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2018 timetable changes

Adelaide / South Australia Transport Discussion

2018 timetable changes

Postby hillsbus » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:05 pm

Now that the December 17 timetable changes are behind us, when will the next round of timetable changes be? The trains are meant to have 30 minute evening frequencies introduced - this may coincide with the Outer Harbour and Grange line reopening on the 15th of January? This may also lead to timetable changes for connecting buses on the Gawler and Seaford lines. Lastly no doubt there will be a tram timetable change when the East End line opens before March.
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Re: 2018 timetable changes

Postby jibb » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:13 pm

Also 30 minute weekend frequencies for trains.
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Re: 2018 timetable changes

Postby TA3001 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:06 pm

jibb wrote:Also 30 minute weekend frequencies for trains.


I was hoping for this almost 20 years ago.

Maybe in 2036, they'll introduce a daily cap for the Metrocard? There's no reason for it not to have one.
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Re: 2018 timetable changes

Postby Eurostar » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:52 am

hillsbus wrote:Now that the December 17 timetable changes are behind us, when will the next round of timetable changes be? The trains are meant to have 30 minute evening frequencies introduced - this may coincide with the Outer Harbour and Grange line reopening on the 15th of January? This may also lead to timetable changes for connecting buses on the Gawler and Seaford lines. Lastly no doubt there will be a tram timetable change when the East End line opens before March.


Its ok to change trains to half hour frequency but many issues would have to be resolved before doing so

Change of rostering.

Refuelling Diesels
electrics can stay out all the time but diesels need refuelling after a while on gawler line there is only Dry Creek Depot to do so because afaik there is only stabling facility at Gawler which may or may not have refuelling still. Outer Harbor Line has no depot, can't get them to Dry Creek via Wingfield because there is no broad gauge connection at Dry Creek , many spots a depot could go though I.e former Gillman yard. Grange Line has no depots. Belair Line has stabling facility at Belair but does it have refuelling faculties.
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Re: 2018 timetable changes

Postby Eagle Eye » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:46 am

Eurostar wrote:Its ok to change trains to half hour frequency but many issues would have to be resolved before doing so

Change of rostering.

Refuelling Diesels
electrics can stay out all the time but diesels need refuelling after a while on gawler line there is only Dry Creek Depot to do so because afaik there is only stabling facility at Gawler which may or may not have refuelling still. Outer Harbor Line has no depot, can't get them to Dry Creek via Wingfield because there is no broad gauge connection at Dry Creek , many spots a depot could go though I.e former Gillman yard. Grange Line has no depots. Belair Line has stabling facility at Belair but does it have refuelling faculties.

Yep, these "issues" are part of planning normal operations. Many diesels trains run continuously all day on weekdays including many stabling at Gawler and Belair Depots. Can't see weekends being an issue.

I just hope that the running times are tweaked a bit. The Seaford line timetable still uses running times for diesel trains and the Gawler weekend timetable is nearly impossible to run to - there's no slack in the timetable whatsoever.
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Re: 2018 timetable changes

Postby TA3001 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:13 am

How much time do you want the GC line services to have? I've seen one driver do it in 53 minutes years ago (on more than one occasion!), but before Mawson Lakes was built, and prior to the speed limits being lowered between North Adelaide and ARS. 54 minutes is the quickest I've seen on the down.

Perhaps the timetable could be adjusted to remove unnecessary time like the 3 minutes between Gawler and Evanston, and also Smithfield and Broadmeadows.

Not much has changed between Gawler and Smithfield that would affect the running times, yet 17 minutes is currently allocated.

It would be more optimal to have the timetable like this.

Gawler Central:1155
Smithfield:1211
Broadmeadows:1213
Womma:1215
Elizabeth:1218
Salisbury:1226
Greenfields:1233
Mawson Lakes: 1235
Islington:1245
Adelaide:1255

This evens things out a bit with reduced dwelling, and more realistic times in regards to busy stations. An hour should be sufficient at any time of year, or 62 minutes at the most.
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Re: 2018 timetable changes

Postby Eagle Eye » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:23 pm

It's mainly between Adelaide and Elizabeth which I'd tweak a bit. Biggest one for me is Chidda to Salisbury & Salisbury to Nurlutta at 2 minutes apiece. With the switching of tracks and major station that Salisbury is, I think there should be an extra minute either side of Salisbury. If there are any wheelchairs anywhere on the way, that adds a minute or two each time. Quite often on a weekend I've been on trains that get to Gawler Central up to 5 minutes late and by the time the driver changes ends and sometimes has a toilet break the up trip will start late and delays compound. Yes some trips can be done on time if everything is going right, but that's not very often. I also agree with evening the timetable out a bit and allowing for dwell time at the busier stations.
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Re: 2018 timetable changes

Postby thedom » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:55 pm

Eagle Eye wrote:It's mainly between Adelaide and Elizabeth which I'd tweak a bit. Biggest one for me is Chidda to Salisbury & Salisbury to Nurlutta at 2 minutes apiece. With the switching of tracks and major station that Salisbury is, I think there should be an extra minute either side of Salisbury. If there are any wheelchairs anywhere on the way, that adds a minute or two each time. Quite often on a weekend I've been on trains that get to Gawler Central up to 5 minutes late and by the time the driver changes ends and sometimes has a toilet break the up trip will start late and delays compound. Yes some trips can be done on time if everything is going right, but that's not very often. I also agree with evening the timetable out a bit and allowing for dwell time at the busier stations.



In the past few weeks even the weekend express ARS to Dry Creek has reached and departed Mawson Lakes on route to GC at least 4-5minutes late mainly due to the speed restrictions between ARS and Hawker Street. Let alone the 'all stopper' (exc. North Adelaide).

I don't believe the minute between Mawson and Greenfields is even enough time, trains seem to be departing Mawson interchange slower and 90+ seconds is a minimum for most trips start, stop and start again at this location.

Agreed, Salisbury is increasing patronage, more time should be given between preceding and post-stations.

Does anyone have a start date for the electrification to Salisbury? February/March 2018? That will likely change frequencies and travel times somewhat, though a mix of diesel and electric times might force a similar timetable to Seaford as complained somewhere above.
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Re: 2018 timetable changes

Postby TA3001 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:22 am

I also think that there is a bit of room for added time in the current 228 timetable in inter-peak. I reckon that it could have just under 20 minutes added to it which would have a positive effect in regards to on time running.

Instead of it leaving at 11:41 AM, it could leave at 11:31 AM with the following changes.

Dep A Smithfield at 11:31
Arr 61 Midway 11:53
Arr 45 Main North Rd at 12:11
Arr 29 Main North Rd at 12:28 (includes time to deploy the ramp for transferring passengers)
Timepoint for 25 Main North Rd removed.
Arr 17 Main North Rd at 12:45 (factors in delays at Gepps Cross, ramp use, congestion)
Arr D2 KW St at 13:08
Arr VS3 13:11

It would improve on time running a lot and significantly reduce complaints about late running. Even if it leaves Smithfield 14 minutes late, it can still arrive Gepps Cross on time.
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Re: 2018 timetable changes

Postby Eurostar » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:23 pm

TA3001 wrote:I also think that there is a bit of room for added time in the current 228 timetable in inter-peak. I reckon that it could have just under 20 minutes added to it which would have a positive effect in regards to on time running.

Instead of it leaving at 11:41 AM, it could leave at 11:31 AM with the following changes.

Dep A Smithfield at 11:31
Arr 61 Midway 11:53
Arr 45 Main North Rd at 12:11
Arr 29 Main North Rd at 12:28 (includes time to deploy the ramp for transferring passengers)
Timepoint for 25 Main North Rd removed.
Arr 17 Main North Rd at 12:45 (factors in delays at Gepps Cross, ramp use, congestion)
Arr D2 KW St at 13:08
Arr VS3 13:11

It would improve on time running a lot and significantly reduce complaints about late running. Even if it leaves Smithfield 14 minutes late, it can still arrive Gepps Cross on time.


224F and 228F should revert to no set down before stop 25, no pick up after stop 25. Or better still no set down before stop 29, no pick up after stop 29.
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Re: 2018 timetable changes

Postby Route 506 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:34 pm

224F and 228F should revert to no set down before stop 25, no pick up after stop 25. Or better still no set down before stop 29, no pick up after stop 29.[/quote]

Absolutely agree. All 224F-229F services should be First Set Down/Last Pick Up Stop 25 at least. 222 services are pretty regular to service stops 17-24
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Re: 2018 timetable changes

Postby I Follow PAFC » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:46 pm

New temp Outer Harbor timetable from May, til Port Adelaide spur line opens in about 12 mths.

https://twitter.com/I_Follow_PAFC/statu ... 8732372992
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Re: 2018 timetable changes

Postby route 228 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:14 am

So when the trains at night go to the 30 minutes frequency that was announced in the last budget kick in?
Living on the 228 bus run.

Route 228 Smithfield interchange to Victoria Square in the city of Adelaide South Australia.
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Re: 2018 timetable changes

Postby I Follow PAFC » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:21 pm

route 228 wrote:So when the trains at night go to the 30 minutes frequency that was announced in the last budget kick in?


About May.
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Re: 2018 timetable changes

Postby TA3001 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:40 pm

Regarding the 30 minute frequency, I'm wondering if it would be viable to instate a pattern where trains cross at Mitcham and Eden Hills?

The spare time would need to be removed, with the schedule reverting to that in the early 2000s where trains would arrive at stations and loops virtually simultaneously if on time.

The current interpeak schedule requires trains to sit in loops for several minutes. It may be more friendly towards on time running, but the old one was better in my opinion.

The trains left on the hour/half hour from ARS, stopped all stations except for the then closed Millswood with the up train arriving at Goodwood technically at 6 minutes past the hour, with one spare minute to account for delays. The timetable was skeleton tight with no spare time between stations, but this is a result of poor planning, and the mess regarding different gauges in Australia.

Much of the time, the train to Belair had to wait for the one on the up, but at times they would cross at Mitcham when running late enough to warrant this. In my opinion, reinstating this schedule would create faster services and less boredom for single traveler passengers who only have their phones or the speakers to 'entertain' them.

Alternatively, the line could be electrified which is unlikely for obvious reasons, which would enable this timetable to run without many delays. The 3000s aren't gonna last forever.
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Re: 2018 timetable changes

Postby The Phonj » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:15 pm

Your comments actually explain why the timetable has been written as it is now. The old timetable as you rightly mention had no capacity to recover from late running, whereas the current timetable has a capability to recover. It wasn't uncommon to sit in a loop under the old timetable, waiting for a late running train to come through. Most passengers would prefer the slower journey time as it provides a much more reliable timetable insomuch that the arrival into Adelaide can be reasonably relied upon as being fairly accurate; rather than arriving over five minutes late each day.
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Re: 2018 timetable changes

Postby homer9000 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:19 pm

although i do not live out in the northern suburbs anymore whatever did happen to selected services on the gawler line being nonstops from salisbury to the city.i recall most of the time when I WAS WORKING up that way for my father in our surgery at Davoren Park as his receptionist him driving me on the Fridays when I left my car at home to Elizabeth Station where I CAUGHT THE THEN TL10/LATER T500 at 4:55pm to Salisbury in order to get the no stopper train onwards.we had to leave a little earlier than normal but I LOVED THOSE RUNS.How did I end up doing that was purely simple there was no way I could handle sitting in a sports car that was not a FORD XR6/COMMODORE S OF THE NINETIES comfortably without complaining of poor posture and back aches.At the time we bought the 200SX a few years earlier you could not yet get a Subaru WRX AUTO they would not exist till 1997 and I AM NOT SURE what their equivalent of the day one size bigger in a family car that offered one performance with the convenience of automatic who did not want a home grown car is.
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