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O-Bahn commuters left behind by full buses

Adelaide / South Australia Transport Discussion

O-Bahn commuters left behind by full buses

Postby jibb » Tue May 22, 2018 2:09 pm

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Re: O-Bahn commuters left behind by full buses

Postby tonyp » Tue May 22, 2018 4:56 pm

Well this is the risk you take when you go for the BRT option on a corridor, rather than tram or train. Brisbane is now hitting that wall. Each mode has its now well-defined capacity and it's up to the planners and government to determine the level of capacity required for the level of urban development and activity planned along any particular corridor. If the wrong mode is chosen, then urban development has to be constrained by the capacity of the mode serving it.

My two questions would be:

1. Is the O Bahn now fully served by artics?
2. Is it possible to get closer headways with these artics to wring a bit more capacity out of it?

The O Bahn has been a very successful transport solution. It would be a pity if it couldn't continue to do its job effectively.
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Re: O-Bahn commuters left behind by full buses

Postby jibb » Tue May 22, 2018 5:28 pm

The O-Bahn has a mixture of Artics and Rigids providing services. Many of these buses then do non-O-Bahn journeys when they are not needed during the day, including a dozen or so to provide non-O-Bahn services during peaks.
The O-Bahn can operate with buses spaced 20 seconds apart(they have been seen closer than that).
There is capacity available should at some stage in the future the Government decide to purchase additional buses for the O-Bahn to increase services.
It will be interesting to see what Torrens Transit(Transit Systems Australia) does when it takes over the O-Bahn and North-South routes on July 1st.
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Re: O-Bahn commuters left behind by full buses

Postby TA3001 » Tue May 22, 2018 7:18 pm

tonyp wrote:Well this is the risk you take when you go for the BRT option on a corridor, rather than tram or train. Brisbane is now hitting that wall. Each mode has its now well-defined capacity and it's up to the planners and government to determine the level of capacity required for the level of urban development and activity planned along any particular corridor. If the wrong mode is chosen, then urban development has to be constrained by the capacity of the mode serving it.

My two questions would be:

1. Is the O Bahn now fully served by artics?
2. Is it possible to get closer headways with these artics to wring a bit more capacity out of it?

The O Bahn has been a very successful transport solution. It would be a pity if it couldn't continue to do its job effectively.


There are just over 90 rigids, compared to around 60 artics at St Agnes. This should answer the question. But a higher percentage of artics do O'bahn runs than what the rigids do. The latter are often used for straight 'silver' shifts 7 days a week.

During quieter times, you won't see a heap of artics on track work, even on M44s leaving stop F2 at 5PM on a Saturday.
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Re: O-Bahn commuters left behind by full buses

Postby jibb » Tue May 22, 2018 8:16 pm

TA3001 wrote:
tonyp wrote:Well this is the risk you take when you go for the BRT option on a corridor, rather than tram or train. Brisbane is now hitting that wall. Each mode has its now well-defined capacity and it's up to the planners and government to determine the level of capacity required for the level of urban development and activity planned along any particular corridor. If the wrong mode is chosen, then urban development has to be constrained by the capacity of the mode serving it.

My two questions would be:

1. Is the O Bahn now fully served by artics?
2. Is it possible to get closer headways with these artics to wring a bit more capacity out of it?

The O Bahn has been a very successful transport solution. It would be a pity if it couldn't continue to do its job effectively.


There are just over 90 rigids, compared to around 60 artics at St Agnes. This should answer the question. But a higher percentage of artics do O'bahn runs than what the rigids do. The latter are often used for straight 'silver' shifts 7 days a week.


During quieter times, you won't see a heap of artics on track work, even on M44s leaving stop F2 at 5PM on a Saturday.


You are not totally correct there -You will find plenty of rigids on the track at all times of the day,including peaks. Apart from a couple in the workshops at peak times, about 10 of them are used on non-O-Bahn runs in the peak. As for Artics they are in use most times of the day except for say"After Midnight" journeys on Sunday morning,and early am Sunday morning trips.
The Artics are certainly in use during the day and evenings on weekends on normal timetabled services.
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Re: O-Bahn commuters left behind by full buses

Postby bigrobbo » Wed May 23, 2018 9:39 pm

A really silly thought entered my head today. It may work. It may not.

And it may have to come with extra services. May have to.

You leave the track at TTP, you run express from the city to TTP.

You leave the track at Paradise, you run express to Paradise.

Run a C1T every 5 minutes to service all interchanges.

Bam - overcrowding of people wanting to get off at Klemzig and Paradise is gone.


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Re: O-Bahn commuters left behind by full buses

Postby Myrtone » Thu May 24, 2018 7:59 pm

How about replacing it with a new heavy rail line? After all, it runs in a creek valley and is grade separated.
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Re: O-Bahn commuters left behind by full buses

Postby jibb » Thu May 24, 2018 8:07 pm

Myrtone wrote:How about replacing it with a new heavy rail line? After all, it runs in a creek valley and is grade separated.

One of the key successes of the O-Bahn that rail cannot compete with is its flexibility-to be able to continue off-the-track at Interchanges.
Passengers do not like having to wait at Interchanges for their next onward bus.
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Re: O-Bahn commuters left behind by full buses

Postby TA3001 » Thu May 24, 2018 10:30 pm

And is there any solution on the cards to address the ride quality along the track? I heard some rumour about mentioned a little while ago about some new Volvos being ordered.

Yes the SL202s and the Mercs weren't exactly like modern Volgrens, but they didn't do engines frequently whilst bouncing up and down at a speed that is 15kph lower than what it was in around 2012
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Re: O-Bahn commuters left behind by full buses

Postby jibb » Thu May 24, 2018 11:13 pm

TA3001 wrote:And is there any solution on the cards to address the ride quality along the track? I heard some rumour about mentioned a little while ago about some new Volvos being ordered.

Yes the SL202s and the Mercs weren't exactly like modern Volgrens, but they didn't do engines frequently whilst bouncing up and down at a speed that is 15kph lower than what it was in around 2012

It is now over 3 months since tenders closed for 400 new buses over the next 10 years-so far no announcements by the new Government of the results.
So it would appear at this stage apart from a few Custom Scanias trickling through there are as yet no new buses ordered.
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Re: O-Bahn commuters left behind by full buses

Postby marc506 » Thu May 24, 2018 11:46 pm

Myrtone wrote:How about replacing it with a new heavy rail line? After all, it runs in a creek valley and is grade separated.


The ground one which the track is built is unsuitable for carrying heavy rail because of soil movement
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Re: O-Bahn commuters left behind by full buses

Postby Eagle Eye » Fri May 25, 2018 9:30 am

The capacity of the track is limited by the size of the fleet and the available spending money in terms of how many services the government wish to pay for, and there hasn't been any real increase to services for at least 4 years.

In the time before Scanias were introduced, there were approx. 64 rigids (421-423, 425-439, 441-443, 445 & 501-542) and approx. 51 artics (545-595) on the O-Bahn. This worked out to roughly 44% of the fleet being artics.

At present it's more like 107 rigids and only 66 artics which is roughly 38% of the fleet being artics.

Therefore as patronage has grown over the years, the proportion of artics has dropped off because the government continues to mainly introduce rigids to the O-Bahn. How many artics do Torrens Transit and SouthLink have that only carry moderate loads that could be put to better use on the O-Bahn?
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Re: O-Bahn commuters left behind by full buses

Postby jibb » Fri May 25, 2018 9:54 am

Will be interesting to see when Torrens Transit takes over in July whether they will eventually transfer some of their newer Artics onto the O_Bahn?
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Re: O-Bahn commuters left behind by full buses

Postby Merc1107 » Fri May 25, 2018 12:06 pm

jibb wrote:Will be interesting to see when Torrens Transit takes over in July whether they will eventually transfer some of their newer Artics onto the O_Bahn?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I'd heard (as an outsider) was that some vehicles had experienced structural (and mechanical) defects as a result of the high speeds and unsuitability for track work. My guess (and hope) would be loadings are reviewed and the use of articulated buses and their rosters altered to make better use of the vehicles to cater for trips experiencing particularly heavy loadings.
jibb wrote:One of the key successes of the O-Bahn that rail cannot compete with is its flexibility-to be able to continue off-the-track at Interchanges.
Passengers do not like having to wait at Interchanges for their next onward bus.
This is something I witness frequently in Perth's south-western suburbs, too, where passengers have the option of a modal change to rail or continuing on the bus straight into the city. Many peak passengers skip the modal change altogether.
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Re: O-Bahn commuters left behind by full buses

Postby moa999 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:25 am

In the not too distant future I'd see the o-bahn as perfect for an electric bus fleet.

Trolley poles on o-bahn section for charging and battery at each end.

Replace the guide wheel system with an automated system following a laser line
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Re: O-Bahn commuters left behind by full buses

Postby tonyp » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:03 pm

moa999 wrote:In the not too distant future I'd see the o-bahn as perfect for an electric bus fleet.

Trolley poles on o-bahn section for charging and battery at each end.

Replace the guide wheel system with an automated system following a laser line

I believe that the O Bahn track is designed for fitting stanchions for OHW.

In-motion charging is likely to be a significant solution to extend the range of electric articulated buses in particular, so it's a worthwhile consideration.
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Re: O-Bahn commuters left behind by full buses

Postby Eurostar » Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:53 pm

moa999 wrote:In the not too distant future I'd see the o-bahn as perfect for an electric bus fleet.

Trolley poles on o-bahn section for charging and battery at each end.

Replace the guide wheel system with an automated system following a laser line
The majority of commuters just want to get from a to b , majority of voters will see trolley buses as a waste of money, we haven't got bottomless pit of money.
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Re: O-Bahn commuters left behind by full buses

Postby tonyp » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:39 pm

Eurostar wrote:The majority of commuters just want to get from a to b , majority of voters will see trolley buses as a waste of money, we haven't got bottomless pit of money.

We're referring to electric buses which wil eventually replace diesels. Basically battery buses, but they will need some type of recharging infrastructure depending on the circumstances and progress of technology in coming years.
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