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Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

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Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby I Follow PAFC » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:27 pm

FOUR hundred new buses will rejuvenate Adelaide Metro’s fleet over the next 10 years, with the Government committing to build as many as possible in South Australia.

The Government is spruiking its $300 million investment as a shot in the arm for the state’s automotive manufacturing industry as it prepares for tomorrow’s closure of Holden’s Elizabeth Plant.

The contract will go out to tender today.

Companies who pitch electric buses, microhybrids and hydrogen-powered vehicles are all expected to prioritised, with the Government also asking for innovative ideas including Wi-Fi and hi-tech safety features.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sout ... 74a78043c7
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby TA3001 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:09 pm

This budget will just account for replacements for MAN vehicles built from 1992-2003, some of which are already withdrawn. Must be a slow news day with the media.

I'm surprised that the there are still around 100 or more non wheelchair accessible vehicles in service, given that quite a few are beyond 24 and a half years old.

Any news on when 1601 is likely to be withdrawn?
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby paulgersche » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:58 am

Hmmm ...

40 buses a year! Some "shot in the arm"!

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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby Skexis » Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:02 am

40 per year is fine. Bear in mind it takes a fair while to build a bus.
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby nscaler69 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:38 am

AdelaideNow: "The Government said innovation would be the order of the day for the bus contract — with the contract facilitating new technologies such as electric and hydrogen buses and micro-hybrids."

The Micro-hybrids sound interesting, maybe to replace the Rosa buses.
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby TA3001 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:27 pm

Skexis wrote:40 per year is fine. Bear in mind it takes a fair while to build a bus.


1941-1943 were delivered in one hit more or less. I'd be surprised it if CC can't build at least 50 a year for Adelaide. 3D printing will speed things up.
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby Tim Williams » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:11 pm

So, $300,000,000 for 400 buses = $750,000 per bus??

Are they all going to double deckers or artics? Ha!! - I don't know who does their pricing, but that cost is way over the top for that number of buses and if someone says that it is due to support equipment etc., think again!
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby burrumbus » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:45 pm

Is there any election due in South Australia ??? Incredibly expensive single deckers ,Tim!!!!
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby burrumbus » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:49 pm

SPIN !!!!!
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby Tim Williams » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:50 pm

Yes!!!!!

Spot on!
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby The Phonj » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:28 am

TA3001 wrote:This budget will just account for replacements for MAN vehicles built from 1992-2003, some of which are already withdrawn. Must be a slow news day with the media.
By my calculations, 400 buses over the next ten years will ensure the retirement of all remaining MAN vehicles as you have mentioned (approximately 350 remaining); plus the vast majority of the Southlink owned Scania L94/Volgren CR224 buses in the hills. Looks to be little scope for fleet expansion with this announcement.

Tim Williams wrote:So, $300,000,000 for 400 buses = $750,000 per bus??

Are they all going to double deckers or artics? Ha!! - I don't know who does their pricing, but that cost is way over the top for that number of buses and if someone says that it is due to support equipment etc., think again!
Some of the more emerging technologies - hybrid, electric, hydrogen etc may be more expensive than a 'regular' diesel bus. There may be some additional deckers involved, but who knows really?
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby tonyp » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:39 pm

The Phonj wrote:Some of the more emerging technologies - hybrid, electric, hydrogen etc may be more expensive than a 'regular' diesel bus. There may be some additional deckers involved, but who knows really?

That is about the price for a 12 metre electric bus. Perhaps that's what they're going to be?
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby coach driver 1981 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:29 pm

well i better start saving my money for a Southlink MAN 2200 series bus loved driving these when i was working for them especially 2205 and 2217
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby TA3001 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:38 pm

2205 and 2217 are just standard ZF diesel NL202s like 2218-2245, and 1735-1740. Some of the newer ones to have a distinctive retarder sound. Not sure what they like when they were new, but they weren't exactly my faves back then.
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby coach driver 1981 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:22 pm

TA3001 wrote:2205 and 2217 are just standard ZF diesel NL202s like 2218-2245, and 1735-1740. Some of the newer ones to have a distinctive retarder sound. Not sure what they like when they were new, but they weren't exactly my faves back then.

i just found these so comfortable to drive compared to an 18.280 2700 bus and a Cb80
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby MrNicoster » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:45 am

TA3001 wrote:3D printing will speed things up.


I fail to see how 3D printing could speed up the process of Bus Manufacturing. The technologies currently available would not be able to produce parts able to withstand the stresses of being a bus longer than current normally manufactured parts.
I'm happy to be proven wrong but I do not see current technologies being worth it for manufacturers.
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby jibb » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:28 pm

It must be close to announcing which companies have won the tender for these new buses. As the tenders closed some time ago and the current contract with Scania/Custom due to expire shortly(and Custom having to start up production again under its new owners) the orders for new buses must be getting close to the ordering stage!
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby 1whoknows » Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:37 pm

You have to remember a lot of things in government go on hold during the caretaker period before an election. And the process will now be scrutinised by the new Minister as well. But doubtless something will be announced ahead of 30 June.
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby homer9000 » Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:40 am

i hope those low floor buses many of which first saw light of day in the nineties ex serco mobiles get replaced.i hate connecting off say a c2 or 500 or 502 and getting onto my connecting 200 to work only to find out it is on one of those.i don't mind getting say a 1200 or 1400 or 1800 series bus on those but anything else yuk.
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby Crispy! » Thu May 31, 2018 2:04 am

Stupid SA government wasting money replacing the fleet yes some buses are old etc the SL202’s 11.190’s and soon the NL202 Diesels will start to go

It makes no sense having an age limit for older buses when these buses are in good working order replacing them with a cheap unrealistic replacement

are these new buses such as CB80 Scania’s much better on fuel? for the environment? or for passenger comfort?

I honestly hate sometimes getting on a CB80 Rigid or Artic in the middle of a cold day or rainy day and driver has the A/C set to a very cold temperature
also some of the 1800’s 1900 Ecolife Scania’s are rough as guts in terms of ride quality and another thing I’ve noticed is the lack of leg room on 1941-1970 *1962 I was on a few weeks back had hardly any leg room and hard seats especially up the left hand side front seat area.





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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby BroadGauge » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:17 pm

Crispy! wrote:It makes no sense having an age limit for older buses when these buses are in good working order replacing them with a cheap unrealistic replacement

There are vehicles that are 50 years old, but are still in good working order. Should they still be using those?

Do you have any evidence that the new vehicles being procured are either "cheap" or are "unrealistic" for the task they perform? I do note that they have always gone with locally bodied vehicles in Adelaide and not lower cost imported buses from China etc, which suggests that they are paying more for quality and to sustain local jobs.

Crispy! wrote:I honestly hate sometimes getting on a CB80 Rigid or Artic in the middle of a cold day or rainy day and driver has the A/C set to a very cold temperature

If the driver has the air conditioning temperature set too low, that's the fault of the driver, not the vehicle. Perhaps you could ask them nicely to turn the temperature up? ;)
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby PoweredByCNG » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:47 pm

BroadGauge wrote:If the driver has the air conditioning temperature set too low, that's the fault of the driver, not the vehicle. Perhaps you could ask them nicely to turn the temperature up? ;)


That is not always possible. Many operators now configure their HVAC systems as "climate control", with the driver unable to control set point temperature, heating vs. cooling or fan speed. On top of that, many operators have a policy that prohibits drivers from turning off HVAC when there are passengers on-board a vehicle.
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby Merc1107 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:58 am

PoweredByCNG wrote:
BroadGauge wrote:If the driver has the air conditioning temperature set too low, that's the fault of the driver, not the vehicle. Perhaps you could ask them nicely to turn the temperature up? ;)


That is not always possible. Many operators now configure their HVAC systems as "climate control", with the driver unable to control set point temperature, heating vs. cooling or fan speed. On top of that, many operators have a policy that prohibits drivers from turning off HVAC when there are passengers on-board a vehicle.
To add to this; sometimes the temperature set-point is too high or too low. In the case of Thermo-King airconditioning systems, they are incredibly aggressive with their use of the cooling function to 'supplement' the heater. One would think simply varying the heating output rather than adding cooling would result in far fewer temperature swings (the climate control in my 25y/o car manages blending just fine... Why not a new bus?). These systems often bounce between cyclonic-force heating and cooling ad nauseam... Thus, if the heater is weak, the air-conditioning may be over-powering whatever negligible heating effect there is.

BroadGauge wrote:Do you have any evidence that the new vehicles being procured are either "cheap" or are "unrealistic" for the task they perform?
Aren't Adelaide in the process of procuring a fleet of BCIs of some form or another?
It was also my understanding the Scanias in Adelaide do receive a lot of flak for their reliability, build quality and overall layout (i.e. internal steps)...
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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby tonyp » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:22 pm

Merc1107 wrote:It was also my understanding the Scanias in Adelaide do receive a lot of flak for their reliability, build quality and overall layout (i.e. internal steps)...

Scania N series fully low-floor chassis is the answer to eliminating internal steps. Volgren does an excellent job with these, both on local orders and orders for Japan. No other chassis manufacturer so far on the Australian market, apart from MAN, offers a low-floor chassis. Mercedes has floated a non-complying demonstrator here but no developments since. Volvo isn't even in the running.

Failing that, even the K series with a high floor at the back is not bad on an artic. You get a stepless floor right through to the rear axle. There is a fleet of new K series artics, Volgren-bodied, in Nowra NSW and they're beautiful. So quiet and so spacious with the low floor extending through most of the bus. It certainly makes a difference to getting the passengers to distribute throughout the bus and they're very comfortable to stand in too.

For some reason, Adelaide and Canberra have ordered "combo" artics in the past, with the high floor starting in the front of the bus. Now that both cities are adopting all-door loading, these buses will let them down badly with their steps at all but the front door.

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Re: Ageing buses to be replaced by SA gov in $300 mil

Postby Eurostar » Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:26 pm

Latest buses at Volgren look great
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