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Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby route171 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:55 pm

293 to Kewdale Abernethy Rd and will terminate there.


Does anyone use the 293? I mean, it operates against peak flow, so I was wondering if it attracks a lot of patronage.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Mr OC Benz » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:08 pm

The objective for that operating against peak flow is probably for the industrial workers. i.e. There wouldn't be a service there if it wasn't...
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby insert_coin » Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:43 pm

TBH I didn’t like this 130 at first….it seems at first glance to be a mass duplication of routes that have simply been enjoined.
It’s very “macro” in its approach…something I think is very much a signature of yours Mr OC Benz (I’m generally quite micro).

1) Why “130” - where’d you pluck this seemingly random number from, and why?
2) The Belmont to DAP via Redcliffe section is an awkward section, and it’s more onerous than the current 37 by traversing the current 284 deviation via GEH. Can’t quite as yet get around a good (better) outcome here.
3) The frequencies are slightly excessive* in some areas

However, after some scrutiny I can see some good planning (lap it up agent 15) and there’s not a lot to dislike. It’s akin to the 98-99 in the sense that it can run short-leg segments according to demand at various times of the day/night.

Freo – Garden City….great shopper service
GC – Curtin…..great DIRECT connector for students
Curtin – The Park Centre….another great shopper service…though Adie Court I seriously think is a must!
…….I’d consider (maybe) traversing Adie - R Jarrah - L Hill View - L Albany - R Mint etc

Good nonetheless, and *should be run in conjunction – as far as possible – with existing services to avoid, in a sense, robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Now that, would be the challenge...but not insurmountable.

A quick thought.....if the new GEH upgrade includes a 4-way intersection at Abernethy....this would allow for a direct service from Belmont Forum to GEH and serve the many firms popping up along here, then direct via GEH to DAP. Just an afterthought.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Mr OC Benz » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:20 pm

To be honest, I can't remember why I chose '130'. But there was a reasonable reason as I examined other ideas...
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Stig! » Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:47 am

A reasonable reason...priceless!
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby insert_coin » Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:59 pm

Well that's a reasonably reasonable reason for me not to reason with the logic.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Mr OC Benz » Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:50 pm

I vaguely remember now why I chose route 130. Reason behind it was a process of elimination and investigation. 900series don't seem suitable for such a route that goes from east to west. 800series was a likely candidate but that was quickly dismissed, 700series are school, 600series special events, 500series are SSR, 400series are NSR, 300series are North East/East, 200series are South East, 100series are random bits and bobs for Freo area and the 170's. I figured that I'd want a number which would blend in a bit with its surrounds, I didn't want to go too low. i.e. 108 or something because those ones seem to be for Perth-Freo services, I also didn't want to use 110series as they seem to be for expansion. 140-160 are the western routes through Booragoon and Attadale, Canning Hwy etc... Since this service travels via Canning Hwy, through Booragoon, Leach Hwy (near 170 routes) I decided that a route ending in "0" would be suitable. So couldn't of been 100 because it is already used, 110 does not fit my criteria, 120 could but I think the numbering is still too low, 140/150/160/170 are taken, and I also thought 180 and 190 would be too high and odd for the Western area. So I chose 130!

Confusing explanation? Ah well, time for bed...
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby wayfarer » Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:55 am

no, the 0 on the end is because he's still got an old tram route on the mind ;)
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby insert_coin » Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:12 pm

Mr OC Benz wrote:I vaguely remember now why I chose route 130. Reason behind it was a process of elimination and investigation. 900series don't seem suitable for such a route that goes from east to west. 800series was a likely candidate but that was quickly dismissed, 700series are school, 600series special events, 500series are SSR, 400series are NSR, 300series are North East/East, 200series are South East, 100series are random bits and bobs for Freo area and the 170's. I figured that I'd want a number which would blend in a bit with its surrounds, I didn't want to go too low. i.e. 108 or something because those ones seem to be for Perth-Freo services, I also didn't want to use 110series as they seem to be for expansion. 140-160 are the western routes through Booragoon and Attadale, Canning Hwy etc... Since this service travels via Canning Hwy, through Booragoon, Leach Hwy (near 170 routes) I decided that a route ending in "0" would be suitable. So couldn't of been 100 because it is already used, 110 does not fit my criteria, 120 could but I think the numbering is still too low, 140/150/160/170 are taken, and I also thought 180 and 190 would be too high and odd for the Western area. So I chose 130!

Confusing explanation? Ah well, time for bed...



900 series....we all know they're not going to implement the system 21 routes, and it still, I think, is a great option for long-haul, hi-priority/visibility "BIG" services....aka the 130, which is typical with it's cross-metropolitan range and this could even include a re-badge of the longest/biggest mother of them all....the circle-route from 98-99 to 998-999. It's fitting to have the longest-route service, with the largest catchment and patronage have the highest numbers (unless we get 4-number digital destos).


Wayfarer - every tram number I've seen was just a number, eg 1 , 2, 8, 15, 29, 35 etc. Or are these Freo tram routes?
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby UQB709 » Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:32 pm

Have to disagree there Mr i_c regarding the 98/99.

I think high, long route numbers make a network look more complicated to the casual or infrequent user. Adelaide takes this to the ultimate extreme with route numbers which include various mixtures of numbers and letters - ridiculous combinations which look more like password combinations than an easy way to get around (taking just one timetable at random, the route numbers include J1A, J1C, J1X, J2, J2A, J2X and 162). I'm in favour of high quality, frequent trunk routes having low route numbers - certainly no more than two digits.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby insert_coin » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:17 pm

Funny though, Adelaide patronage has traditionally always been better than Perth and much better utilised. We're booming...so we're experiencing a bit of an unnatural bursting at the seams in quite a few areas.
People aren't stupid!!! I keep trying to say this. They know what they have to do. There are many harder things in life than trying to catch a bus that has more than 2 digits. If it weren't so, then the (here in Perth) 100-101, 102, 106, 111, 354, 400-08, 501, 507, 558, 88x series, Rail-replacements, 920, 940 - you get the drift I'm sure - wouldn't carry hardly a soul, yet that is hardly the case.....and these are all high profile services. What next, destinations that only show suburbs with 2 letters or less???? let me see, NP, SP, M ("sorry driver, are you going to Midland, Mandurah, Morley or Manning?"). Come on, the more info - provided it's not displayed in a confusing manner - the better.
As for the casual user....would this be the hardest thing in their life to deal with? Cater for the masses, and the others will follow suit if they wish.

And what about Sydney UQB709? The routes are prefixed with either E, L, M or X....and that is just on a route that contains many other routes that utilise the same method. Have a good look at Anzac Rd or Military Rd services....and guess what.....THEY COPE a lot better than here....and that is from experience. Treat people like morons by continually taking away their ability to decipher things and you'll end up with an ever dumbed-down descension into even further idiocy...just as is happening in the education system.
I think it's always the same scenario, from the top right down (Govts', planners). They want patronage to increase yet they patronise the masses. Or is it vice versa?
Sorry old chump, but I think you're clinging to old ideolgy here.
What next....core times? :lol:
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby UQB709 » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:52 am

LMAO Mr i_c - you knew that line about core times would be an insult I couldn't let pass.... ;)

I think we'll have to agree to disagree here. I think where you are a little off track is in calling me old school on this issue though - quite to the contrary, I'd call going nuts with a range of route numbers which fit someone's personal mathematical dreams the old school train of thought...

I also don't consider making PT easier to use as treating passengers like idiots at all - more a question of common sense and marketing. Its not the existing passengers that I think about - its the ones who haven't even thought of using us that I'm considering. I've got nothing against using E for Express for example- in fact it makes a lot more sense than the MTT's trend to numbering expresses with numbers ending in 66.

Having said all that, to be honest, route numbers, aside from an interest in them purely from a historical perspective, don't really get me going - I've certainly got no religious fervour on it unlike some people around :P
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby insert_coin » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:59 am

Insult??? so it was you, in the late 70s who introduced the core times in the first place heh? Not a bad effort for a 2-3 year old! :D
Now you know I wouldn't insult you old chump......I respect your opinions, just love arguing :twisted:

Seriously, public transport is already relatively easy to use. Route numbers with letter-letter-number combinations....how hard can it be? Most if not all of us grapple with multiple passwords and pin numbers that use far greater combinations of mixed symbols, numbers and letters (upper and lower case thrown in for good measure) for a multitude of things on a daily basis - the world has progressed. The hard part is making PT attractive and convenient.
Ouch, you got me with the express 6 suffix bit..... can't deny that - I grew up with that but it wouldn't influence my planning sensibilities today in the least. I think, tbh, a lot of the people on here have an affinity for certain numbers simply because they grew up catching certain runs - the evidence is all around. But no, like you, I'm not too sentimental about it other than from an historic point of view. I'd rather see route number rationalisations - that is more relevant and current; eg 500 series SSR, 400 NSR etc. It looks neater and makes the overall communication clearer....but that actually IS my personal preference and not due to any passenger concerns. As I said, they'll figure it out....they've got far too many other more difficult considerations to make than deciphering grade one maths.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby UQB709 » Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:10 am

I guess my point is that simple logic works best, which doesn't mean making it too simple, just quickly apparent to the casual user. Basically you want something which is intuitive; more iPad than DOS. I had an experience recently in Brisbane, where I was waiting for a bus at a busway station; the route numbering convention, if there was one, was not immediately apparent, making it harder to work out which of the approaching services I should board- and there were a lot of routes!

We probably are pretty much in furious agreement anyway.... :) Even the x66 scheme had it's benefits, more for staff than anyone else though I suspect.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby insert_coin » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:59 pm

Yeah, I clung to that "6" thing right up until recently for some apparently strange reason - but fresh blood convinced me of its irrelevance, so that was a positive.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Mr OC Benz » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:35 pm

Was told by a relative that apparantly Carbridge are now providing free shuttle access between the Perth International Airport and Domestic Airport where you can then hop on a 37 service. The bus stops conveniently right in front of the Transperth bus stand at the Domestic Airport.

Previously it costed $8 on the Inter-terminal transfer and that was only available for transferring passengers. This has now extended to those who wish to catch the Transperth 37 service from the Domestic Terminal. I don't know the full story, but I believe this is the case now. They only recently moved the Transperth stand for the 37 service from the far end of Terminal 3 to Terminal 2 and right next to the other buses.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby insert_coin » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:15 pm

Well noted. About time too that the TP service was given a higher status/prominence - though all things considered you can't blame the airport for pushing their "connect" brand hard - it's lucrative.
We (all of us - come out designers) could develop a TP business/high profile plan to get regular services into the airport - something with a clear cut branding that will grow and stick over time.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby Mr OC Benz » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:20 pm

At a Public Meeting for Public Transport in Perth undertaken privately by some University, the biggest response from the public was about the lack of a decent and adequate public bus service to the Domestic and International Terminal. It is certainly a hot topic around the place which may of helped to influence plans.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby jonwil » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:50 pm

Given that there is clearly a demand for it, I dont see why they dont reinstate the direct route to the airport. Unless its "political" and Transperth/State Govt don't want to annoy the airport mob by competing too much with the shuttle services...
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby laptop15 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:56 pm

Annoy them? That means getting rid of competition which is against what the government is striving for. Its still federal land, who cares what the airport says? Im pretty sure it was roadworks/no space for TP buses that TP stoped the 36 and 40 going there. Also note the 37 recently had a tt change (Sunday upgrade) so it may be a while before any other changes?
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby route171 » Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:00 pm

Route 37 takes the most indirect route to the Domestic Airport..
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby busdriver12 » Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:56 pm

route171 wrote:Route 37 takes the most indirect route to the Domestic Airport..


It's intent is not to be an airport route - it just happens to have it's terminus there. If there was any intent, there would be an express service along Gt Eastern Hwy.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby jonwil » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:07 pm

I got a question for all the route boffins and thinkers around here, if you were in charge and didn't have to consider politics, are there any routes, stops, services, or otherwise that you would completely delete? I dont mean delete and replace with something new, I mean delete because (in your opinion) they just cant be justified (and are likely only kept around for political reasons)
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby route171 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:15 pm

^^Think route 205. Most if not all the area traversed is currently served by existing routes at a better frequency.
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Re: Bus Routes - What would you do if you were in charge?

Postby insert_coin » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:50 pm

^^^can't argue with that - it's a full-on "lobbied" waste of money.
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