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Next Stage of Rail Electrification - Adelaide

Adelaide / South Australia Transport Discussion

Re: Next Stage of Rail Electrification - Adelaide

Postby jibb » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:40 pm

thedom wrote:
jibb wrote:Stage 1 will only go to Salisbury.Passengers who wish to continue beyond that will need to change to a Diesel train for the remainder of their journey..


Will they? Or can they board a Diesel train in the city and head to Elizabeth, and beyond? Will Salisbury's electric service be like the tonsley service - all stops and the Diesel services can run express to mawson lakes, salisbury and then continue onward....

It makes sense seing as we dont have a large contingency of electric sets in peak hour spare. 5 to 7 sets at most?

New trains are to be ordered for this project.Will be interesting to see if we get more of the same to keep the fleet uniform?
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Re: Next Stage of Rail Electrification - Adelaide

Postby BroadGauge » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:10 pm

thedom wrote:Will they? Or can they board a Diesel train in the city and head to Elizabeth, and beyond? Will Salisbury's electric service be like the tonsley service - all stops and the Diesel services can run express to mawson lakes, salisbury and then continue onward....

It would seem like an unwelcome inconvenience to half of the line's passengers if there was to be a change of trains required at Salisbury.

Perhaps you'll end up with a silly situation where the overhead wires are only used by EMUs in peak hour on short running services terminating at Salisbury, with diesel railcars on through services being the only trains running in the off-peak. It's happened before elsewhere! :twisted:
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Re: Next Stage of Rail Electrification - Adelaide

Postby Eagle Eye » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:38 am

They complain when it's not electrified, they complain when it is. If it was only electrified to Dry Creek Depot for Not In Service running they'd still complain.

A 42km line can't be electrified in one go overnight. I remember well the Craigieburn line in Melbourne - for a long time it was only electrified as far as Broadmeadows then as it became warranted the electrification was extended to Craigieburn.

Typical Adelaide mentality.

The job is finally starting. Whether it's 100m, 1km, 10km, 20km or 40km, let's just be glad the job is starting and I'm sure there will be political sweeteners along the way to get the full thing done sooner rather than later.
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Re: Next Stage of Rail Electrification - Adelaide

Postby Newcastle Flyer » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:01 pm

"Fe fo fum, do we smell a SA state election?"
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Re: Next Stage of Rail Electrification - Adelaide

Postby Heardy_101 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:08 am

*sniff*

Anyone smell that?

*sniff*

Hmm.....

*sniff*

Yep. Definitely an election coming.
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Re: Next Stage of Rail Electrification - Adelaide

Postby flaneur » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:10 pm

Adelaide we have a problem ?
yes we do - source - the current South Australian Government / the Turnball / Abbott Government
problem 1 - State Govt running around like a headless chook
Govt waste of resources and funds, Govt Departments mismanagement and incompetence
panic mode / political gain - projects all over the place
wasted opportunities - planning shortfalls
failure to extend rail line to Aldinga, construction failures with Seaford line sub stations - no solar/ battery back up, illegal/banned cladding
wasted opportunity to electrify Gawler line
failure to take in to account push for housing development from Salisbury to Penfield / Virginia / Two Wells and east of Gawler
push for new transit roads - spin is for motorists but in reality to cater more for the road transport industry
problem 2 - Federal Govt internal problems and favouring roads not rail
happy to fund roads but State Govts have to push for rail infrastructure
roads are a cash cow for both levels of Government
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Re: Next Stage of Rail Electrification - Adelaide

Postby Newcastle Flyer » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:22 pm

Hmm, that's interesting. Have a close look at the front of the train!
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Re: Next Stage of Rail Electrification - Adelaide

Postby The Phonj » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:37 pm

That artists impression has been doing the rounds for a few years now. I'd hate to think how slow it would be to load if the driver was selling tickets or supervising validations though, as the bus driver pictured would have to do.
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Re: Next Stage of Rail Electrification - Adelaide

Postby Heardy_101 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:18 pm

I'd hazard a guess the image is the original artists impressions of a very early one. They use a similar or the same image for the Outer Harbour Train-Tram plan.
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Re: Next Stage of Rail Electrification - Adelaide

Postby Eurostar » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:40 pm

Outer Harbour, Grange Lines will have to close again for when the wires are installed on the Port Main and Main North tracks in Adelaide Railyard
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Re: Next Stage of Rail Electrification - Adelaide

Postby Heardy_101 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:54 am

Typical.

Instead of doing that while they were closed for the TJ project...
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Re: Next Stage of Rail Electrification - Adelaide

Postby PD2/20 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:41 am

Eurostar wrote:Outer Harbour, Grange Lines will have to close again for when the wires are installed on the Port Main and Main North tracks in Adelaide Railyard

Remember that gantry structures were installed in the north half of Adelaide Yard in Jan 13. Much of the stringing work was then done overnight without service closures.
Heardy_101 wrote:Typical.

Instead of doing that while they were closed for the TJ project...

It has been noted by a number of observers that during the TJ work that electrification pole bases were installed at TJ and N Adelaide. The middle span of Torrens Bridge was also refurbished in this closure. Both the Port and North Main were relaid between Torrens Bri and Nairne Jn including a remodelling of the Gaol Jn crossovers and a new connection (yet to be completed) to the west end of the north sidings at Adelaide Yard. This connection may help with the running of empty stock movements to/from Dry Creek. In addition Nairne Jn to Hawker St and Croydon have been completely resignalled including axle counters and ATP balises.
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Re: Next Stage of Rail Electrification - Adelaide

Postby homer9000 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:09 pm

will belair be next.that must be the only other train gawler and outer harbour excepted that still sees trains that entered service from the eighties and nineties on the services,all others have the new ones.
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Re: Next Stage of Rail Electrification - Adelaide

Postby Eagle Eye » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:02 pm

homer9000 wrote:will belair be next.that must be the only other train gawler and outer harbour excepted that still sees trains that entered service from the eighties and nineties on the services,all others have the new ones.

Belair will likely be the last line to be electrified (assuming it will be required eventually) due to complications with the tunnels, the adjacent freight line and the line's ultimate viability. There are ongoing rumours about the possibility of re-routing freight trains out of the hills, and if that eventually happens the existing freight track could be converted back to metro passenger services. They wouldn't want to electrify one track only to have to redo the whole job a couple of years later if/when the other track becomes available for metro trains.
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Re: Next Stage of Rail Electrification - Adelaide

Postby TA3001 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:10 pm

Would it be worth regauging the current SG line back to BG though, as well as overhauling the disused platforms, resignaling the line, as well as connecting it to the current BG line at Goodwood?

It would probably cost several million dollars work for this to be done. Extra crossing loops would be a tiny little bit cheaper, but not as friendly towards higher frequencies.
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Re: Next Stage of Rail Electrification - Adelaide

Postby The Phonj » Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:31 pm

A number of platforms on the SG have been removed in the ensuing years; and would there be the space for another platform at Showground Central? I personally can't see the SG being taken out of the hills for a very long time; the many millions spent at Torrens Junction recently (and Goodwood Junction a few years back) would become unjustified if the SG were to be rerouted any time soon, for the few trains coming out of Adelaide Parklands Terminal.
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Re: Next Stage of Rail Electrification - Adelaide

Postby softgrow » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:36 am

Probably get more ROI from converting the passenger lines to Standard gauge. It will be a long time before freight disappears from the hills or Belair is electrified. This would allow more flexibility in operations for both freight and passenger for passing and closing sections for track work.
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Re: Next Stage of Rail Electrification - Adelaide

Postby TA3001 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:47 am

In the 1990s at some point, I remember catching a Belair train in a pox box, and there was a freight behind it, so the down train went along the up track whilst the freight cheerfully sailed past!

Isn't the freight line owned by ARTC? So wouldn't there be access fees for each service that used the current freight line, assuming it was reinstated for metro use?

I think it's less of a PITA just to leave it as it is, as it would almost cause armageddon if a freight rear-ended a passenger train. Also, 1.5 km long freights changing tracks near Goodwood would not be friendly towards on time running for suburban trains. The ultimate solution would be to electrify the passenger line, but obviously this won't happen any time soon.
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Re: Next Stage of Rail Electrification - Adelaide

Postby Route 506 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:20 pm

Whilst talking about the Belair line, I often think it's such a shame that line was closed from Bridgewater back to Belair. Quite possibly in 1987 the patronage wasn't there, but now with the housing boom in the Hills I would have thought people would support this service, maybe even all the way to Mt Barker but at least Bridgewater again. It would also be very popular for tourists surely. Would it even be possible to ever re-open that stretch of the track to Adelaide Metro trains again if the idea was raised? In saying that I would think electrification would happen first, but I don't expect Belair line to be electrified for many years yet.
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Re: Next Stage of Rail Electrification - Adelaide

Postby TA3001 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:24 pm

Route 506 wrote:Whilst talking about the Belair line, I often think it's such a shame that line was closed from Bridgewater back to Belair. Quite possibly in 1987 the patronage wasn't there, but now with the housing boom in the Hills I would have thought people would support this service, maybe even all the way to Mt Barker but at least Bridgewater again. It would also be very popular for tourists surely. Would it even be possible to ever re-open that stretch of the track to Adelaide Metro trains again if the idea was raised? In saying that I would think electrification would happen first, but I don't expect Belair line to be electrified for many years yet.


Given the line is controlled by ARTC, the DPTI would face rather expensive access fees if the entire system was regauged to standard and services beyond Belair resumed. This would be due to the trains causing freights to be delayed to make way for suburban operations. It would be more desirable to have services going to Mt Barker, but these would have to skip a lot of stations to come close to competing with the T840 service.

Estimated travel times would be

Adelaide: 1714
Corromandel: 1733
Blackwood: 1735
Belair: 1740
Mt Lofty: 1751
Aldgate: 1755
Bridgewater: 1756
Ambleside: 1804
Balhannah: 1807
Mt Barker Junction: 1812
Little Hampton: 1815
Mt Barker 1817

Add about 13 minutes if it's all stops. If you miss the train, you may have to wait another 30 minutes. The service end up being peak only or hourly due to the reasons mentioned.
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Re: Next Stage of Rail Electrification - Adelaide

Postby Route 506 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:36 pm

TA3001 wrote:
Route 506 wrote:Whilst talking about the Belair line, I often think it's such a shame that line was closed from Bridgewater back to Belair. Quite possibly in 1987 the patronage wasn't there, but now with the housing boom in the Hills I would have thought people would support this service, maybe even all the way to Mt Barker but at least Bridgewater again. It would also be very popular for tourists surely. Would it even be possible to ever re-open that stretch of the track to Adelaide Metro trains again if the idea was raised? In saying that I would think electrification would happen first, but I don't expect Belair line to be electrified for many years yet.


Given the line is controlled by ARTC, the DPTI would face rather expensive access fees if the entire system was regauged to standard and services beyond Belair resumed. This would be due to the trains causing freights to be delayed to make way for suburban operations. It would be more desirable to have services going to Mt Barker, but these would have to skip a lot of stations to come close to competing with the T840 service.

Estimated travel times would be

Adelaide: 1714
Corromandel: 1733
Blackwood: 1735
Belair: 1740
Mt Lofty: 1751
Aldgate: 1755
Bridgewater: 1756
Ambleside: 1804
Balhannah: 1807
Mt Barker Junction: 1812
Little Hampton: 1815
Mt Barker 1817

Add about 13 minutes if it's all stops. If you miss the train, you may have to wait another 30 minutes. The service end up being peak only or hourly due to the reasons mentioned.


Thanks TA3001 for that information - I personally would love to see this happen one day but certainly wouldn't be holding my breath! No question the T840 and T843 would be faster to Mt Barker, but it would be great having an alternate option, and would connect the South Eastern Foothills suburbs with the fast growing Mt Barker/Hills region
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Re: Next Stage of Rail Electrification - Adelaide

Postby TA3001 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:28 pm

And I just noticed that with that (hypothetical) timetable, I forgot to carry over a few minutes of added time past Aldgate, so add another 2 -3 minutes to that schedule. Be warned in advance, it could be life changing!
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Re: Next Stage of Rail Electrification - Adelaide

Postby Linto63 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:25 pm

So I guess this means the original plan to covert 3000/3100 class DMUs to EMUs is dead? Given that the early examples are now over 30 years old and the decrease in the costs of new builds in recent years, not surprising.
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Re: Next Stage of Rail Electrification - Adelaide

Postby Heardy_101 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:11 pm

Think it died when Abbott withdrew all funding for public transport.
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