Overcrowding Buses

[L433]

Hi Guys, my brother was telling me that he gets frustrated trying to catch the 222 bus in the Valley just after 5pm, latley the bus has been overcrowded,and the driver cannot pick any more passangers up. I told him that he should catch the 232 but he says it takes to long, which i agree. So are there any plans to upgrade buses in the Eastern Suburubs?

[T1245]

Hi Guys, my brother was telling me that he gets frustrated trying to catch the 222 bus in the Valley just after 5pm, latley the bus has been overcrowded,and the driver cannot pick any more passangers up. I told him that he should catch the 232 but he says it takes to long, which i agree. So are there any plans to upgrade buses in the Eastern Suburubs?

its not just the 222 that gets overcrowded in peak, nearly every route does! im not sure when the next bus peak frequency upgrade is for buses as thy are currently 50 buses short for peak services....

the only bus route to the eastern suburbs that doesnt get full in peakhour is the 202 to Carindale, but i dont live near the area so i dont quite know... ABS, mbrowne1045 or T1200 know more about them than me...

[Noel]

The 202 is a totaly milk run, that's why it never gets overcrowded.

As for upgrades, might be a while in the waiting unless all these new buses appear out of thin air.

[PAQ12]

its not just the 222 that gets overcrowded in peak, nearly every route does!

What do you class as overcrowded? Is it a fully seated load, fully seated with some standees or at legal maximum carrying capacity of both fully seated & standees!, cause if it is the third, I have to disagree with you! Very rarely do I leave the City in PM peak and have to ring Bus Control to advise them that i'm full!

[ABS]

The 202 is based on the consolidation of about 5 different local bus routes which is why it goes all over the place.

[Matty]

its not just the 222 that gets overcrowded in peak, nearly every route does!

Hmm give you an exception. I was on this 431, there's only 4 passengers when leaving the city (including me) and 1 more passenger got on at Milton. But usually there are no more than half full (half-seated no standees that is)

[nikko]

And there are a few drivers who will display bus full when clearly they're not.

This happened on the district route I use, leaving school kids behind with no way to get home.

And no, the bus was not at capacity for all you smartarses, I counted passengers myself. It was a Scania, so there was room for 64 pax and I counted 52 (give or take 5). I advised the driver of this and how he would be facing reprimand for being such an incosiderate bastard. I haven't seen him on the road since.

[L433]

222 Overcrowded= Bus is Full from people standing Rear of bus to the Driver. Maybe the BCC should cancel that 431 run when only 5ppl get on board permitly and use that Bus and driver on the 222 where it would be better suited!

Also another question could the BCC go and lease another 50 Buses from Scania or MAN even though the buses might be run on diesel. Lease the buses for 5 yrs and hand them back? like what they are doing with the Mercs.

[PAQ12]

And there are a few drivers who will display bus full when clearly they're not.

As reported from a letter to the editor to the Courier Mail, not all times can we see all the way down the back of the bus as there are too many people standing down the front.

This happened on the district route I use, leaving school kids behind with no way to get home.

I've done your district route on a number of times, and you know what I think of some of those students. Kids pushing other kids out the door, making more noise than a sports carnival!

And no, the bus was not at capacity for all you smartarses, I counted passengers myself. It was a Scania, so there was room for 64 pax and I counted 52 (give or take 5). I advised the driver of this and how he would be facing reprimand for being such an incosiderate bastard. I haven't seen him on the road since.

62 is the governed carrying capacity of a Scania, although there is to be no more than 18 standees. If alot of the students have large bags (or more so swimming day where some kids will have a school bag & swimming or sports bag), you limit the amount of room in the bus, and the luggage racks can only hold so much before over-flowing thus reducing the council policy of 'Zero Harm', which then would create harm.

I'm not picking on you 'Nikko', i'm just making an observation which alot of people are unaware of, and that means anyone, not just you!

[C736]

First of all 431 is a toowong route, 222 is a carina route, that driver can't do a carina route. The solution isn't that easy. 222 is regularly full until the other side of the story bridge where it emptys out of shafton college students. They all could catch 231/236/216/221 services but they insist on catching 222/232.

I had a district route the other day that has multiple services from the school, mine was totally chockers, I told the kids to move all the way back, it was totally chockers. 4 other students arrived and said they needed this bus to catch connections, I said you make them move and you can get on, these girls yelled screamed threatened and sure enough they moved and they fitted on!

Even though carina is the 'quiet' side of town BTOTI, i'd say about 50% of the peak hour services I do would result in a sorry bus full situation.

About the 202, in peak there is also the 208, so they gets the workers home as well.

[T1245]

The 202 is based on the consolidation of about 5 different local bus routes which is why it goes all over the place.

which is why i use it in peak to over take the 196 when ive just missed it!

the routes which 202 consolidates are..:

196, 197, 198, 200, 204, 206

[daveeyh]

First of all 431 is a toowong route, 222 is a carina route, that driver can't do a carina route. The solution isn't that easy. 222 is regularly full until the other side of the story bridge where it emptys out of shafton college students. They all could catch 231/236/216/221 services but they insist on catching 222/232.

I think this highlights an issue - some people have too much choice of services, especially those people who live close to the city.

Some examples:

1. Passengers insisting on travelling on outbound 130s/150s/200s etc to go from the City to Cultural Centre or Southbank. There are plenty of all stop services that they could get and free up some ex-City capacity on high-capacity routes. (Solution: Southside peak Hour BUZ outes are pick-up only until after Mater Hill.)

2. Passengers travelling from the City to the Valley refusing to use terminating Valley services (e.g. 204, 203, etc) and insisting on getting on "through" services (e.g. 300, 306, 370, 375). (Solution: Services travelling past the Valley are pick-up only until after their Valley timing point.)

3. Specifically with the new 305 service, passengers between city and Eagle Farm Racecourse now can choose between 300 and 305 in peak hour, so if the 300 arrives before the 305, the 300 still gets overcrowded and the 305 runs empty. (Solution: Peak-hour 300 is pick-up only [or express] until Racecourse Road, Hamilton.)

There are plenty of other examples where services should be more targetted to specific areas without having to service all areas in between.

BT used to have a lot of "Limited Pick-Up" and "Limited Set Down" services during peak time and I think they need to be looking at returning to some of these so that people who need a specific bus have the opportunity to get on that bus in preference to someone who is going a handful of stops and has the choice of multiple routes to get there.

[T1245]

they really need to do that with the 196. from the cultural centre/city to vulture st south brisbane, they need to make it pick up only. there are too many people who get on and get off at the browning st-melbourne st area which really slows down the trip to those who live in Highgate Hill/Dutton Park where it is their main access to the city.

[ABS]

The 202 is based on the consolidation of about 5 different local bus routes which is why it goes all over the place.

which is why i use it in peak to over take the 196 when ive just missed it!

the routes which 202 consolidates are..:

196, 197, 198, 200, 204, 206

Not true. The 202 was the consolidation of about 5 different routes (pre-1999) under the OLD numbering system. Around Camp Hill and Carina there were many pointless local services that were infrequent and went all over the place. When Brisbane City Council overhauled the routes and numbering system in 1999 the 202 replaced these local services.

On another note you need to look up a dictionary and you might actually learn what the word 'consolidate' means.

[nikko]

And there are a few drivers who will display bus full when clearly they're not.

As reported from a letter to the editor to the Courier Mail, not all times can we see all the way down the back of the bus as there are too many people standing down the front.

This happened on the district route I use, leaving school kids behind with no way to get home.

I've done your district route on a number of times, and you know what I think of some of those students. Kids pushing other kids out the door, making more noise than a sports carnival!

And no, the bus was not at capacity for all you smartarses, I counted passengers myself. It was a Scania, so there was room for 64 pax and I counted 52 (give or take 5). I advised the driver of this and how he would be facing reprimand for being such an incosiderate bastard. I haven't seen him on the road since.

62 is the governed carrying capacity of a Scania, although there is to be no more than 18 standees. If alot of the students have large bags (or more so swimming day where some kids will have a school bag & swimming or sports bag), you limit the amount of room in the bus, and the luggage racks can only hold so much before over-flowing thus reducing the council policy of 'Zero Harm', which then would create harm.

I'm not picking on you 'Nikko', i'm just making an observation which alot of people are unaware of, and that means anyone, not just you!

Well basically, there should be measures in place for young children who have no other way of getting home. And wouldn't refusing children be impeeding on the 'zero harm' policy? I think this matter needs to be further investigated.

Now, I know you're not picking on me...you just can help sprouting your usual bullshit about how bus drivers are the ultimate authority on everything in our society.
Really, act like a human for once. If one of those kids were my brother or sister, I would have let the driver have it (even moreso than I did), and I'm quite certain many people would have aswell.

[Volvo B12BLEA]

With an attitude like just above this post, no wonder School Kids don't get respect from Adults.
Also why School Kids get referred to as "Ferals"!!!!

What happened to discipline and kids having "respect for your elders"???

[nikko]

With an attitude like just above this post, no wonder School Kids don't get respect from Adults.
Also why School Kids get referred to as "Ferals"!!!!

Apart from your little insecurities, do you actually have reason why you disagree with my statements? Honestly, what do you think the right approach would be to this situation?

I stand by my post. The bus wasn't full and serious harm could have come across these children if they had no other way to get home.

[Volvo B12BLEA]

As much as it may seem that the driver has done wrong, you don't abuse him.
Correct procedure would be to make firm complaint, no being abusive by swearing etc, to the Depot or in the case of BT, ring the BCC Call Centre.

How would you like it if someone started abusing you by swearing, shouting etc?

This applies to everybody, I am not singling out any particular person/s.

I have had my say about this.

[Noel]

And wouldn't refusing children be impeeding on the 'zero harm' policy? I think this matter needs to be further investigated.

Policies such as this are in place for a reason, if unsure about the reason then perhaps you should ring up BT and ask them why or make a complaint.

As for people who go rank at bus drivers (or any other profession for that matter), I hope they are left behind, then and in the future - they don't deserve to be yelled at, especially when they are following procedure.

[nick0252]

I'd tend to agree that loosing your cool at the driver won't achieve much here either.

Yes - the situation you described is hardly ideal but what do you want the driver to do about it? Pull out his spell book kept behind the seat of every bus and find the one that says "convert bus to articulated vehicle", pull out the wand (included free with the book no doubt) and do the whole abra kadabra thing?

Ring the phone number printed on every ticket, where a computer will answer, align your vocal cords to say the word "feedback" where you will be played some soothing and relaxing music until a real life person speaks to you. You say you have a complaint and they pull out a form and then you tell them the problem, describing the details date busses etc. If you then actually have a solution, tell them that too!

They even ask you if you would like someone from Translink to contact you back once the matter has been investigated - which they do. I have had phone calls from them and letters from Brisbane Transport sent after I have provided feedback in the past!

On top of all that, I watched a passenger one day have a go at a driver (AKA the inconsiderate bastard remark above) and the driver fair turned it back on the passenger, ripped it through them and in the process blasted everyone from the "passengers on ipswich road" to campbell newman and the management of brisbane transport! It was truly an inspirational moment, I nearly got up and clapped after she finised her spiel.

But how embarrasing if you were the passenger!

[PAQ12]

you just can help sprouting your usual bullshit about how bus drivers are the ultimate authority on everything in our society.
Really, act like a human for once. If one of those kids were my brother or sister, I would have let the driver have it (even moreso than I did), and I'm quite certain many people would have aswell.

Ouch!

Grow up child, and stop acting like a know-it-all! The older you get, the bigger the smartarse your becoming!

You gave incorrect information in your original post regarding Scania carrying capacity, and your unsure as to the exact number of passengers on that particular bus (give or take is not exact)! So if you don't want someone to comment or give you feedback - please ensure your complaint has valid facts first!

The bus driver is in control of the bus, and it is our licence & drivers authorisation we need to keep our jobs, and I for one will not endanger the passengers that are on the bus just to squeeze more on!
If you feel the driver could've done more, but chose not too, do something about it, like telephone or email BCC and go through the normal complaints process, rather than posting what you posted!

And this is from someone who received a free ride each time I drove their district bus (and each time without a thanks for the free ride), and this is the type of comments I get back!

I'm not defending the driver in question of his/her actions as we are only hearing the side of 1 person, and not both, but I will defend mine when i'm be-littled by someone who is yet to learn abit more about the proceedures, policies & rules that are governed on a bus operator by both BT, TL & QT!

To make formal complaints or compliments about a bus service, a driver of a service, stops, timetables etc etc, you can do this by following the 2 links provided:
Brisbane City Council
TransLink

[nikko]

I contacted BT as soon as I got home, therefore the remark that I haven't seen the driver since.

I think it is unacceptable the driver did not at least inform bus control of the situation and I think it is even more unacceptable you agree with his actions. Furthermore, the drivers perspective of the story would be very weak. The same amount of studends board that bus every week without any problems, so I hardly think the driver has any justification for his actions.

I believe 55+5 is still only 60. The maximum carrying capacity of a Scania L94UB with Volgren CR224L body is 62.

And, for the record I have thanked you many times, get your facts straight.

[C736]

I contacted BT as soon as I got home, therefore the remark that I haven't seen the driver since.

I find it hard to believe that your 'comment' has resulted in the driver being taken 'off' that run. I've barely done any district route more than once since being on the job. We very rarely have to do the same run over and over again. After the drivers last experience he probably swaps it if he does get it!!

At the end of the day again, what purpose does it serve to go off your head on this forum no matter what the circumstances. Following the correct course of action and get on with life

[PAQ12]

Well it is good that you did put in a complaint, and it unacceptable that the driver didn't call bus control to advise that he was full, as that is the proceedure if he/she feels the bus is full.

I am not accepting the drivers actions - in fact I tell my drivers on my late team at most team meetings that if your full, call it in, but ensure you are full first, as management can check ticketing data to see if the call was valid or not, but that doesn't mean to say the driver presses the count button a few more times. But remember, baggage & prams/wheel chairs can through such records out aswell!

Although i've mentioned and have listed on my site the carrying capacity of each make of bus, this is the information we are given as a guide only. The technical information as explained to me by a past employee of Urban Management who has had great dealings with bus purchasing is this (if anyone can find the actual wording of the act, I and I presume many others would be greatly appreciated):
Carrying capacity goes by weight, of which is done on a S4 calculation, yet BT don't have anyone who is certified to do an S4 calculation, and thus left upto QLD transport.
I know what I weigh, but for you Nikko, and any of the others I know personally, I wouldn't have a clue, and then we would need calculators & add new passenger weights & subtract passenger weights - what a nightmare - just install scales on the front platform

On average, your district route is at near capacity, although i've done it at times with only half a bus full (1 day you weren't there).
If the near of overcrowding is an issue, raise it with your local member to see if they can provide another district route - and as we are coming into an election, this is the most idealistic time - but do it through state government, not local government as it is the state that manages TransLink who will then offer the funding, not the local!

[T1200]

it unacceptable that the driver didn't call bus control to advise that he was full, as that is the proceedure if he/she feels the bus is full.

I have never seen that happen when 130s etc get full.