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Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby insert_coin » Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:57 pm

:roll: just as I thought.....
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby weeny25 » Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:02 pm

Hi all,
I was just playing around with google transit in different cities. I'm not a local, so I don't really know much about Perth's transport except for it's trains. I put in a hypothetical trip from the Airport's International Terminal to Kalamunda at 2pm on a weekday, and by car it gave me a journey time of 20 minutes. By public transport? An astonishing 1 hour and 56 minutes, or an hour and a half if I commenced my journey at 3-4 o'clock. I thought Transperth was a good managing authority of PT, but it seems that the airport must be some sort of PT black hole?

It recommended me to walk 2.6 kilometres (!) from the international terminal to Abernathy road, catch a 298 to Maida Vale, catch the 283 to Kalamunda, and then a 283 to my hypothetical destination. Is there any reason why transport is so shocking, it seems there is no public transport at all to the international terminal! The same trip from the domestic terminal requires a 1.5km walk, and then a 299 to Kalamunda, which is a journey time of 43 minutes total, which is decent. However, it looks like the only bus service at the domestic terminal is the 37 to Kings Park, hardly direct or frequent...
I really thought Perth was some sort of bus-train interchange mecca but it seems to be falling short. Perhaps a bus between Bayswater and the Domestic & International terminals, meeting every train, would solve this issue?
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby laptop15 » Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:47 pm

Once the Airport is upgraded there will be a rail line - it is in planning, but for now all there is is the 37.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby 900 series » Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:27 pm

weeny25 wrote:Hi all,
I was just playing around with google transit in different cities. I'm not a local, so I don't really know much about Perth's transport except for it's trains. I put in a hypothetical trip from the Airport's International Terminal to Kalamunda at 2pm on a weekday, and by car it gave me a journey time of 20 minutes. By public transport? An astonishing 1 hour and 56 minutes, or an hour and a half if I commenced my journey at 3-4 o'clock. I thought Transperth was a good managing authority of PT, but it seems that the airport must be some sort of PT black hole?

It recommended me to walk 2.6 kilometres (!) from the international terminal to Abernathy road, catch a 298 to Maida Vale, catch the 283 to Kalamunda, and then a 283 to my hypothetical destination. Is there any reason why transport is so shocking, it seems there is no public transport at all to the international terminal! The same trip from the domestic terminal requires a 1.5km walk, and then a 299 to Kalamunda, which is a journey time of 43 minutes total, which is decent. However, it looks like the only bus service at the domestic terminal is the 37 to Kings Park, hardly direct or frequent...
I really thought Perth was some sort of bus-train interchange mecca but it seems to be falling short. Perhaps a bus between Bayswater and the Domestic & International terminals, meeting every train, would solve this issue?


Yeah, the airport is a major black hole - albeit mainly a Transperth one, rather than public transport in general (there's still the overpriced Perth Airport Connect bus service, but it isn't Transperth and so doesn't show up on Google Transit.) Also, around three years ago they re-routed the 36 and 40 buses to Perth Domestic Airport, operating every half hour in addition to the 37 operating every twenty minutes (later changed to every half hour to the airport as per today), but pulled out a year later citing "revised road layouts being unsuitable for bus operations."

Mind you, I suspect some board members reckon it's all a ploy to promote the aforementioned Connect service, at supersized fares going straight to the airport.

Only thing is that Bayswater, in its present form, isn't much of a bus/train transfer space - yes, the CircleRoute stops there but it's a couple of bus stops on each side of the road, not a proper interchange. Though it might be possible to repurpose the 'nature strip' to the north of the station.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby insert_coin » Sun Dec 25, 2011 8:02 pm

I would suggest that the "Corporation" has given a lame excuse about or regarding congestion, even though the bus lane itself is NOT affected by any congestion and told Tp to eff off politely speaking. I'm not 100% on this but I've been monitoring the dead running into and out of the area and it is simply ludicrous, leading me to conclude that sWAn (from what I've seen) aren't that incompetent to warrant such behaviour out of their own volition. I believe (and stand willingly corrected) thatthis is plainly an economical decision made by the "Corporation"....that IMO is arrogant, ignorant and very greedy to the detriment of the general public.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby I love the old buses » Sun Jan 01, 2012 1:44 am

i would like to make the 554 non accsessible :D and also have it run from Monday - Saturday 20mins Peak, 43mins off peak, more night services and that would be 49mins last service around 8:20pm and the first service around 6:00am

Saturday 60mins first service 9:00am last service 6:00pm
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby 900 series » Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:00 pm

I love the old buses wrote:43mins off peak, more night services and that would be 49mins last service around 8:20pm


Those frequencies are a bit random though? You'd never get that to connect properly with the trains, never mind memorise the timetable.
Better to have either half-hourly or hourly frequencies off-peak, and some multiple of ten - preferably not 40 or 50! - during peak hour (twenty works fine though)
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby insert_coin » Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:12 pm

Doesn't make sense to me, considering there is a BP and other petroleum products in the same area. I was told it was to do with the break up of the contract areas, ie Guildford Rd services run out of Bayswater.
If that is the case...it's ridiculous. Cart before the horse and back to front planning policy.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Mr OC Benz » Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:34 pm

I love the old buses wrote:i would like to make the 554 non accsessible :D and also have it run from Monday - Saturday 20mins Peak, 43mins off peak, more night services and that would be 49mins last service around 8:20pm and the first service around 6:00am

Saturday 60mins first service 9:00am last service 6:00pm


That's just asking for a scheduling nightmare...

There are no routes in the system that are "non-accessible" or high floor only, however there are services which are only allowed low floor buses. Sounds very unrealistic what you have suggested.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Off The Rails » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:26 pm

I would create a new route 247 that runs around the back roads in Armadale/Kelmscott. From Armadale stn the route will be: L Armadale stn, L onto Forest Road, R Twelfth rd, L Armadale rd, R Lake rd, L Ranford rd, R Mcneill rd, L Lake rd, R Champion dr, L Gillam dr, L Burns rd, L Shawfield st, L Regina rd / Ravenscroft wy, R Westfield rd, R Camillo rd, L Banyard av, R Railway av, L into Kelmscott stn. The 247 To Armadale stn from Kelmscott stn will be the opposite of the planed route above. Times will be: 30 min Offpeak, 15 min Peak Mon-Fri, Sat 60 mins, Sun 90 mins. The 247 will be Assessible. But an Articulated bus will be used during Peak.

Cheers!
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby I love the old buses » Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:41 am

i like that route 1592!
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Leyland B21 » Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:57 am

Id re-route routes 251,252,253 to take in the new estates growing around Byford and increase the service freqeuncy to 20 mins peak and hourly off peak
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Leyland B21 » Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:07 am

Ahhh Byford Services are on the cards already. Cheers Phil :)
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby 900 series » Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:02 am

TP 1592 wrote:Times will be: 45 min Offpeak, 20 min Peak Mon-Fri, Sat 45 mins, Sun 90 mins. The 247 will be Assessible. But an Articulated bus will be used during Peak.

Cheers!


Again though, you might want to rethink the frequencies - hardly anything in Perth runs every 45 minutes - either 30 or 60 (unless you want to go all out crazy and make it 15!), and the 20 minute peak frequency wouldn't connect with the trains which are still every 15 minutes, plus a few extra services in between (but there are only two or three of these each peak period, so are useless for general frequency planning).

Presumably that artic be used only for a handful of 'N' trips? Otherwise you'd have a hard time getting it listed as an accessible route...

Looking forward to Byford changes - actually having a service at all on Sunday on the 252 and 253 would also be nice - we'll have to wait and see...
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Off The Rails » Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:17 am

Cat wrote:Presumably that artic be used only for a handful of 'N' trips? Otherwise you'd have a hard time getting it listed as an accessible route...


Hopefully :roll: when SR gets 2 vovlo artics 1 maybe used. But thats a big maybe for 2 artics.

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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Off The Rails » Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:20 pm

I have thought up another route: the 238. The 238 would run between Kelmscott stn and Gosnells stn. From Kelmscott stn the 238 would go like this: R Railway av / Corfield rd, R Harry st, R Harold st, L Eileen st, L Seaforth av, L May st, R Croft st, R Dorothy st, L Wheatley st, R into Gosnells stn. From Gosnells stn the 238 is the opposite of the proposed route above. Times is: 30 minutes Offpeak and Peak Mon-Fri, 60 minutes Sat, 120 minutes Sun. If rail replacement is on, the times will be half.

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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Leyland B21 » Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:42 pm

Good to see your ideas 1592, Great contributions indeed. But your route 238? it has no population density for the majority of the route. Eileen St has no houses behind the south side that im aware. I would see no need for this service IMO
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby route171 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:27 pm

What about a new service numbered 209 from a stand at Thornlie Station via Spencer, Wilfred, Nicholson and High Roads, Herald Ave, Acanthus Rd, Malindi St, Apsley Rd, Karel, Parry and Camm Aves, Bull Creek Drv, Leach Highway to a stand at Bull Creek Station.

30 min peak, 60 min off peak and Saturdays.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby route171 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:46 pm

Perth - Kalamunda / Forrestfield Services Overhaul Ideas

Current Services:
282, 283, 286, 287, 288, 293, 296, 299, 298

282, 283, 286-8 and 298 to be modified/deleted as part of my proposal.

New / to be modified services:

292, 305, 286, 287, 288, 289, 293, 298.

Services with no change:

296, 299.

Forrestfield Services:

The current 288 service takes forever to reach Forrestfield (and KAL on certain extension trips). This can be attributed to the fact that it travels via a myriad of side streets (Belmont etc) to reach Perth (and beyond). As this is a 'trunk' (or 'connecting') service for people who travel from Forrestifield, I propose that:

The 288 to undergo a route change;
The 286 and 287 to be deleted and portions replaced;
To be extended to Kalamunda;
To operate Express for a certain part of the trip.

The new 288 route would travel from a stand at the Busport, St. Georges and Adelaide Tce, Causeway, G. Eastern Highway, Orrong Road (or Abernethy Road), Leach Highway, Tonkin Highway, Hale, Hawtin and Kalamunda Roads to the KAL B/S. Last stop Hale / Tonkin, express to the city. Stops at VPTS upon request. (Perhaps this info should be added to the TT as was the case with former route 867 and Murdoch PnR)

Proposed frequency: 15 mins peak, 30 mins off peak, 60 mins weekends.
Forrestfield Forum to have a bus stand similar to that of the Ellenbrook "The Shops" for feeder services.

In conjunction with the main-line 288 service, two new feeders (287 and 286) to operate at a 15 min peak frequency, hourly off peak and weekends via the following route:

287: From a stand at Forrestfield Forum, buses will depart 3 minutes after arrival of the 288 and travel via Hale Road, Fite St, Sussex Road, Northumberland Road, Harewood St, Edinburgh, Lincoln, Jubilee, Lewis, Anderson and Hale Roads, then via Berkshire, Bougainvillea Roads, Dawson Ave, Hale Road to Forrestfield Forum.

297: From a stand at Forrestfield Forum, departing times as per 287 via Hale Road, Strelitzia Ave, Bougainvillea Ave, Berkshire Road, Apricot St, Sultana Road East, Azalea Gardens to a terminus near Camelia Loop. Returning via Hawtin and Sultana Roads and as per forward journey.

Kalamunda / Lesmurdie Services.

Current 282 and 283 services to be deleted;
Sections around Lesmurdie to be replaced by circular feeders 292 and 305.

Proposed frequency: 15 mins peak, 30 mins off peak, 60 mins weekends.

292 (Clockwise) and 305 (Anti-Clockwise): From a stand at Kalamunda Bus Station, via Canning Road, Recreation, Peet, Cotherstone, Canning Roads, Grove, Lesmurdie, Grove, George, Gladys, Welshpool and Lesmurdie Roads, then via Canning Road, Stanhope, Hinkler and Mundaring Wier roads to Kalamunda BS.

High Wycombe Services.

Existing 298 to be deleted and replaced by route 289. Connects with 296 and 299 services at Kalamunda near Stirling Cres;
As for the 296 / 299 services, as they provide the link along Great Eastern Highway they should be kept as they are.

289 will travel via the following route at a 20 minute peak period frequency only.

From bus stop 14047 (Kalamunda Rd after Stirling Cr), via Kalamunda, Wittenoom, Macao, Marshall, Sorensen, Newburn, Maida Vale and Priory Roads to a terminus near Kalamunda Road.
Returning via forward journey.

Route 293

More residents are moving into the Belgravia Road estate. As a result, a better service to and from the city and via Belmont Forum will / may be required in the future. Therefore I propose a new 293 which will travel a slightly modified route. It should be implemented when patronage levels are enough to sustain the route.

It will travel as for normal 293 route.
Frequency: 30 mins peak in both directions (i.e. to serve the Welshpool Rd industrial area).

____


Thanks in anticipation.
Regards,
Rob.
Last edited by route171 on Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby 900 series » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:57 pm

Haven't had a detailed look yet, but one thing that jumps out at me:

route171 wrote:Proposed frequency: 15 mins peak, 30 mins off peak, 60 mins weekends.
Forrestfield Forum to have a bus stand similar to that of the Ellenbrook "The Shops" for feeder services.

In conjunction with the main-line 288 service, two new feeders (287 and 297) to operate at a 20 min peak frequency, hourly off peak and weekends via the following route:


(emphasis added)

When planning connecting feeder services, it is generally best for the frequency of one route to be a multiple of the other. A 15/20 scenario is currently used for the Midland Line/Route 300 connections, and it really doesn't work. Better would be to use something like one of the following:

-287, 297 every 20 minutes, 288 every 10
-287, 297 every 30 minutes, 288 every 15
-All routes every 15 minutes
-etc.

This way, every feeder service can be scheduled to connect with a trunk service with consistently good connection times.

Edit Also the 297 already exists - Midland to Kalamunda
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby jonwil » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:34 pm

Cat wrote:Presumably that artic be used only for a handful of 'N' trips? Otherwise you'd have a hard time getting it listed as an accessible route...

Thats what 3000, 3001, 3002, 3003 and soon 3004, 3005 and beyond are for :)
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby route171 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:29 pm

Cat wrote:Haven't had a detailed look yet, but one thing that jumps out at me:

route171 wrote:Proposed frequency: 15 mins peak, 30 mins off peak, 60 mins weekends.
Forrestfield Forum to have a bus stand similar to that of the Ellenbrook "The Shops" for feeder services.

In conjunction with the main-line 288 service, two new feeders (287 and 297) to operate at a 20 min peak frequency, hourly off peak and weekends via the following route:


(emphasis added)

When planning connecting feeder services, it is generally best for the frequency of one route to be a multiple of the other. A 15/20 scenario is currently used for the Midland Line/Route 300 connections, and it really doesn't work. Better would be to use something like one of the following:

-287, 297 every 20 minutes, 288 every 10
-287, 297 every 30 minutes, 288 every 15
-All routes every 15 minutes
-etc.

This way, every feeder service can be scheduled to connect with a trunk service with consistently good connection times.

Edit Also the 297 already exists - Midland to Kalamunda


D'oh! Why hadn't that occured to me earlier? :roll:

Thanks, Cat, for pointing that out.


P.S. My original post will be modified to suit the changes.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby jonwil » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:47 pm

Someone on another forum I read suggested this "Inner Circle Route"
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Inner-Cit ... 8019393696
I don't see the whole route as having merit but I do think that a link from Victoria Park via Plain Street, East Parade and then through via Mt Lawely station through to connect with Beaufort Street services would be useful if it allowed one to bypass the CBD traffic snarls and mess (which is only going to get messier as the various development projects advance further) and the crowds at the Busport.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Leyland B21 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:21 pm

Id personally extend the 527 to Armadale Interchange. Continue via Lyon Rd, L Wandi Dve, L De Haer rd, R Rowley Rd, R Nicholson Rd, L Rowley Rd, R Hopkinson rd, L Rowley Rd, R Eleventh Rd, L Wungong Rd, L Harber Dve, R Tijuana rd. L Farmer Ave, R Chadwick Pde, R Powell Cres, L Mornington St, R Townley St, L Avonlee Rd, Church Ave, L Fourth Rd, L Commerce Ave and into the interchange. Reverse direction is reverse of above.

Deletion of route 250 required.
Deletion of Duri St to give public transport to Armadale Recreation Centre. Hence the move to Mornington St.
Reasonable catchment along Rowley Rd, Wandi Dve giving access to surrounding areas / estates that are appearing.
Services can be shortened where necessary like in route 519s case. 15 min peak service between Cnr Rowley Rd & Lyon Rd / Cockburn Central. 15 min Peak service Cnr Hopkinson & Rowley Rd & Armadale.
30 minute service between 6am 7pm for the section between Hopkinson Rd & Lyon Rd. Hourly service between 5am & 6am /7pm & 10pm. (10pm - 12am only ex Cockburn to Wandi only)
Service would be rostered under both Canning Vale & Southern River to minimalise some dead running. Fair distance between Rowley rd - Canning Vale and Hopkinson Rd / Rowley Rd - Southern River. Last Shift ex Cockburn - Armadale (Full Trip) roster = Southern River, Last Trip Ex Armadale - Cockburn Roster (Full Trip) = Canning Vale

Jase
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby 900 series » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:54 am

Leyland B21 wrote:R Nicholson Rd, L Rowley Rd, R Eleventh Rd


I think you're missing R Hopkinson Rd, L Rowley Rd.

Leyland B21 wrote:L Farmer Ave, R Ninth Rd, R Chadwick Pde, R Powell Cres


Is Ninth Road supposed to be there? It seems to mess up the directions, which work fine without it.

With regards to the scheduling, presumably we'd still have weekend services at least at current levels on the 527 and 250?
Also I take it the services would be scheduled to connect at Cockburn Central as a priority (only fitting in a connection at Armadale if it is possible without sabotaging Cockburn Central)? Except of course for the Armadale short-workings, which would have scheduled connections at Armadale station?
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