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Ltd stop buses and destos (split from "Southern Expressway)

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Ltd stop buses and destos (split from "Southern Expressway)

Postby Piggles » Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:35 pm

Any thoughts on having T721 run throughout all times of the day now the expressway is both ways?
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Re: Southern Expressway

Postby Lt. Commander Data » Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:24 pm

Piggles wrote:Any thoughts on having T721 run throughout all times of the day now the expressway is both ways?


All "T" buses should be all day, replaced with "X" services at peak, but not "T***X", thats just stupid.
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Re: Southern Expressway

Postby Bodø Glimt » Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:05 pm

Piggles wrote:Any thoughts on having T721 run throughout all times of the day now the expressway is both ways?


There probably isn't enough demand to warrant it. During the day it probably wouldn't be that much quicker than a 721F.
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Re: Southern Expressway

Postby Skexis » Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:52 am

Lt. Commander Data wrote:
Piggles wrote:Any thoughts on having T721 run throughout all times of the day now the expressway is both ways?


All "T" buses should be all day, replaced with "X" services at peak, but not "T***X", thats just stupid.

All day T721's would have hardly any passengers at all and would not be cost effective to run.

Down and up T721's are limited stop all the way whereas X services (down) are express to stop 40 then all stops and services (up) are all stops to 40 then express into town. How would replacing T's with X's serve anyone at all? Doing away with the X would be better as the F's would take up any slack and the T's would get people to Reynella quicker whereupon they could catch an F.

As to the T721X - the only time that's a good route is when you're driving it as it's pretty useless to everyone else. I say scrap that one. Also there are occasions when, coming out of town in the evenings, you have a T721 right up the clacker of a 721X which in turn is tailing a 721F. Route needs paring back a bit as there are far too many buses vieing for the same passengers and this isn't counting the all but useless T721X.

As to the 722 route, only a drug-addled chimp could have come up with the permutations we have now. 722F goes one way, the 722X goes another and lo!, the T722 goes a 3rd way. No consistency whatsoever. I reckon instead of doing away with the T748 they should have run that from Seaford Rise into town using the T722 route from Seaford and done away with the existing T722. At least it would have simplified the 722 collection.

Edit: and the 723F needs an extra stop by the Kenihans Rd Park n'Ride.
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Re: Southern Expressway

Postby Bodø Glimt » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:04 am

Skexis wrote:Edit: and the 723F needs an extra stop by the Kenihans Rd Park n'Ride.


I can't see why as the 723F doesn't pass it. :P
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Re: Southern Expressway

Postby Skexis » Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:55 pm

Bodø Glimt wrote:
Skexis wrote:Edit: and the 723F needs an extra stop by the Kenihans Rd Park n'Ride.


I can't see why as the 723F doesn't pass it. :P

Oops - 723X, not F. My bad.
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Re: Southern Expressway

Postby Lt. Commander Data » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:16 pm

Skexis wrote:
Lt. Commander Data wrote:
All "T" buses should be all day, replaced with "X" services at peak, but not "T***X", thats just stupid.

All day T721's would have hardly any passengers at all and would not be cost effective to run.

Down and up T721's are limited stop all the way whereas X services (down) are express to stop 40 then all stops and services (up) are all stops to 40 then express into town. How would replacing T's with X's serve anyone at all? Doing away with the X would be better as the F's would take up any slack and the T's would get people to Reynella quicker whereupon they could catch an F.

As to the T721X - the only time that's a good route is when you're driving it as it's pretty useless to everyone else. I say scrap that one. Also there are occasions when, coming out of town in the evenings, you have a T721 right up the clacker of a 721X which in turn is tailing a 721F. Route needs paring back a bit as there are far too many buses vieing for the same passengers and this isn't counting the all but useless T721X.

As to the 722 route, only a drug-addled chimp could have come up with the permutations we have now. 722F goes one way, the 722X goes another and lo!, the T722 goes a 3rd way. No consistency whatsoever. I reckon instead of doing away with the T748 they should have run that from Seaford Rise into town using the T722 route from Seaford and done away with the existing T722. At least it would have simplified the 722 collection.

Edit: and the 723F needs an extra stop by the Kenihans Rd Park n'Ride.


I saw a T721X in the city once, and there were about 3 people on it. Would it be quicker than a train, or slower because it has to compete with South road traffic?

As for the T722/722F/722X, it is completely stupid that they all go different ways, it would be like the 865 being re-numbered 863F!
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Re: Southern Expressway

Postby TA3001 » Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:46 pm

Lt. Commander Data wrote:
I saw a T721X in the city once, and there were about 3 people on it. Would it be quicker than a train, or slower because it has to compete with South road traffic?

As for the T722/722F/722X, it is completely stupid that they all go different ways, it would be like the 865 being re-numbered 863F!


Today's T722 used to be numbered T726. I don't know why it was renumbered. Has there been any route changes to it?

There are a lot of faults with the route numbers especially with the stupid through linked routes numbered with letters. The number is supposed to make it obvious whether it's first stop ( ) or not, not the desto which changes display every few seconds and makes it easy to just miss the information you need as your bus pulls up. Sure you could ask the driver but why should you have to? It's just like the 500 and 502 routes. It used to be numbered T500 and and you could tell it was limited stops.

Nowadays, it's all stops between Montacute road and Paradise after 7pm and you still can't tell by looking at the desto. None of these flaws are helpful for new PT users.
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Re: Southern Expressway

Postby Bodø Glimt » Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:15 am

I've never been a fan of scrolling destos. I said it somewhere in the Queensland forums but destos should be number and the final destination - nothing more.
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Re: Southern Expressway

Postby howlerbus » Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:07 pm

You need at least one scroll on some routes where theres many routes going to the same terminus. You would want at least one scroll on the 271 so people dont confuse it for a track bus
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Re: Southern Expressway

Postby Lt. Commander Data » Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:49 pm

TA3001 wrote:
Lt. Commander Data wrote:
I saw a T721X in the city once, and there were about 3 people on it. Would it be quicker than a train, or slower because it has to compete with South road traffic?

As for the T722/722F/722X, it is completely stupid that they all go different ways, it would be like the 865 being re-numbered 863F!


Today's T722 used to be numbered T726. I don't know why it was renumbered. Has there been any route changes to it?


The T726 went to the former T748 terminus instead of Seaford centre
howlerbus wrote:You need at least one scroll on some routes where theres many routes going to the same terminus. You would want at least one scroll on the 271 so people dont confuse it for a track bus


Unless you knew that all track buses (should) start with the number 5
Bodø Glimt wrote:I've never been a fan of scrolling destos. I said it somewhere in the Queensland forums but destos should be number and the final destination - nothing more.


I think you do need scrolling destos, but 2 scrolls should be the max

As for the (T)500/(T)501/502, I say reintroduce the T500-1 and have the 502 as an all stops bus
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Re: Southern Expressway

Postby The Phonj » Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:03 pm

I'm more of the thought that the desto should have the terminus as the top line; with the bottom line scrolling through a maximum of three 'via' lines.
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Re: Southern Expressway

Postby Skexis » Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:31 pm

That would work for the newer LED destos as they are more easily read but for the older style well no, as per Bodo Glimt's comment above. Half of them can't even be easily read when you're standing right in front of the bus in a depot.

To my mind ALL destos should be revisited and amended to make them easier to read for the person at the kerbside. No-one should really care that a 721 will connect with a 725 and a 734 at Old Reynella. The fact it goes there should be sufficient.

The issue with dodgy desto's lies in the fact there are many different versions and what works on a CB80 won't look anywhere near as legible on an 18-280 or, worse still, one of the older 11-190's. Creating/amending destos is done using one PC software program (Karen I think it's called) and what looks good on the PC screen does not necessarily translate well to desto boxes on the buses. Many are different and it would be impractical to have multiple designs for each route to match each individual bus type as there would be a high possibility of the wrong one being used.

To the mods - maybe the posts relating to destos could be split into a different thread commencing with the post by Lt. Commander Data » Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:46 pm ?
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Re: Southern Expressway

Postby TA3001 » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:10 pm

Lt. Commander Data wrote:
As for the (T)500/(T)501/502, I say reintroduce the T500-1 and have the 502 as an all stops bus


A Transfield driver mentioned to me that they're not supposed to stop all stops along Bridge or Montacute Rd at all (even after 7pm) due to it being part of Southlink's contract area.

The (T)500 would've been discontinued for most of the day due to it being mostly a duplicate of the 224/560 services beyond Salisbury, despite it getting reasonable patronage. Now that it's stopped running, other services are starting to fill up more. I went on a 400 around March this year that was an NL and it had a standing load coming into to Elizabeth.

Perhaps the (T)500 should be brought back to split up some of these loadings, even if costs the government a few extra grand per year to do it. I reckon it could be practical to trial a 15 minute frequency 400 service between 7AM and 6PM, like the 411. What do others think of these concepts?

(Btw, might be an idea to split this discussion into its own thread)
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Re: Southern Expressway

Postby howlerbus » Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:24 am

TA3001 wrote:
Lt. Commander Data wrote:
As for the (T)500/(T)501/502, I say reintroduce the T500-1 and have the 502 as an all stops bus


A Transfield driver mentioned to me that they're not supposed to stop all stops along Bridge or Montacute Rd at all (even after 7pm) due to it being part of Southlink's contract area.

The (T)500 would've been discontinued for most of the day due to it being mostly a duplicate of the 224/560 services beyond Salisbury, despite it getting reasonable patronage. Now that it's stopped running, other services are starting to fill up more. I went on a 400 around March this year that was an NL and it had a standing load coming into to Elizabeth.

Perhaps the (T)500 should be brought back to split up some of these loadings, even if costs the government a few extra grand per year to do it. I reckon it could be practical to trial a 15 minute frequency 400 service between 7AM and 6PM, like the 411. What do others think of these concepts?

(Btw, might be an idea to split this discussion into its own thread)


Transfield dont operate anywhere near Montacute Road (thats where the 178 goes), youre thinking of Montague Road
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Re: Southern Expressway

Postby TA3001 » Mon Aug 18, 2014 11:08 am

howlerbus wrote:
Transfield dont operate anywhere near Montacute Road (thats where the 178 goes), youre thinking of Montague Road


Yep, that's the one I meant. It's easy to get these confused
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Re: Southern Expressway

Postby Eurostar » Mon Aug 18, 2014 11:54 am

I say get rid of the Ts and just have 721X, 722X, 723X, 725X, (726X via Panalatinga Road) running during peak times.
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Re: Southern Expressway

Postby Lt. Commander Data » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:05 pm

Eurostar wrote:I say get rid of the Ts and just have 721X, 722X, 723X, 725X, (726X via Panalatinga Road) running during peak times.


I dunno, the T bus concept is a good one (the fact that it stops only at main stops where people are more likely to get on and off) but during peak there should definitely be more X buses, and all T buses (all 5 of them) would be replaced at peak with X buses.
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Re: Ltd stop buses and destos (split from "Southern Expressw

Postby Eurostar » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:57 pm

Getting rid of the orange stops so you knew it was a TransitLink stop and replacing it with a sticker saying LS was silly.
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Re: Ltd stop buses and destos (split from "Southern Expressw

Postby TA3001 » Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:09 pm

Eurostar wrote:Getting rid of the orange stops so you knew it was a TransitLink stop and replacing it with a sticker saying LS was silly.


It's not as bad as the stops at TTP interchange where it doesn't tell you what stops where. It just says Zone A, B etc with no info of what bus stops there. What do Admet think we are? Humans or robots?
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Re: Ltd stop buses and destos (split from "Southern Expressw

Postby Skexis » Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:41 pm

TA3001 wrote:What do Admet think we are? Humans or robots?

You forgot the third choice - cattle.
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Re: Ltd stop buses and destos (split from "Southern Expressw

Postby Eagle Eye » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:04 pm

TA3001 wrote:It's not as bad as the stops at TTP interchange where it doesn't tell you what stops where. It just says Zone A, B etc with no info of what bus stops there.

That's what the TV screens are for... but it makes it difficult when you have to walk to the TV screens to find out what stops at the zone you're at.

TA3001 wrote:A Transfield driver mentioned to me that they're not supposed to stop all stops along Bridge or Montacute Rd at all (even after 7pm) due to it being part of Southlink's contract area.

Hampstead Rd was transferred from the Outer North to North-South and Bridge Rd is in the Outer North East contract (or is it in the North-South also??) Montague Rd belongs to the Outer North contract, and LCB's limited stop 500, 501, 502 and N502 services can only service stop 37C which is a Transit Link stop.

The N502 appears to be the only After Midnight service that does not stop at all stops! This is contradicted by the statement that After Midnight services can set down at any safe location upon request!!! :shock:
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Re: Ltd stop buses and destos (split from "Southern Expressw

Postby TA3001 » Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:48 am

Eagle Eye wrote:That's what the TV screens are for... but it makes it difficult when you have to walk to the TV screens to find out what stops at the zone you're at.


I agree. Until you mentioned it, I didn't even know there was a screen which tells you what 'zone' you need to go to. Isn't it safer just to be able to find your info out at the stop you're at? What if there's some kind of brawl or incident deterring you from going to the screen, and then you miss your bus because you didn't know which stop to the go to?

Why was all this money wasted to 'upgrade' this interchange with these stupid pieces of paper? So much has changed in the last few years with these 'improvements' to the network which have effectively made it harder for passengers to find out the information they need. Most of the through linked routes don't say F or anything either.
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Re: Southern Expressway

Postby Lt. Commander Data » Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:37 pm

TA3001 wrote:
Lt. Commander Data wrote:
As for the (T)500/(T)501/502, I say reintroduce the T500-1 and have the 502 as an all stops bus


A Transfield driver mentioned to me that they're not supposed to stop all stops along Bridge or Montacute Rd at all (even after 7pm) due to it being part of Southlink's contract area.


If thats the case they should re-introduce the 205/6 and have Hampstead and bridge rd neutral to the Outer North and north south contract areas, all thought this would cause direct competition I think that is healthy
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Re: Ltd stop buses and destos (split from "Southern Expressw

Postby Eagle Eye » Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:54 pm

TA3001 wrote:What if there's some kind of brawl or incident deterring you from going to the screen, and then you miss your bus because you didn't know which stop to the go to?

Yes, because there is a brawl about every 30 minutes which prevents people from reading the screen #really #bluemooner
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