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Ideas for some Northern Suburb changes

Adelaide / South Australia Transport Discussion

Ideas for some Northern Suburb changes

Postby bigrobbo » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:47 pm

Having had a bit of time on my hands lately, I have put some thought into how I would improve services in the northern area.

I thank you in advance for reading my post, and look forward to hearing your thoughts, both good and bad, about my thoughts and ideas. I am aware that Lonsdale and Aldgate buses are currently covering 222’s during the day, and I have not taken that into account at all. I am assuming all services will be run out of the Northern Depots.

SUMMARY OF CHANGES
• Current Go Zone to be changed from Adelaide to Mawson Interchange to Adelaide to Stop 33C Mawson Lakes Bvd.
• 225 to be re-routed.
• 229 to be re-routed slightly.
• 401 to be extended to Mawson Interchange.
• 565 to be extended.
• 501 to be cut completely between 9am and 3pm.
• 430 to be re-routed.
• 415 to be given to Light City Buses
• C1 to be re-routed

SERVICES TO/FROM THE CITY VIA MAIN NORTH ROAD BETWEEN 9am AND 3pm
Currently, there are 8 buses leaving the city every hour, and, once the morning peak settles down, 8 buses heading into the city every hour. Four of these services are all stops and 4 run under “F” conditions to and from stop 17. In a way, the “F” is a joke, as passengers are picked up by these services between the city and stop 17 and get off at stop 17. Or, heading into the city, passengers get on at stop 17 only to alight on the way into the city.
My suggestion – do not run “F” services at all between 9am and 3pm. Have a service leave the city every 7.5 minutes. This will increase the services along Main North Road without having to put any extra buses on. I would cut the 222 out altogether and go back to the 224/229/225/228 running from the city, and leave the 222 for peak times only.

CHANGING THE GO-ZONE AND RE-ROUTING 225
I would re-route the 225 to follow the 222/224 service to Stop 33C Mawson Lakes Bvd. From there, it can turn right onto Park Lane, go to UniSA Mawson Lakes, Mawson Interchange and then run direct down Elder Smith Drive, Main North Road and follow its normal route. This opens up Para Hills and Para Hills West to a more direct service to Mawson Interchange.

EXTENDING THE 565
To counter the change in route 225, I would start the 565 at Gepps Cross stop 25, let it run to Mawson Interchange via Port Wakefield Road, then follow the current 565 route to Ingle Farm Shopping Centre. During peak times though, I would split the service if required. I would run (call it 221) a service from the City to Mawson Interchange via Port Wakefield Rd as an all stops service, to compliment the 222 to stop 25.

RE-ROUTING THE 229
I would re-route the 229 to travel via Ingle Farm Shopping Centre. This will go via Carr St, Bridge Rd, Beovich Rd, Roopena St, Montague Rd and then normal route. This opens up the shops, the library and the community centre more to residents of Pooraka, Ingle Farm and Para Hills.

NO 501 BETWEEN 9am and 3pm
This one is harsh. But it helps cover the kilometres needed for LCB to run the 415.
The 225 would cover a direct services from UniSA Mawson Lakes to Adelaide every 30 minutes. If people wanted to get to Paradise Interchange, then they could get the 565 and “connect” with a 502. This is far from ideal I know. The 565 could be timetabled to arrive at stop 37C five minutes before the arrival of a 502. No connection would be guaranteed, which is not good.
UniSA students can also take advantage of the “Campus Connector” as well, which services Mawson Interchange, UniSA Mawson Lakes, Paradise Interchange and UniSA Magill.

EXTEND THE 401
This to me must be done. From the current Paralowie terminus, follow the 411 route to Shepherdson Rd, then right at The Blvd, Kingborn Rd, Martins Rd, Ryans Rd and follow the 411 to Mawson Interchange. This will give a bus route to the new areas of Parafield Gardens. Instead of running the 411 every 15 minutes, you could run alternate 401/411. If passengers need a 15 minute service from Salisbury via Burton Rd, you could easily have a loop service which incorporates the 403 and travel via Bolivar Rd. The extended 401 would run Monday to Friday only during the day. A Saturday service could be looked at.

RE-ROUTE THE 430
Let the 430 permanently go past the Lyall McEwin Hospital and Central Districts Private Hospital. So, from Salisbury, follow current route 400, right Main North Rd, left Black Top Rd and normal route to Elizabeth. This opens up Hillbank residents to a bus service to both hospitals. Also, the 430 would not be competing with the 415 for passengers.

415 AND THE C1 RE-ROUTING
Currently, there is no services whatsoever from suburbs like Golden Grove, Greenwith, Surrey Downs directly to the Lyall McEwin Hospital. My suggestion – detour the C1. From the city, turn left at John Rice Avenue, right Haydown Rd and follow the current 500 route to Elizabeth. LCB can do what the like with the 415 – extend it to Golden Grove Village, service retirement villages in the area – but the 415 and C1 would connect at stop 60 The Grove Way. This would open up Salisbury and the Lyall Mac for people in the outer north eastern suburbs. The State Government may have to throw a bit more cash at LCB to run this service, but hey, it is better than what they have now.

What do you think?
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Re: Ideas for some Northern Suburb changes

Postby jibb » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:21 pm

Big Robbo very comprehensive and detailed report and suggestions. I would strongly recommend that you put pen to paper and send this into DTPI as I believe they are currently looking at a review of services for January 2018,so the timing would be good.
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Re: Ideas for some Northern Suburb changes

Postby mmosca447 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:04 pm

I agree with Jibb, a very interesting read. I especially like the C1 and 415 re-routing, I didn't realise there was no direct connection between the outer north-east and the Lyall McEwin.
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Re: Ideas for some Northern Suburb changes

Postby busrider » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:27 pm

How about extending the 565 to TTP, again? At the moment, there's no direct way to Mawson Lakes from either TTP or Golden Grove, despite them not being all that far apart...
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Re: Ideas for some Northern Suburb changes

Postby Torrens_5022 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:22 pm

More train services are needed, then you can turn the 224, 228 into feeders, there's zero point in having so many buses servicing main north, south of Mawson Lakes, the freed up buses can be used as feeders into Smithfield, Elizabeth, Salisbury, Parafield and Mawson Lakes running more express trains between Adelaide and Gawler. An example service 427 Salisbury Loop - Salisbury Station - Waterloo Corner Rd - Bolivar Rd - Kings Rd - Parafield Station - Bridge Rd - Park Tce - Salisbury Station. Have a few of these at 15min frequency to connect with a train . The 228 will run as a 428 Smithfield to Mawson Lakes it could loop with 424 (old 224) 222 will run as a go zone to Mawson Lakes.
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Re: Ideas for some Northern Suburb changes

Postby bigrobbo » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:04 pm

Torrens_5022 wrote:More train services are needed, then you can turn the 224, 228 into feeders, there's zero point in having so many buses servicing main north, south of Mawson Lakes, the freed up buses can be used as feeders into Smithfield, Elizabeth, Salisbury, Parafield and Mawson Lakes running more express trains between Adelaide and Gawler. An example service 427 Salisbury Loop - Salisbury Station - Waterloo Corner Rd - Bolivar Rd - Kings Rd - Parafield Station - Bridge Rd - Park Tce - Salisbury Station. Have a few of these at 15min frequency to connect with a train . The 228 will run as a 428 Smithfield to Mawson Lakes it could loop with 424 (old 224) 222 will run as a go zone to Mawson Lakes.


I have thought long and hard about using Parafield Station as a feeder station. That 427 idea is a good one. I like that.

busrider wrote:How about extending the 565 to TTP, again? At the moment, there's no direct way to Mawson Lakes from either TTP or Golden Grove, despite them not being all that far apart...


We could try and go back to the old 205/565 situation we had 10 years ago. But, for some reason, the romance of bringing the 560 back full time, and poor running times from the city on the 205 stopped that.

You could look at re-routing the 565 through parts of Ingle Farm and travelling to TTP via Wright Rd. But, that would end up being in direct competition with 361/503 in the end and it may not get through.

Stupid contract areas!
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Re: Ideas for some Northern Suburb changes

Postby Eagle Eye » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:48 pm

mmosca447 wrote:I didn't realise there was no direct connection between the outer north-east and the Lyall McEwin.

Not direct as in fast, but there is a direct (one-ride) journey available between TTP/Modbury Hospital and the LMH on route 560. Granted, it barely even scratches the surface of the north-east unlike the C1. Would be great to see regular and direct Salisbury to Golden Grove services and Tea Tree Plaza to Mawson Lakes.
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Re: Ideas for some Northern Suburb changes

Postby Torrens_5022 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:22 pm

A route TTP to Mawson Lakes via Montague Road would be simple and easy to implement say a 567 an New 547 - continuation of the 541 to Elizabeth via Golden Grove Rd and Lyell McEwin.
The entire route system needs a re working, some routes just seem stupid like the 645/6, they should service Oaklands Station.
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Re: Ideas for some Northern Suburb changes

Postby The Phonj » Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:23 pm

The 645 and 646 made a sort of sense when they were continuations of the M44 route.
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Re: Ideas for some Northern Suburb changes

Postby mmosca447 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:43 pm

The Phonj wrote:The 645 and 646 made a sort of sense when they were continuations of the M44 route.


I think we should bring back the old Seaview Downs to Brighton Station route (think it was 24...), at least it connected to a railway station somehow.
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Re: Ideas for some Northern Suburb changes

Postby The Phonj » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:03 pm

You may be thinking of the 643/644 which ran from Marion to Brighton and v.v. via both Seaview Downs and Seacombe Heights. From memory; they were removed due to low patronage.
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Re: Ideas for some Northern Suburb changes

Postby jibb » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:09 pm

And the 265 covered part of their catchment area by traversing Seacombe Road and Morphett Road to/from Brighton Station.
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Re: Ideas for some Northern Suburb changes

Postby mmosca447 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:11 pm

The Phonj wrote:You may be thinking of the 643/644 which ran from Marion to Brighton and v.v. via both Seaview Downs and Seacombe Heights. From memory; they were removed due to low patronage.


Yeah I think that's the one, I rode that quite often I can recall
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Re: Ideas for some Northern Suburb changes

Postby jibb » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:14 pm

As has been mentioned before on this forum,there is probably a need for a Port Adelaide-Mawson Lakes-Salisbury Interchange week day service.
However having said that it appears that this Government and DPTI have gone cold on making changes to existing routes or even adding in new services?
Will be interested to see if they are prepared to loosen the "purse strings prior to the election?
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Re: Ideas for some Northern Suburb changes

Postby Eagle Eye » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:57 am

Torrens_5022 wrote:The entire route system needs a re working, some routes just seem stupid like the 645/6, they should service Oaklands Station.

When Oaklands Station is put underground next year I wonder if it's possible to incorporate a small interchange there, possibly on the southern side? The road could be reconfigured to allow right turns from Morphett Rd and have some sort of a loop to allow a couple of bus stops, a similar size to FMC Interchange perhaps. This would allow various feeders such as the 645/646 to connect with trains and might improve their patronage. It would also allow easier access for substitute buses when required.

It may be argued that the new Tonsley Station (I think it will be kept but relocated slightly north before the elevation?) would be equally suited to bus/train connections like this. I wonder whether it would be worth having some services such as the 645/646 extend to Tonsley Station in this case? Even the Flinders precinct! There really should be a bus lane on Sturt Rd between Marion Interchange and the new Flinders Dr but we all know that won't happen because we couldn't possibly upset car drivers in Adelaide.
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Re: Ideas for some Northern Suburb changes

Postby mmosca447 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:27 pm

Eagle Eye wrote:
Torrens_5022 wrote:The entire route system needs a re working, some routes just seem stupid like the 645/6, they should service Oaklands Station.

When Oaklands Station is put underground next year I wonder if it's possible to incorporate a small interchange there, possibly on the southern side? The road could be reconfigured to allow right turns from Morphett Rd and have some sort of a loop to allow a couple of bus stops, a similar size to FMC Interchange perhaps. This would allow various feeders such as the 645/646 to connect with trains and might improve their patronage. It would also allow easier access for substitute buses when required.

It may be argued that the new Tonsley Station (I think it will be kept but relocated slightly north before the elevation?) would be equally suited to bus/train connections like this. I wonder whether it would be worth having some services such as the 645/646 extend to Tonsley Station in this case? Even the Flinders precinct! There really should be a bus lane on Sturt Rd between Marion Interchange and the new Flinders Dr but we all know that won't happen because we couldn't possibly upset car drivers in Adelaide.


Would it still go via Marion?
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Re: Ideas for some Northern Suburb changes

Postby The Phonj » Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:57 pm

jibb wrote:And the 265 covered part of their catchment area by traversing Seacombe Road and Morphett Road to/from Brighton Station.


You seem to be forgetting that when the 265 was introduced; it travelled from Seacombe Rd, L Neath Ave and followed the old 243 (current 645) to Marion and v.v. The current arrangement was introduced when the 643 and 644 were removed; the 645 becoming a seven day service and the 646 introduced.
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