Translink Bus Routes

Brisbane / QLD Transport Discussion

Moderator: T1200

Re: Translink Bus Routes

Postby SM247 » Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:26 pm

simonl wrote:
SM247 wrote:Exactly, all departmental CEOs are issued with emergency wands so they can magick the necessary cash out of the air. :lol:

No, but they refuse to do things which would SAVE money.


At very least they haven't cut services, which is a phenomenon which seems to have affected every other major system in the country (except arguably Adelaide). Perth, Canberra, Sydney and Melbourne have all lost various services in recent years.

I imagine you are referring to the fluff (corporate/marketing crap, expensive open days, the ribbon cutting effect, repainting buses green etc)?

I would like to see their detailed costings on how the additional fare revenue will actually start to generate improvements instead of this fluff about 'x' number of seats per week, which is not evidence of anything.
Now that this place has become a little bit more sensible, I am back in business.
User avatar
SM247
 
Posts: 2743
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 7:31 am
Location: Cavill Avenue Station
Favourite Vehicle: Citadis 302

Re: Translink Bus Routes

Postby simonl » Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:32 pm

SM247 wrote:I imagine you are referring to the fluff (corporate/marketing crap, expensive open days, the ribbon cutting effect, repainting buses green etc)?

No, I'm thinking more of things like combining 66 & 109, running inbound 4xx CityXpress buses via the busway in the AM peak, greater use of KGSBS to get buses out of inner city traffic etc. There's also so much empty running in the system, some of which would probably be better off as revenue services: In particular counter peak on the Northern Busway. I suspect that the operator pays for empty runs but Translink pays for revenue services which might be a reason for empty runs, albeit not a good one.

Since I've already posted a lot of details on these things, I didn't want to write a thesis here.

EDIT: They also refuse to do things that would be zero effective cost.
simonl
 
Posts: 714
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:03 pm

Re: Translink Bus Routes

Postby Scania » Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:59 pm

simonl wrote:running inbound 4xx CityXpress buses via the busway in the AM peak


That wouldn't be good, the Cultural Centre is already jam packed in peak hour...
600 posts achieved on 7/6/10 !!!
User avatar
Scania
 
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:02 am
Location: Mount Gravatt East
Favourite Vehicle: BT's 459-461

Re: Translink Bus Routes

Postby simonl » Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:11 pm

Scania wrote:
simonl wrote:running inbound 4xx CityXpress buses via the busway in the AM peak


That wouldn't be good, the Cultural Centre is already jam packed in peak hour...

Perhaps I should have been clearer. I meant the busway starting from Skew St.
simonl
 
Posts: 714
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:03 pm

Re: Translink Bus Routes

Postby brett_lee » Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:43 pm

simonl wrote:
SM247 wrote:I imagine you are referring to the fluff (corporate/marketing crap, expensive open days, the ribbon cutting effect, repainting buses green etc)?

No, I'm thinking more of things like combining 66 & 109, running inbound 4xx CityXpress buses via the busway in the AM peak, greater use of KGSBS to get buses out of inner city traffic etc. There's also so much empty running in the system, some of which would probably be better off as revenue services: In particular counter peak on the Northern Busway. I suspect that the operator pays for empty runs but Translink pays for revenue services which might be a reason for empty runs, albeit not a good one.

Since I've already posted a lot of details on these things, I didn't want to write a thesis here.

EDIT: They also refuse to do things that would be zero effective cost.


Yeah I definatly agree with you, theres so many ways to combine and fixup the routes within the network to allow for greater use of money within the network. Mergining the 66 and 109 is something ive thought about for a while now, you'd be linking 3 major hospitals, 2 major universies, tran stations to busways and inner northen city to inner southern city.

I don't know if you guys agree with me here because you might think that there's services to UQ already, but i think another good option with Southern Routes would be to create a '159' Service which would follow the 157 Route to Fruitgrove Station, continuing straight along Beenleigh Road and going via Stiller Drive Kuraby, onto Underwood Road then via 150 Route to Garden City then to UQ lakes. This would enable more ease for UQ students for the southside, and assisting with the strain of 150's, 156's and 157's through the Runcorn stretch especially throughout peak and create more frequent services from Garden City to Kuraby. If you wanted, you could probably even extend the 159 to stretton via the 156 and remove the 152, with the 155 alternated to travel via Daw Road then going down Gowan Road as the 152 does, continuing to Calamvale. Then you could either abolish the 554, just make it run from Kuraby to Logan Central or merge it with one of hte other Logan Local services such as the 572/574 or the 550 which is probably a better option, enabling a connection between Kuraby to Browns Plains, allowing Kuraby to still be linked to Logan Central Plaza. Thats just an idea, but with this you could condense 3 routes down to 1, with a slight extension on 1.
brett_lee
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:27 pm

Re: Translink Bus Routes

Postby simonl » Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:26 pm

brett_lee wrote:I don't know if you guys agree with me here because you might think that there's services to UQ already, but i think another good option with Southern Routes would be to create a '159' Service which would follow the 157 Route to Fruitgrove Station, continuing straight along Beenleigh Road and going via Stiller Drive Kuraby, onto Underwood Road then via 150 Route to Garden City then to UQ lakes. This would enable more ease for UQ students for the southside, and assisting with the strain of 150's, 156's and 157's through the Runcorn stretch especially throughout peak and create more frequent services from Garden City to Kuraby. If you wanted, you could probably even extend the 159 to stretton via the 156 and remove the 152, with the 155 alternated to travel via Daw Road then going down Gowan Road as the 152 does, continuing to Calamvale. Then you could either abolish the 554, just make it run from Kuraby to Logan Central or merge it with one of hte other Logan Local services such as the 572/574 or the 550 which is probably a better option, enabling a connection between Kuraby to Browns Plains, allowing Kuraby to still be linked to Logan Central Plaza. Thats just an idea, but with this you could condense 3 routes down to 1, with a slight extension on 1.

I don't know about this one. The bit of the 159 south of Fruitgrove station is a bit pointless: You'd be better off getting on a 150 and changing at Griffith Uni. The bit north of there would entirely depend on loads, I guess. Another problem would be that the serviced passengers aren't too far from Kuraby train station. Why not just improve train frequency?

As for 66+109 linking 3 hospitals, that would depend on extending it to RB&WH wouldn't it? Some advocate that, but I'm not in love with it, as all those empty runs are heading in the direction that the pax are going.

EDIT: spelling
Last edited by simonl on Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
simonl
 
Posts: 714
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:03 pm

Re: Translink Bus Routes

Postby Scania » Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:47 pm

simonl wrote:Perhaps I should have been clearer. I meant the busway starting from Skew St.


Phew... :P
600 posts achieved on 7/6/10 !!!
User avatar
Scania
 
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:02 am
Location: Mount Gravatt East
Favourite Vehicle: BT's 459-461

Re: Translink Bus Routes

Postby simonl » Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:47 pm

According to this thread: http://www.busaustralia.com/forum/viewt ... 96#p563296
The 139 & 169 are to have additional services from Feb 22. So perhaps brett_lee's idea of a 159 would have had a lot of merit, but I would just have it stick to Warrigal Rd, and probably start from Fruitgrove station.

EDIT: Actually if you are going to do this, then the idea of extending it to Stretton and removing the 152 is also pretty good.
simonl
 
Posts: 714
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:03 pm

Re: Translink Bus Routes

Postby simonl » Sun Feb 07, 2010 7:10 pm

simonl wrote:No, I'm thinking more of things like combining 66 & 109, running inbound 4xx CityXpress buses via the busway in the AM peak, greater use of KGSBS to get buses out of inner city traffic etc.

One other thing I thought was very wierd was putting the O'Keefe St portal on the Boggo Rd busway, but then not using it for the Ipswich Rd services. Of course, that does mean you can't service Woollongabba anymore, but it would save a couple of lights and so be worth it. Shouldn't they have thought about whether or not they wanted to use it before they built it?
simonl
 
Posts: 714
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:03 pm

Re: Translink Bus Routes

Postby PRT 065 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 7:33 pm

I know that prt and veolia use the okeffe street portal
On August 21 Dont Forget to vote Liberal
User avatar
PRT 065
 
Posts: 791
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:13 pm
Location: Brisbane But Prefer Sydney
Favourite Vehicle: Guess ?

Re: Translink Bus Routes

Postby simonl » Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:21 pm

PRT 065 wrote:I know that prt and veolia use the okeffe street portal

Really? What routes?

You aren't getting confused with the old O'Keefe St portal used by the 250, 251, 257, 265, 267, 270, 271, 273, 275? (Perhaps some others)
simonl
 
Posts: 714
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:03 pm

Re: Translink Bus Routes

Postby PRT 065 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:50 pm

AH Woops Sorry :oops: :oops: , Yes I was Thinking of that Portal
On August 21 Dont Forget to vote Liberal
User avatar
PRT 065
 
Posts: 791
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:13 pm
Location: Brisbane But Prefer Sydney
Favourite Vehicle: Guess ?

Re: Translink Bus Routes

Postby simonl » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:21 pm

Actually that brings up another problem the bus routes. Why's the 209 run through the gabba when it would be a fair bit faster to stick on Logan Rd/O'Keefe St and use this portal. And 156/157 why two routes that are so similar, but need to be picked up in the city in different locations?

Is the organisation run by Homer Simpson? You don't have to think about it much at all to find mediocre things they are doing.
simonl
 
Posts: 714
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:03 pm

Re: Translink Bus Routes

Postby brett_lee » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:24 pm

Yeah, it makes you wander, theres lots of little errors within the network, so many little things that could be improved to make the buses within Translink much better!
brett_lee
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:27 pm

Re: Translink Bus Routes

Postby SM247 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:10 am

simonl wrote:Actually that brings up another problem the bus routes. Why's the 209 run through the gabba when it would be a fair bit faster to stick on Logan Rd/O'Keefe St and use this portal. And 156/157 why two routes that are so similar, but need to be picked up in the city in different locations?

Is the organisation run by Homer Simpson? You don't have to think about it much at all to find mediocre things they are doing.


209 I agree should run via Buranda, with another service to connect from the Gabba to UQ Lakes.

The 156 was moved from QSBS because there is not enough room to accommodate the 150, 156 and 157 in there. The 157 is a more appropriate service to run out of there as it can be cleared faster due to it being pre-paid. People from the Warrigal Road/Runcorn are now still have access to a service to the Riverside area as most other southside corridors do. No issue with this one.
Now that this place has become a little bit more sensible, I am back in business.
User avatar
SM247
 
Posts: 2743
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 7:31 am
Location: Cavill Avenue Station
Favourite Vehicle: Citadis 302

Re: Translink Bus Routes

Postby simonl » Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:48 am

SM247 wrote:with another service to connect from the Gabba to UQ Lakes.

I don't reckon there would be enough demand for that one. The Gabba is mostly a commercial area, and anyone wanting to make such a commute has a short transfer at Mater Hill for a 109.

SM247 wrote:The 156 was moved from QSBS because there is not enough room to accommodate the 150, 156 and 157 in there. The 157 is a more appropriate service to run out of there as it can be cleared faster due to it being pre-paid. People from the Warrigal Road/Runcorn are now still have access to a service to the Riverside area as most other southside corridors do. No issue with this one.

I don't agree with that kind of thinking. Now that most of the rockets are pre paid, it's not clear why the 156 didn't go along for that ride. I think it should be rationalised to give 157/156 users a better frequency.

Perhaps part of the reason for the 157 is to change into/from an express service to/from Griffith Uni's Nathan campus which go into QSBS. But there's no obvious reason why these services can't use Elizabeth St inbound and Adelaide St outbound.
simonl
 
Posts: 714
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:03 pm

Re: Translink Bus Routes

Postby SM247 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:59 am

simonl wrote:I don't agree with that kind of thinking. Now that most of the rockets are pre paid, it's not clear why the 156 didn't go along for that ride. I think it should be rationalised to give 157/156 users a better frequency.

Perhaps part of the reason for the 157 is to change into/from an express service to/from Griffith Uni's Nathan campus which go into QSBS. But there's no obvious reason why these services can't use Elizabeth St inbound and Adelaide St outbound.


The 156 services Stretton at the southern end, which has no other direct connection to the CBD. The 152 is hardly a viable alternative.

The obvious reason for the 157 using the QSBS is that it enables stop A8 to be cleared faster than if it were serviced only by 150s. 157s can be more frequent than 156s out of that stop as they are prepaid, which is important given that space down there is at a premium.

One southside area where I agree more rationalisation is required is the Mains Roads corridor.
Now that this place has become a little bit more sensible, I am back in business.
User avatar
SM247
 
Posts: 2743
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 7:31 am
Location: Cavill Avenue Station
Favourite Vehicle: Citadis 302

Re: Translink Bus Routes

Postby simonl » Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:37 pm

Or all of QSBS could be made pre-paid in peak hour, much like the Cultural Centre etc.
simonl
 
Posts: 714
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:03 pm

Re: Translink Bus Routes

Postby SM247 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:47 pm

simonl wrote:Or all of QSBS could be made pre-paid in peak hour, much like the Cultural Centre etc.


You'll get no arguments from me, it would require a few ticket machines but is certainly doable.
Now that this place has become a little bit more sensible, I am back in business.
User avatar
SM247
 
Posts: 2743
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 7:31 am
Location: Cavill Avenue Station
Favourite Vehicle: Citadis 302

Re: Translink Bus Routes

Postby Scania » Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:38 pm

Would it be worth having the 66 travel from Wollongabba to UQ Lakes?
600 posts achieved on 7/6/10 !!!
User avatar
Scania
 
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:02 am
Location: Mount Gravatt East
Favourite Vehicle: BT's 459-461

Re: Translink Bus Routes

Postby SM247 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:30 pm

Scania wrote:Would it be worth having the 66 travel from Wollongabba to UQ Lakes?


It's not ideal. The 66 is supposed to be an inner city distributor to take loadings off buses going further than the CBD fringe.
Now that this place has become a little bit more sensible, I am back in business.
User avatar
SM247
 
Posts: 2743
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 7:31 am
Location: Cavill Avenue Station
Favourite Vehicle: Citadis 302

Re: Translink Bus Routes

Postby simonl » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:11 am

If the 66 ran to UQ Lakes (instead of the 109), it would be better to skip the Gabba. It's not clear that the 66's service is required in the Gabba, but if you think it is, you could extend the 333 and/or other CC terminators there.

That would have the advantage of serving Roma St from UQ Lakes.
simonl
 
Posts: 714
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:03 pm

Re: Translink Bus Routes

Postby brett_lee » Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:22 am

SM247 wrote:
One southside area where I agree more rationalisation is required is the Mains Roads corridor.


Definatly agree with you there, some sort of busway along mains road would benefit traffic wise for buses, and with local statiosn it would surely boost public transport on the south side of Brisbane
brett_lee
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:27 pm

Re: Translink Bus Routes

Postby simonl » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:53 am

brett_lee wrote:
SM247 wrote:
One southside area where I agree more rationalisation is required is the Mains Roads corridor.


Definatly agree with you there, some sort of busway along mains road would benefit traffic wise for buses, and with local statiosn it would surely boost public transport on the south side of Brisbane

Some case for that busway, but is it a priority? The west has no sort of a busway at all, and the Ipswich Rd corridor doesn't get much benefit from the SE busway either, Eastern Busway wil only reach Corparoo in 2012. I think the Mains Rd corridor, which already gets a significant benefit from the SE busway should make do with bus priority on Mains Rd. I say upgrade to a 24 hour bus lane in both directions, southbound starting from where the third lane is added.

I'm not completely sure what you are thinking of with the rationalisation, but it's the different city stop locations which annoy me with the 156/157. At least the 129/131/133/137/141/142 all use the same route through the city.

How do the outbound buses get on to the Captain Cook Bridge anyway? Alice St ramp? It's not worth the detour to use the Ann St ramp?
simonl
 
Posts: 714
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:03 pm

Re: Translink Bus Routes

Postby triplethree » Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:09 am

brett_lee wrote:I would be very interested to read about what you guys on this forum generally think about Brisbane's Bus Services and if you were to make changes to the system (e.g. editing current routes, adding new routess and deleting routes) what you would do to improve the overall quality of services, encourage the usage of Buses in Brisbane.


My 2/- ...

Crosstown Routes. Brisbane desperately needs good cross-town routes that allow you to get to your destination without having to take a trip all the way into the city and then back out again (often at a very acute angle). And by "good" I mean "decent frequency" and "direct", not "hourly daytime-only service" and "down every back street". I once knew a guy who lived in Forest Lake and studied at Griffith Uni Nathan campus. He used to catch a 460 all the way into QSBS, then a 135/155 back out again. What a joke! What will it take for BT/TL network planners to realise that employment, education and retailing are now widely dispersed across the metropolitan area and many people never need to go into the city? Hello! It's not 1936 any more! Every time I see a map of metropolitan Brisbane, my mind's eye sees all these possible cross-town routes: e.g., Ashgrove to Toombul via Newmarket Rd and Albion; Wacol to Springwood via Inala and Compton Rd; Mt Ommaney to Garden City via Oxley and Griffith Uni Nathan Campus.

Great Circle Line. The Great Circle Line could be one of Brisbane's most important and successful routes. But the way it's operated now, it will never be. There's a topological fact about circles - they don't have ends. This means that if a bus on one circuit is held up by traffic, the lateness is carried over onto the next circuit. BT tries to mitigate this by building "recovery time" into the 598/599 timetable at selected major interchanges - but it's often not enough to catch up after heavy traffic or a major accident. The result? Chronic lateness and unreliability - as I was reminded only last week when I dropped my car off and picked my car up to be serviced two suburbs away on the GCL. And those rare instances when the GCL is actually on time, you have an annoying wait at interchanges while waiting for the recovery time to lapse. My solution? I would divide the GCL into three separate routes: Indooroopilly to Chermside, Chermside to Garden City, Garden City to Indooroopilly. That way, traffic/accidents/roadworks on one segment won't affect reliability on other segments. I'd timetable the routes so, if they're on time, there's a 5-7 minute "window" allowing passengers to change buses (and in my observations, nearly everyone gets off the bus at Indro, GC and Chermside). I'd also up the frequency to about 15 mins daytimes, and 30 mins evenings and weekends (incl. Sundays), so people might actually use the GCL "arcs" to get across town and take pressure of the citybound buses.

Route 307. What a useless little stub that is! I don't think I've ever seen more than 3 people board this bus at Toombul interchange. What I would do is through-route the 306 shortworking which terminates at Toombul onto the 307. So you'll have three routes combining to provide the 20-minute service on the Sandgate Road - the 306 from Nudgee, the 307 and the 322. Who knows, if the 307 actually went somewhere, people in Northgate and Banyo and students at ACU might actually catch it!

"Milk runs". You know what I mean - those routes that run only hourly, and only during weekday daytime, that get from A to B via every bloody back street in C, D and E and also detouring to suburbs F, G and H for good measure. These routes in the off-peak rarely have more than three grannies, two junkies and a gunzel on board. Even in peak hours, there are rarely any standees. Salient examples which spring to mind are the 361, 354, 172, 232. What would I suggest? Straighten them out, so journey times are reduced and more people might actually catch them. Or get rid of them all together, and plough the money saved into extending the "Council Cabs" programme, which provides flexible and accessible transport to the aged and the infirm.

And other things I would do to "to improve the overall quality of services, encourage the usage of Buses in Brisbane" ...

Maps. I still can't believe that there is no system map for Brisbane Transport's bus services on TransLink's website. Even for the other regions, the TL maps are simplistic schematic diagrams - a mapping method that is suited to railways, not buses. There is seldom any indication on these diagrams of which roads the buses go down - and I would have thought that such information would be crucial for people trying to figure out which bus to catch, and where the nearest bus stops are likely to be. The TT maps are just as bad - they look like they were drawn by a Kindergarten kid given a pack of similarly-coloured Crayolas. Zone boundaries are indistinct, side streets are seldom shown, scale is thrown out the window, connecting bus routes are rarely indicated (the 598/599 TT is an honourable exception). Maps are how one communicates spatial information - the "what" and "where" of things - to others. You wouldn't like a restaurant which didn't have a menu or wine list - so why would you like a PT system that doesn't communicate information about its product effectively? TL needs to look at Adelaide Metro and the State Transit Authority of NSW to see how TT and network maps are done!

Advertising and Marketing. What would Macca's, Coca-Cola and LG be without advertising? Nothing! PT's competitors (the auto manufacturers and the oil companies) advertise constantly in order to build product awareness and brand image. So why not PT? If more people were made aware of the advantages of PT using clever and appropriate marketing methods, more people might use it. I like TL's quarter-page newspaper ads advising citizens of new routes and service enhancements - but even they don't have the "OOMPH!" that might get people to look twice. They're more like public notice classified ads.

That being said, there are many things with BT and TL do well - an awesome integrated ticketing scheme that goes for hundreds of kilometres, the system of high-frequency BUZ routes, timetables at every stop, usually friendly staff, a modern and well-maintained fleet, a smartcard which despite annoying technical glitches works better for me than paper tickets. But there is still much more room for improvement.
From the conservative dark
Into the ethical life
The dense commuters come
--"September 1, 1939", W.H. Auden
User avatar
triplethree
 
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:48 pm
Location: T main course with a dollop of V, a sprinkling of A and a drop of C
Favourite Vehicle: Sydney R class tram

PreviousNext

Return to Discussion - Brisbane / QLD

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests