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Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Adelaide / South Australia Transport Discussion

Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby tonyp » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:46 pm

Eurostar wrote:Latest buses at Volgren look great

Here's an earlier Scania N series from Volgren with the stepless aisle:

grenda.jpg
grenda.jpg (87.8 KiB) Viewed 2293 times


Compared to the K series:

Image
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby jibb » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:56 am

Headline in today's Adelaide Advertiser;-
"Scania may make buses in Adelaide in $100m deal if Precision Buses tender succeeds"
Swedish bus and truck giant Scania has committed to Adelaide vehicle manufacturing in a proposed partnership with local company Precision Buses.
The partnership will provide the Adelaide company with $100m over the next 10 years to build Scania-based buses for the Australian market.
The proposed Scania deal is conditional on Precision winning the current bidding for a $300 million State Government tender to build SA's replacement public transport buses over 10 years.
Precision Buses is considered in the industry to be in the box seat for the tender, because the winning bidder must include a major local-manufacturing component, and the company has already been working on leading bus technology using a $2million State Government grant to help in the post-Holden area.
If it wins, the additional $100 million and the use of Scania's world-leading bus chassis and body technology would allow the company to create a showroom vehicle that could be sold to Government and private operators interstate.
The buses would be built at the Edinburgh Parks plant.
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby Merc1107 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:34 am

jibb wrote:... create a showroom vehicle that could be sold to Government and private operators interstate.
Small problem with that, as most interstate operators also include local content requirements in their orders. Personally, while local content requirements are a nice "feel good" initiative for local employment (and politicians), they go past the fact some of the body-builders haven't got a clue about designing buses for Australia's cities.

Hopefully this is just media hype. I don't know that Australia can support yet another body-builder (the recent issues with Customs spring to mind), and we have no clue what sort of product will be served up in terms of functional design or build quality. At least with Bustech, Volgren & Customs you know what you're getting.
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby jibb » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:44 am

If you read the article correctly the price for the tender is $300million,Precision Buses tender costs would be $100 million.There is nothing wrong with the journalism!
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby 1whoknows » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:28 pm

Mercedes 1107 the Precision bid is a partnership with Bustech so they would be Bustech design built by Precision.
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby jibb » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:48 pm

I did here today from a contact in the bus transport Industry that Precision Buses(Bustech) and Scania had been awarded the contract for Adelaide's new buses.
However as the Government/Transport Minister hasn't announced the result yet we can't be 100% certain if this is the case.
2 new Bustech buses were recently sighted undergoing spraypainting in Adelaide Metro colours at All Transport Crash Repairs at Regency Park.
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby TA3001 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:59 pm

I thought today was the 2nd of August, not the 1st of April...

I was honestly hoping for something less awful than CC V2 CB80s, not something even worse. 1906 is a horrible bus to catch in my opinion.
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby Daniel » Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:06 am

At the time of the sale of Custom Bus, DPTI had several new buses outstanding, a few in build (now delivered) and several not yet commenced. It is believed that Scania has transferred these chassis to Bustech/Precision to be completed. So these buses in build at the moment are not part of the new tender.
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby Tim Williams » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:16 am

I hear a rumor that the maximum age of buses in SA is to be or has been extended to 30 years, most probably to cater for the oldest of the Adelaide Metro fleet - the high floor MAN/PMC's
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby TA3001 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:25 pm

Tim Williams wrote:I hear a rumor that the maximum age of buses in SA is to be or has been extended to 30 years, most probably to cater for the oldest of the Adelaide Metro fleet - the high floor MAN/PMC's


This rumour was first mentioned roughly a year or more ago. But it would mean that private buses that exceed 25 years would be permitted to be registered as buses as well. I don't have a problem with it, but is it a slow news day somewhere, or something else?

There would be quite a backlash from the media and possibly the public, but we're not currently approaching a state election.
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby Tim Williams » Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:50 pm

I do not think that you have grasped what I was talking about, that is that the maximum age of buses allowed on the roads in SA is reportedly being extended purely due to the slow or recalcitrance of the ordering process for Adelaide Metro buses - yes private operators will benefit, as an aside, but 30 years for a major city urban bus is too long!! And yes, London operated Routemasters, older than even 30 years, but the bus was an amazingly competent and practical design and their maintenance procedures were very thorough.

Most places remove buses from the road from between 17 and 25 years - the economics of extending the life of buses are often fairly shaky!

Most if not all of the major UK fleets, European, US, Singapore and HK now operate all low floor fleets and we are going to retain these high floor buses (200??) for a few more years yet - a bit third world isn't it??
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby TA3001 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:04 pm

Tim Williams wrote:I do not think that you have grasped what I was talking about, that is that the maximum age of buses allowed on the roads in SA is reportedly being extended purely due to the slow or recalcitrance of the ordering process for Adelaide Metro buses - yes private operators will benefit, as an aside, but 30 years for a major city urban bus is too long!! And yes, London operated Routemasters, older than even 30 years, but the bus was an amazingly competent and practical design and their maintenance procedures were very thorough.

Most places remove buses from the road from between 17 and 25 years - the economics of extending the life of buses are often fairly shaky!

Most if not all of the major UK fleets, European, US, Singapore and HK now operate all low floor fleets and we are going to retain these high floor buses (200??) for a few more years yet - a bit third world isn't it??


We speak from different viewpoints. "The older the bus, the better", is basically what I think. But I don't see how this life extension would be legal anyway given that there was some kind of requirement for the Adelaide system to be fully accessible by 2022 mentioned ages ago. The last SL202 built new for Adelaide turns 25 in January 2021 according to the fleet lists.

There are currently around 80 high floor buses in service here, all CNG SL202s built from 1993 to 1995 excluding 840 (ex 1600). At least 45 SL202s have been retired as of August 2018 (25 diesels and around 20 CNGs).
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby Tim Williams » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:38 pm

Thanks for your reply, glad there are only 80 of these high floors left.

I also do like older buses, but we cannot ignore the current requirements for low floor, accessible buses - in days gone by an 11.3metre bus (eg. Leyland National or Bristol RE) would seat 53 people, now a 12 metre Mercedes Benz Citaro seats about 35 people and we all say it is progress because the Citaro is fully accessible and full low floor.
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby TA3001 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:22 pm

I understand what you mean, but I would prefer the high floors to stay in service until we are guaranteed to receive buses which have a genuine build quality, reliability, high passenger comfort levels, and at the very least, a backup emergency release that doesn't involve breaking the window.

Is it still possible with the current technology to have a full functional next stop buttons that isn't almost completely out of reach? From what I've heard, body repairs had a major influence on Custom Coaches going broke. They can't be 100% perfect, surely?
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby Volvo B12B Driver » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:10 am

I can only hope the next major order of buses are built with bustech bodies, Bustech bodies tend to stand up better in the long term and the drivers compartment is alot better too. But with the Liberal in power now they made decide just to buy buses fully built overseas.
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby jibb » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:49 am

I would have thought that Precision Buses/Lemforder/Bustech would stand a good chance of winning all or part of the tender.
As they have built quite a few buses for Adelaide Metro at the Edinburugh North plant during the last 12 months it would put them in good sted.
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby jibb » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:31 am

In the 2017/2018 the amount spent by DPTI on Bus Fleet Replacement program was 9.8 million.
In the 2018-2019 Budget this figure is 27 million ,which means a lot more new buses to be built and delivered.
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby Tim Williams » Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:58 pm

This is straight from the Adelaide Advertiser/Sunday Mail tonight and it doen't surprise me - new Liberal Government have inherited and absolute financial disaster from 16 years to total Labor mismanagement, which is exactly what was expected. And as further noted below possible tram extensions to North Adelaide & Norwood have been scrapped, also not surprising, as the cost of such capital works is enormous, the disruption to traffic, local business and the travelling public in general is large and the current bus services are totally adequate.

A $300 million tender to replace 400 ageing buses has been put on hold as the government considers the best options

Matt Smith, Sunday Mail (SA)
September 8, 2018 8:00pm

PLANS to replace 400 ageing buses have been temporarily taken off the table as the State Government considers the best way to upgrade Adelaide’s public transport system.
A $300 million tender, put out by the former government last year, is on ice because Transport Minister Stephan Knoll wants to ensure buying 400 buses is exactly what the public transport system needs.
Mr Knoll told the Sunday Mail a fresh tender would be put out by the end of the year, and the change was needed to ensure the best possible technology was used.
His decision comes as the State Government is investigating ways to save $1.1 million a year by cutting some bus routes and adjusting others.
Mr Knoll said the Government was committed to delivering a more efficient, reliable and customer-focused public transport network.
“Technology and innovative service delivery in the public transport space is changing at a rapid pace,” Mr Knoll said.

Transport Minister Stephan Knoll wants to ensure buying 400 buses is exactly what the public transport system needs.
“South Australians need a contract that has the flexibility and responsiveness to ensure we have the opportunity to access the latest, most efficient and cost-effective public transport service options.
“This Government will protect the interests of taxpayers at every turn, and that’s why we’re going to go back out to tender to get the best value for South Australian taxpayers.”
In June, bus and truck giant Scania committed to Adelaide vehicle manufacturing in a proposed partnership with local company Precision Buses promising $100 million worth of business over ten years.
However, the proposed Scania deal was conditional on Precision winning the $300 million Government tender to build SA’s replacement public transport buses.
The Sunday Mail understands the State Government wants more flexibility in the tender so smaller or larger vehicles could be built if they are deemed more appropriate.
In July, Mr Knoll told the Sunday Mail nothing was off the table as work began on designing the best public transport system for greater Adelaide.
However, despite that mantra, he said tram plans – including a line to The Parade, in Norwood, and an extension to North Adelaide – had been scrapped.
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