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Will trolleybuses return?

Adelaide / South Australia Transport Discussion

Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Postby The Inspector » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:18 pm

Skexis wrote:Trolley buses are not much use as they can't go anywhere that isn't wired.



Yes they can as they store power in batteries, the Auckland ones are capable of this but the distance is not that great.
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Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Postby The Inspector » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:19 pm

Heardy_101 wrote:I always thought about Trolley Buses on the O-Bahn. But the question with that is can a Trolley bus get to the same speeds on the O-Bahn.



Yes trolley buses can reach the same speed as a diesel or gas bus
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Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Postby The Inspector » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:20 pm

Heardy_101 wrote:Because if you're going to go to that length then may as well have a tram instead.

As much as it pains me to say this because I love the tangle of the overhead wires, but with modern technology we are steadily moving away from a need to have overhead. Sydney's new tram extension is an example of that.


Only in the city, the rest of the new extension has overhead
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Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Postby tonyp » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:02 pm

The Inspector wrote:
Skexis wrote:Trolley buses are not much use as they can't go anywhere that isn't wired.



Yes they can as they store power in batteries, the Auckland ones are capable of this but the distance is not that great.

Actually this is changing rapidly and they can move quite significant lengths off-wire. For example, there is a trial route in Prague where the buses are only running about 10% of the route on wire. These are basically dynamically-charged electric buses that recharge on the move on short sections of wire plus a section of overhead at the terminus and overnight charging.

I believe the O Bahn was built with stanchion bases for trolleybuses.
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Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Postby Myrtone » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:23 pm

The Inspector wrote:Yes they can as they store power in batteries, the Auckland ones are capable of this but the distance is not that great.

But they can charge while on the move, while a diesel or gas bus can go further on each tank but only be refueled while stationary and only in depots.

The Inspector wrote:Only in the city, the rest of the new extension has overhead

Even in the city, it is still electrified, with ground level power supply. This is a type of ground level power supply that only works for trams, not for buses.
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Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Postby tonyp » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:54 am

Here is an example of trolleybus flexibility currently in Pilsen where roadworks have interrupted the normal route and the trolleybus is taking a deviation off-wire:

Image
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Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Postby Myrtone » Sat May 19, 2018 6:44 pm

Check out the Save Wellington trolleybus group. They note that no bus can be more electric than a trolleybus and that Wellington is converting trolleybuses to battery buses to achieve what an overhead electric system already achieved.
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Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Postby 1whoknows » Sun May 20, 2018 8:30 am

And Wellington no longer has trolleybuses but is buying new fully electric buses - so that worked well didn't it?
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Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Postby tonyp » Sun May 20, 2018 9:14 am

1whoknows wrote:And Wellington no longer has trolleybuses but is buying new fully electric buses - so that worked well didn't it?

Trolleybuses ARE fully electric buses! Furthermore they drew their power in Wellington mainly from renewable geothermal energy, not from the environmentally detrimental process of manufacturing and ultimate disposal of batteries. Wellington is simply an cynical exercise in political and industry dishonesty.
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Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Postby Myrtone » Sun May 20, 2018 2:43 pm

Imagine if we removed overhead wires from our tramway network and converted our tram fleet to battery power just to achieve what that overhead electric system already did.
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Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Postby boronia » Sun May 20, 2018 4:05 pm

That small group of people who are offended by the sight of a length of wire up in the air would be elated.
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Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Postby Myrtone » Sun May 20, 2018 4:20 pm

Don't come to my city if you are offended by that.
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Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Postby flaneur » Tue May 22, 2018 3:59 pm

bus companies in Europe / US charge the batteries of their electric buses at terminals.
look up linkkerbus.com
As for electricity supply the same can apply at terminus with solar and battery backup, its only penny pinching and a dose of conservatism by the former State Government why the Seaford Line has no independent solar - battery supply and lack of foresight why the trains had no battery backup during a power outage which would have prevented passengers being off loaded along the railway corridor
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Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Postby moa999 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:50 am

An interesting update on Wellington trolleybus.

They've now got one trial bus fully converted to battery.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/103869 ... c-vehicles
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Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Postby tonyp » Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:48 pm

moa999 wrote:An interesting update on Wellington trolleybus.

They've now got one trial bus fully converted to battery.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/103869 ... c-vehicles

"Fully-electric vehicles". What weasel words - they were already fully-electric vehicles ffs! Well, this was predictable.
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Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Postby Myrtone » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:24 am

I wonder if anyone sees anything American about the idea that battery buses are the future. Think of Silicon Valley. Also, consider how much talk about battery electric vehicles and miracle batteries is coming out of the radical and freedom conscious U.S.A. Furthermore, straight electric traction has always been more common in Europe that it currently is in the 'States. A lot more tram and trolleybus systems survive in Europe than in, well, the same country that gave the world the personal computer and the internet. If any of you understand what I am trying to say.
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Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Postby Skexis » Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:30 pm

Interesting article that might be worth a read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_M ... conspiracy
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Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Postby Myrtone » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:25 pm

That doesn't seem to have anything to do with trolleybuses.
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Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Postby Myrtone » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:37 pm

Okay, there hasn't been any activity for a while. The fact is that Adelaide's tramway network has overhead wires throughout and has recently been expanded, presumably with more lines projected, all electrified throughout. But yet there are no plans for the return of trolleybuses, is this seen by others here as a double standard?
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Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Postby marc506 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:24 am

Myrtone wrote:Okay, there hasn't been any activity for a while. The fact is that Adelaide's tramway network has overhead wires throughout and has recently been expanded, presumably with more lines projected, all electrified throughout. But yet there are no plans for the return of trolleybuses, is this seen by others here as a double standard?


nope.

trolley buses just aren't needed and won't bring anything extra to the city's transit requirements to justify the time and expensive to bring back trolley buses.
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Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Postby Myrtone » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:17 am

It would just be a case of putting overhead wires along current bus routes and running trolleybuses along them instead of diesel or C.N.G buses. If trolleybuses aren't needed, are overhead wires needed on new tram extension as opposed to new trams using battery power on these new extensions.

Here are photos of the old Adelaide trolleybuses so all here know what trolleybuses and trolleybus wiring look like:
ImageImageImage
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Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Postby boronia » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:20 pm

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Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Postby tonyp » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:14 am

boronia wrote:Maybe this will solve the battery problem for buses? TonyP would approve of this one:

https://www.busnews.com.au/industry-news/1811/russian-electric-bus-trailering-mobile-battery-pack-wows-at-euro-show?utm_source=abc_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=article6_readmore&utm_campaign=09%2011%2018&utm_term=list_abc_newsletter

Then put trolley poles on the trailer to recharge the batteries.

Yes I saw that. Somehow I can't see that getting off the ground. Here's a stylised representation of in-motion charging which is the way the technology is heading:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OMdhZs5mok

That will get rid of all the messy junction and crossover wiring and leave just relatively short runs of straight wiring for recharging without downtime lost in stopping for recharge. The bus in this image has a trailer already of course and it's put to use carrying passengers!
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Re: Will trolleybuses return?

Postby Myrtone » Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:14 pm

As long as wires are cheaper to install than rails, then maybe use overhead power by default as is common in cities that still have trolleybuses.
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