a maxi taxi or relatives to do drop off or pick up due to limited parking and those living in Roleystone or the foot hills usually drive or get the 241


The main selling point for the 220/249 is access to Armadale Hospital. I think you'd have a hard time convincing someone using a zimmer frame they're better off walking from Sherwood station up the hill to the hospital.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby 1whoknows » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:50 am

If I were in charge I would direct the production of an actual printed route map for the Perth system. This is the great missing element in how to get around as journey planners give no real concept of options, particularly for cross country journeys.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Off The Rails » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:23 pm

The closest we have to that is the network maps, which are 10 maps showing every route service on that map. There isn't one which has every route on it, from memory.

https://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/Journe ... twork-Maps

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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Leyland B21 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:40 pm

busdriver12 wrote:
TP1462 wrote:The 220 between Armadale & Cannington is also duplicated by the train it has very low weekend patronage the recent weekend withdrawal of the 249 reflects this and a lot of people either live within walking distance of the train station or have their own private vehicle and those travelling to the hospital usually get either an Uber a maxi taxi or relatives to do drop off or pick up due to limited parking and those living in Roleystone or the foot hills usually drive or get the 241


The main selling point for the 220/249 is access to Armadale Hospital. I think you'd have a hard time convincing someone using a zimmer frame they're better off walking from Sherwood station up the hill to the hospital.
Having lived on Albany Hwy a couple of houses down from Galliers Ave for the first 20yrs of my life, agreed the hill is a bit of a climb. I lived opposite Carawatha Avenue so if you lived on that stretch of road, walking from Sherwood Station was a task. I'm curious though. Former route 219 had great loadings between Armadale and Kelmscott let alone the bulk of the route and more frequent services. Last bus would leave Perth at 11.30pm. Sad to hear that it's not performing now as route 220 but my ideology is if you provide services, ppl use them. Take away services ppl will use the car.

Also take into account the loadings were good without the hospital back then as the hospital was nothing more than an emergency ward and a clinic whilst I lived there

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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Merc1107 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:59 pm

Leyland B21 wrote:I'm curious though. Former route 219 had great loadings between Armadale and Kelmscott let alone the bulk of the route and more frequent services. Last bus would leave Perth at 11.30pm. Sad to hear that it's not performing now as route 220 but my ideology is if you provide services, ppl use them. Take away services ppl will use the car.
At the risk of sending the thread off-topic, if patronage is falling, I have to wonder if it is due to changing demographics and transport options in the area? Perhaps more people in the area can now afford to run a car (as the outer suburbs are rapidly becoming what is most affordable for middle-income earners), or have better access to transport in some other way.
I'm not sure how the frequency of the Armadale line has evolved over time, but that might play a part in the bus slowly loosing favour.

Leyland B21 wrote:my ideology is if you provide services, ppl use them. Take away services ppl will use the car.
Agreed. Moving back towards the topic, in relation to bus routes, if I were in charge, I'd engage in a massive advertisement campaign to highlight to specific suburbs the travel options available to them, particularly feeders or mainline routes and the various connectivity options they provide. The average Perthite who chooses to use their car and not the bus probably hasn't the slightest clue about service in their area, and would likely make use of public transport with some gentle persuasion... Many suburbs (particularly around Bull Creek, Murdoch & Cockburn) have between 2-5 services with peak frequencies of at least 15mins.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Squiddy » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:32 am

Completely agree. I think this is more important now than ever, with the high-frequency services like 950, 960 and 970 offering fairly competitive travel times compared to driving and offering a route and frequency more like a train service than a bus. But I'd wager the average person who drives everywhere wouldn't have a clue that these services exist and would likely still assume buses took long winding routes around the suburbs, taking 30min to cover what a car can do in 10. I'd also like to see them bring back the 'high frequency' livery that adorned some of the earlier Merc O405NHs, I reckon decorating a few buses like that (especially the six new artics 3096-99, 3100-02, which were primarily delivered to run 950s) could work wonders.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby pasha241 » Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:07 pm

TP1462 wrote:The 220 between Armadale & Cannington is also duplicated by the train it has very low weekend patronage the recent weekend withdrawal of the 249 reflects this and a lot of people either live within walking distance of the train station or have their own private vehicle and those travelling to the hospital usually get either an Uber a maxi taxi or relatives to do drop off or pick up due to limited parking and those living in Roleystone or the foot hills usually drive or get the 241


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For me. i think the way that 220 could have more benefit is to make it Limited Stops. It can have limited stops lets say from After Albany hwy / shepperton rd interection to kelmscott. Maybe it will make people want to travel 220 from area around Albany Hwy (Cannington to bentley) to city rather than use 930 because it is all stops.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Bus Suggestions » Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:14 am

Two new ideas which I just want to gather opinion on....

NEW Route 452: Kingsway - Hillarys via Greenwood Stn
I know that two individual services have been trialed from Greenwood Station in the past, the 451 to Kingsway in 2012/13 and the 456 to Hillarys in 2013/14. Both, as can be seen today, have been unsuccessful in gathering the required patronage to sustain either service. Part of their failure can be linked to the fairly direct route they both took (451 pretty much ran straight along Hepburn Ave and same for 456 until Marmion Ave) resulting in evidenced slowness compared to cars and limitations in catchment area and that the two services never did co-exist for some period of time, resulting in a loss of potential for a comparatively direct Kingsway - Hillarys link. The new 452 would partially resolve both of these problems, providing a one-route, no interchange link between Kingsway and Hillarys as well as a route which is quick, yet not so direct that the catchment area is lost.
The 452 would replace the current school special 755 from Kingsway to Greenwood College in the AM and vice-versa in the PM with deviations and short trips to Greenwood College. As well as providing deviated access to and from Greenwood College, the route would directly serve Duncraig Senior High and also come within walking distance of Sacred Heart College.
ROUTE:
Image
FREQUENCY:
Weekday peak - 15-20 mins.
Weekday opposing peak - 30-45 mins.
Weekday off-peak - 45-60 mins.
Weekends - 30-60 mins.
DETAILED TIMETABLES:
452 To Hillarys.jpg
Route 452 timetable towards Hillarys Boat Harbour.

452 To Kingsway.jpg
Route 452 timetable towards Kingsway City.


EXTENSION Route 66: Morley - Glendalough via Perth Busport & Subiaco Stn
The route 66 in its current state is currently near-redundant, being what is essentially a limited-stops peak hour parallel to the ever more frequent route 950. So why don't we make it less redundant? Less redundant in that it would now run a slightly different route and be extended to provide a new connection? This route would extend to Glendalough Station, via Subiaco Station, providing a new connection from the Joondalup Line to the Fremantle Line and forming part of an 'Inner CircleRoute,' which has been mentioned in previous pages. The route would also be re-routed in Northbridge via Aberdeen St and William St, and once two-way conversion is completed, eventually down Brisbane St and William St to better serve the western Northbridge area and would also be re-routed to instead serve Perth Busport.
The extended 66 would now be limited-stops from Morley to Vincent St, and all-stops from there onwards to Glendalough. It would directly serve Bold Park Community (Primary) School and the soon-to-be-completed Bob Hawke College.
ROUTE:
Image
FREQUENCY:
Weekday peak - 10-20 mins
Weekday off-peak - 30-45 mins
Weekends - 30-60 mins
Exact frequencies will be determined at a later date, as I have not yet completed a TT for the extension.

So, what does everyone think?
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Merc1107 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:36 pm

Personally, I think odd frequencies like 45mins are a huge nuisance. Passengers can't easily remember when the bus will turn up like they could with services every 60, 30, 20, 15 (etc) minutes.
Darwin has a HUGE problem with it's services never having a consistent frequency. See attached image - on what is probably their busiest service the only consistency is that there no consistency, although it is somewhat evident they're trying for a service "approximately every 20 minutes." For most people, I imagine it would be a significant put-off.
Screen shot 2019-11-09 at 12.26.44 PM.png
Darwin Route 10 Casuarina to Darwin, weekdays AM timetable
Screen shot 2019-11-09 at 12.26.44 PM.png (28.64 KiB) Viewed 795 times

Regarding your 66 proposal, I'm not sure how useful that would be. The 66 in its current form actually carries the most passengers per kilometre of any route on the network.
The recent service additions to the 66 suggest it is still useful enough to be kept around, much like the 370 which runs in peak-direction only to supplement the 970. My suggestion instead would be to remove additional stops to make the 66 Express again; given the 950 is already very frequent and only passengers travelling as far as Morley benefit from the current arrangements anyway. I would also do away with the timing point given the 66 wouldn't be stopping on Beaufort St. This would hopefully speed up the 66s enough to properly differentiate them from the 950 and make them a useful alternative for passengers who just want to get to or from the city during the peak.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby FLOREAT 90 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:49 pm

EXTENSION Route 66: Morley - Glendalough via Perth Busport & Subiaco Stn
Regarding this proposal I do think that there is some merit. Having worked in the Hay Street / Roberts Road precinct before, the only transport option for access to/from the city is Route 28 which has an off-peak frequency of 60 minutes. Also because it is funded by City of Perth, the CAT bus does not enter west of Thomas Street as it becomes City of Subiaco. (I still remember the very frequent service of Routes 3,4 & 6 along Hay Street). So maybe your service idea is good but not as a ROUTE 66 extension but more as a ROUTE 29 Perth Busport to Glendalough Station via Subiaco Station and Harbourne Street. The service could also be numbered a ROUTE 86 to keep in sync with ROUTE 85.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby pasha241 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:28 pm

FLOREAT 90 wrote:EXTENSION Route 66: Morley - Glendalough via Perth Busport & Subiaco Stn
Regarding this proposal I do think that there is some merit. Having worked in the Hay Street / Roberts Road precinct before, the only transport option for access to/from the city is Route 28 which has an off-peak frequency of 60 minutes. Also because it is funded by City of Perth, the CAT bus does not enter west of Thomas Street as it becomes City of Subiaco. (I still remember the very frequent service of Routes 3,4 & 6 along Hay Street). So maybe your service idea is good but not as a ROUTE 66 extension but more as a ROUTE 29 Perth Busport to Glendalough Station via Subiaco Station and Harbourne Street. The service could also be numbered a ROUTE 86 to keep in sync with ROUTE 85.


for me the Subiaco glendalough Idea is for good 97 Extension.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Bus Suggestions » Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:30 pm

The 97 was once trialled to extend to Leederville, but supposedly low patronage and low Town of Cambridge funding resulted in withdrawal of the extension. Doubt they would extend the 97 to Glendalough.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Bus-1809 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:30 pm

pasha241 wrote:
TP1462 wrote:The 220 between Armadale & Cannington is also duplicated by the train it has very low weekend patronage the recent weekend withdrawal of the 249 reflects this and a lot of people either live within walking distance of the train station or have their own private vehicle and those travelling to the hospital usually get either an Uber a maxi taxi or relatives to do drop off or pick up due to limited parking and those living in Roleystone or the foot hills usually drive or get the 241


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For me. i think the way that 220 could have more benefit is to make it Limited Stops. It can have limited stops lets say from After Albany hwy / shepperton rd interection to kelmscott. Maybe it will make people want to travel 220 from area around Albany Hwy (Cannington to bentley) to city rather than use 930 because it is all stops.


The issue with the 220 is it covers a lot of stops in between where the train doesn't stop. A good suggestion is to remove the 220 off Albany Hey and run it via Shepperton Road, as per the 219, then make the 930 Limited Stops from VPTS to Thornlie. The short working 220's would pick up the slack on Shepperton Road
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby ozi_mister_d » Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:55 pm

remove the 220 off Albany Hey and run it via Shepperton Road, as per the 219, then make the 930 Limited Stops from VPTS to Thornlie. The short working 220's would pick up the slack on Shepperton


if the 220 was removed from Albany Hwy, there would be no service from Albany Hwy / Shepperton Rd / Welshpool Rd intersection to Bassinghall St, where the 178,179 enter Albany Hwy.
That's a fair chunk of East Vic Park with no service along the main shopping strip.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Off The Rails » Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:10 pm

You could counteract that by sending the 178 down Albany Hwy to Walpole St, and have more short 177's to cover the Berwick St drop in service.

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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Leyland B21 » Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:03 am

Off The Rails wrote:You could counteract that by sending the 178 down Albany Hwy to Walpole St, and have more short 177's to cover the Berwick St drop in service.

Cheers! :wink:
You could also run 178 along Albany Hwy to Boundary Rd and giving that a service again since deletion of routes 10, 12, 13, 3, 4 ,6

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