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O-Bahn upgrades

Adelaide / South Australia Transport Discussion

O-Bahn upgrades

Postby Eagle Eye » Fri May 26, 2017 4:58 pm

Your O-Bahn experience is evolving!
http://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/O-Bahn-upgrade

Rear door validations will be interesting! I wonder how much fare evasion will increase, patronage numbers decrease, and rushing to push in and get a seat will have an impact.

Updated signage at the interchanges will be very welcomed, and hopefully much cleaner and nicer overall.
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Your O-Bahn experience is evolving

Postby jibb » Fri May 26, 2017 5:06 pm

An announcement on the Adelaide Metro website about upgrades to the Busway and the O-Bahn fleet.
One of the key initiatives ;-In late 2017 all buses will be fitted with validators on all doors to allow for faster loading.
In addition to the cleaning and painting of the 3 Interchanges,new way-finding and signage will be installed at each interchange to assist in finding where buses will depart,as well as pointing to ticket machines,toilets,parking and more.
This is the start of preparation for all the changes as a result of the opening of the tunnel in late 2017.
http://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/O-Bahn-upgrade
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Re: O-Bahn upgrades

Postby Diesel_MAN » Fri May 26, 2017 5:20 pm

This definitely has the potential to go very wrong, but we'll have to wait to see how these changes are managed. One problem with letting passengers board anywhere is that it could cause issues when large numbers of people are trying to alight the bus; this could be very bad for M44 services with several passengers trying to board and alight at the same time in the city.
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Re: O-Bahn upgrades

Postby bigrobbo » Fri May 26, 2017 5:40 pm

That's interesting.

So what will happen to these validators when the track buses run a "silver" service? Will people click that there are validators at every door?

Or will they have services running from TTP to City only using this and the buses fitted out with the extra validators only used on these services?

It opens up a lot of questions.


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Re: O-Bahn upgrades

Postby jibb » Fri May 26, 2017 6:01 pm

It will only apply on O-Bahn services-normal validation (ie front of bus) will occur when O-Bahn bus transfer to a non-O-Bahn service.
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Re: O-Bahn upgrades

Postby Blerko » Fri May 26, 2017 6:38 pm

Might take a short while to settle, but I've seen it work well for trams in Melbourne.
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Re: O-Bahn upgrades

Postby jibb » Fri May 26, 2017 8:46 pm

Sydney have Pre-Pay on many of their peak-hour services to speed them up-maybe they need to look at introducing this on the O-O-Bahn?
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Re: O-Bahn upgrades

Postby UNV » Sat May 27, 2017 12:24 am

Based on my observation, for express services, it costs 20 odd mins from TTP to the Currie St during morning peak hours, but 30 mins outbound in afternoon peak. Besides the traffic issues in the city, the lining boarding model may be a major factor. Obviously,patrons can alight from 2 or 3 doors but only board from 1 door, it could get more time-consuming if several of them needed to purchase tickets and couldn't find the right way to insert into the validator.
More validators at center and rear doors, combined with the coming tunnel, about 5 mins can be saved for each trip.
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Re: O-Bahn upgrades

Postby tonyp » Sat May 27, 2017 12:26 pm

This is absolutely fantastic news and brings (at least part of) an Australian city bus operation up to what has been mostly standard in Europe for decades (as well as the CAT buses in Perth and the Cityglider in Brisbane). It's a no brainer now with prepaid fare systems. Well done Adelaide! Now it should be extended system-wide.

The concern about fare evasion should be addressed by random inspections by roving RPOs. AdMet should be beefing these up if they haven't already done so.

Anybody in Adelaide who doesn't think there's a problem with front door-only loading, watch this video from end to end and also listen to the background commentary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnA6xE-y2c4&t=827s

There are a couple of dwells there of 2 minutes for more. From my observations in Europe and elsewhere, crowds of that size would be aboard in about 30 seconds - although admittedly their buses usually have at least one more door behind the rear axle which helps. Typically you can expect dwells to reduce to 10-30 seconds once people get used to it.

It's already done on trains and trams for eons and nobody has ever wondered about it. It's no different for buses. The people inside get off then the people outside get on, easy.
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Re: O-Bahn upgrades

Postby The Phonj » Sun May 28, 2017 10:35 am

Adelaide's buses used to have all door boarding - the old MTT three doors permitted all door boarding when a conductor was on board - when the driver only was on board; a supplementary "Front Entrance" sign was rolled up to advise of front door boarding only. Conductors were finally removed from MTT services in 1972 after a program of conversion to one person operation.
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Re: O-Bahn upgrades

Postby tonyp » Sun May 28, 2017 1:00 pm

The Phonj wrote:Adelaide's buses used to have all door boarding - the old MTT three doors permitted all door boarding when a conductor was on board - when the driver only was on board; a supplementary "Front Entrance" sign was rolled up to advise of front door boarding only. Conductors were finally removed from MTT services in 1972 after a program of conversion to one person operation.

Pretty much all Australian buses had all-door boarding once! The front door-entry era came with the phasing out of conductors particularly between the 1950s and 1970s. In Europe they replaced conductors with POP prepaid fare systems so that they could continue all-door boarding. Unfortunately they didn't do the same here, which had (and still has) a disastrous effect on running and dwell times as it slowed buses right down at stops. WIth modern smartcard systems it's now possible to go back to all-door boarding. Adelaide is to be commended on reintroducing it on such a major scale.

Those three-door Worldmasters were the only bus in Australia that could even remotely claim any credentials to be a "tram replacement bus", at least on passenger exchange/dwell grounds, but not capacity. Another Adelaide best.
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Re: O-Bahn upgrades

Postby Eurostar » Sun May 28, 2017 3:36 pm

How much time could be stripped from timetables on a route like C1 from Elizabeth Station to City if the service was prepay only and all door boarding. Buses currently waits or gets held up by people buying tickets especially if they keep putting it in wrong way: few minutes at Elizabeth City Centre, a few minutes at Golden Grove Village, up to 5 minutes at Tea Tree Plaza. The scheduled time could be trimmed down to 50-55 minutes compared to 60 minutes.

At Tea Tree Plaza Interchange the M44 to the City imo should be using Zone B so it can set down and pick up commuters quickly rather than waiting at Zone C for the bus in front to depart
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Re: O-Bahn upgrades

Postby jibb » Sun May 28, 2017 4:13 pm

With faster boarding at key Interchanges and the City, plus the opening of the new bus tunnel all journeys to and from the City will be quicker meaning less buses needed to run the same services. However hopefully the buses can then be used on additional services in peak hours between TTP and the City. There should be sufficient buses in the O-Bahn fleet to do this.
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Re: Your O-Bahn experience is evolving

Postby Eagle Eye » Mon May 29, 2017 1:01 pm

Isn't there already a topic about this?
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Re: O-Bahn upgrades

Postby Torrens_5022 » Mon May 29, 2017 4:46 pm

So these services would only operate all doors on the O'Bahn and in the city? or is it all doors on an O'Bahn service? This would be so confusing, example: M44 say it's all doors Golden Grove to City but not Marion Road, would it be simpler to make the route an all doors route? or just the 4 stops Grenfell, Klemzig, Paradise, TTP?
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Re: O-Bahn upgrades

Postby tonyp » Mon May 29, 2017 5:31 pm

The news release says it's all buses equipped to run on the O Bahn. So I'm hoping that means that it's all door loading for the entirety of the route that each bus runs along. Specifying only a few stops becomes very confusing for users and you will find people trying to board by the other door at any stop. In fact it should be introduced system-wide, not just O Bahn buses. Consistency is important.
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Re: O-Bahn upgrades

Postby jibb » Mon May 29, 2017 5:54 pm

I suspect this is the beginning of a long term plan to introduce this on all bus routes. Once this new system is bedded in on the O-Bahn and all the bugs ironed out, then you will see it introduced on the rest of the system.
With plans to overhaul many bus routes in Adelaide and the metropolitan area over the next few years including a series of fast and express buses on key routes with more direct services to and from the City supported by a network of feeder buses,then it will happen.
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Re: O-Bahn upgrades

Postby jibb » Tue May 30, 2017 12:28 pm

There are a number of trips from Paradise and Tea Tree Plaza Interchanges that are operated by non-O-Bahn buses. There is also an am trip from Marion to the City and a pm trip from the City to Marion operated by non O-Bahn buses. Will this cause passenger confusion if there is no "all door buses" on these trips?,unless the schedules are changed so that only do O-Bahn buses do these trips?
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Re: O-Bahn upgrades

Postby Diesel_MAN » Tue May 30, 2017 5:27 pm

That is a very good point. One solution regarding the M44C and the reverse trips in the evening could be to renumber the route; I believe it used to be known as the 243, but changing it to 244 may help minimise passenger confusion.

Regarding non-O-Bahn buses at O-Bahn interchanges, I think it would be a good idea for clear signage to be in place in order to reduce the risk of passengers trying to board from the centre or rear doors at stops such as Zone I Paradise.
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Re: O-Bahn upgrades

Postby jibb » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:56 pm

As part of the upgrade of the O-Bahn service new Digital Bus Stops are to be installed in Grenfell and Currie Streets (for all services that use those 2 streets).
They will replace existing bus stops. They will be colour coded with Green for Hills routes, Blue for East-West services and Orange for the O-Bahn.
These are due to be installed and operational by late August/Early September 2017.
New Digital displays will be installed at the O-Bahn interchanges. They will be colour coded Orange as part of the rebranding of the O-Bahn. These are due to be installed and operational by late November/Early December 2017.
Current plans are to have the tunnel opened and operating by late October/Early November (couple of months ahead of schedule).
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Re: O-Bahn upgrades

Postby busrider » Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:50 pm

Orange for the O-Bahn and green for the hills? Very appropriate, in a historic sense...
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Re: O-Bahn upgrades

Postby Eurostar » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:11 pm

I noticed that some of the columns at Paradise have been painted yellow
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Re: O-Bahn upgrades

Postby UNV » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:03 pm

Zone A & B of Klemzig Station have been coloured yellow (or orange), so as Zone A-H of Paradise Inc, and Zone I is in deep blue.
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Re: O-Bahn upgrades

Postby TA3001 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:29 pm

How come the DPTI hasn't bothered reintroducing the boards with the routes listed at the individual 'zones'? Are they too costly to maintain, or some kind or terrorism threat? It would be easier for those with short memories, or disabilities. I guess they tend to think that everyone is the same.

Are there any other interchanges in Australia which don't have the routes listed at each stop?
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Re: O-Bahn upgrades

Postby jibb » Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:37 pm

TA3001 wrote:How come the DPTI hasn't bothered reintroducing the boards with the routes listed at the individual 'zones'? Are they too costly to maintain, or some kind or terrorism threat? It would be easier for those with short memories, or disabilities. I guess they tend to think that everyone is the same.

Are there any other interchanges in Australia which don't have the routes listed at each stop?

I think you will find that with these new Digital Bus Stops that are going to be installed that they will contain this information.
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