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Centre Entrance Buses?

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Centre Entrance Buses?

Postby Denv12 » Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:29 am

D1010036c - Copy (745 x 545).jpg
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It seems that some buses were built with a centre entrance when there wasnt any real need for them. Have a look at the photos below.Its an ex Melbourne TAA bus. It still has its centre entrance.Yet,Jack Sellick(my late father)had this vehicle converted to front entrance because there was room for a front entrance.This bus still retained its centre entrance.

When a bus had a reasonable front overhang to start with,why would a bus company opt for a centre entrance? I dont see the advantage.There is one bonus,its the seats opposite the drivers seat. Where they any real reasons?

In one of the Railmac publications,"N.S.W Private Buses", there is a photo on page35,the lower photo.Its a Superior bodied Bedford VAM70 owned then by Taylor of Bonalbo.That bus has a centre entrance despite its decent front overhang.

I'm sure there are other buses,maybe even coaches with the centre entrance.How many are there?

Thank you to everyone who participated in this topic.
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Re: Centre Entrance Buses?

Postby Lt. Commander Data » Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:52 pm

The enterance on a Mtisubishi Rosa/Toyota Coaster is further back than normal. Not that you can really call them buses...
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Re: Centre Entrance Buses?

Postby Fleet Lists » Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:08 pm

What is your definition of 'Normal"?
Once a upon a time that was the usual position on all buses with the door behind the front wheels and was called Forward Control such as http://www.busaustralia.com/gallery/dis ... ?pos=-6458 or Normal Control where the engine was under the bonnet at the front such as http://www.busaustralia.com/gallery/dis ... ?pos=-6658 , until the underfloor or rear engined buses arrived with the door in front of the front wheels.
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Re: Centre Entrance Buses?

Postby Bedford-29 » Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:18 pm

There was this centre entrance Leyland TD5 that belong to Rovers Motors is this what mean.Picture from the Ken Magor collection
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Re: Centre Entrance Buses?

Postby Lt. Commander Data » Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:15 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:What is your definition of 'Normal"?
Once a upon a time that was the usual position on all buses with the door behind the front wheels and was called Forward Control such as http://www.busaustralia.com/gallery/dis ... ?pos=-6458 or Normal Control where the engine was under the bonnet at the front such as http://www.busaustralia.com/gallery/dis ... ?pos=-6658 , until the underfloor or rear engined buses arrived with the door in front of the front wheels.


My definition of "normal" is a door infront of the front wheel (like seen on Volgren CR224Ls, Custom CB80s, etc). Rosas/Coasters have it behind the front wheel, not quite in the middle, but closer than most modern buses that I've seen.
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Re: Centre Entrance Buses?

Postby Fleet Lists » Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:28 pm

So instead of normal a better term would be modern.
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Re: Centre Entrance Buses?

Postby Denv12 » Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:20 am

Bedford-29 wrote:There was this centre entrance Leyland TD5 that belong to Rovers Motors is this what mean.Picture from the Ken Magor collection


Thanks Bedford-29. What a great photo.I've never seen any double decker like that. It looks safer than a rear entrance double decker.There must have been some advantages with this layout.
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Re: Centre Entrance Buses?

Postby Bus Suggestions » Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:53 pm

Lt. Commander Data wrote:The enterance on a Mtisubishi Rosa/Toyota Coaster is further back than normal. Not that you can really call them buses...

What do you mean? They're classified as minibuses and they are very small as well. The engine, however is a bit large. That is why the doors are a bit to the centre of the vehicle
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Re: Centre Entrance Buses?

Postby Lt. Commander Data » Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:14 pm

Bus Suggestions wrote:
Lt. Commander Data wrote:The enterance on a Mtisubishi Rosa/Toyota Coaster is further back than normal. Not that you can really call them buses...

What do you mean? They're classified as minibuses and they are very small as well. The engine, however is a bit large. That is why the doors are a bit to the centre of the vehicle


A minibus is still a bus. Although they could also be classified as vans :twisted: . What I meant was what I said: the door on a Coaster/Rosa is further back than in most buses. Pretty self-explanatory. If you've ever been on one, or been stuck behind one on a single lane road, you would know the engine is not big, they are quite underpowered. The exception is a newer Rosa Deulux, which are decently powered (but still a tad underpowered). The doors are further back because of the layout of the seats - there is a seat next to the driver, like in a car.

Back on topic - in some places (namely Europe) wher there are 100% low-floor buses (such as the Citaro), they are all-enterance (I.e front, centre and back). I'm not aware of anywhere in Aus that does this (speaking from a limited experience), but it could be seen as a centre enterance (although not to the same extent as some of the photos shown above).

Does anyone know the reason for the centre enterance on the Leyland TD5 (as shown above by Bedford-29)?
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Re: Centre Entrance Buses?

Postby Bus Suggestions » Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:44 pm

What I mean is the RADIATOR pretty much sits next to the driver's seat, covered by a hinged insulated cover. This means that there would need to be a BIG step over if a door would be placed there
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Re: Centre Entrance Buses?

Postby Fleet Lists » Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:47 pm

I have no idea what that refers to.
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Re: Centre Entrance Buses?

Postby Fleet Lists » Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:03 pm

Lt. Commander Data wrote:
Does anyone know the reason for the centre enterance on the Leyland TD5 (as shown above by Bedford-29)?

It was one of some imported by Rover Motors - so there were probably more of them wherever it was they were imported from.
see http://www.rovercoaches.com.au/site/Our-History

1930

The coalfields boom and buses packed full of miners rattle to the sound of miners whistles across the region. Nowadays, these mines are ghosts of the past with the only reminder being old poppet heads and chimneys strewn across the countryside. Rover Motors grows to become the largest and most progressive bus company in the state and pioneers the introduction of the first centre-door Double Decker Buses into Australia.
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Re: Centre Entrance Buses?

Postby Lt. Commander Data » Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:25 pm

Bus Suggestions wrote:What I mean is the RADIATOR pretty much sits next to the driver's seat, covered by a hinged insulated cover. This means that there would need to be a BIG step over if a door would be placed there


Great, but the point still remains that the door is further back than on a CB80/Optimus/VST/etc.
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Re: Centre Entrance Buses?

Postby Bedford-29 » Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:19 pm

Here is two Blackpool Corporation Transport centre entrance Leyland PD2s 277 and 293.Picture from fyldebus.blogspot
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Re: Centre Entrance Buses?

Postby boronia » Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:24 pm

Bus Suggestions wrote:What I mean is the RADIATOR pretty much sits next to the driver's seat, covered by a hinged insulated cover. This means that there would need to be a BIG step over if a door would be placed there

Not just the radiator, but the engine and gearbox as well. The Coaster uses the same equipment as a Land Cruiser. The door is set back so that a lower flat floor can be used for the main saloon. IIRC the Coaster has a driver's and front passenger seat, then a 1+2 layout over the rear of the "hump". It would be impractical for passengers to enter the bus from a front mounted door
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Re: Centre Entrance Buses?

Postby boronia » Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:27 pm

Denv12 wrote:
Bedford-29 wrote:There was this centre entrance Leyland TD5 that belong to Rovers Motors is this what mean.Picture from the Ken Magor collection


Thanks Bedford-29. What a great photo.I've never seen any double decker like that. It looks safer than a rear entrance double decker.There must have been some advantages with this layout.

Probably just a bit more comfort, Having a closable door would keep the cold out in winter.
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Re: Centre Entrance Buses?

Postby boronia » Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:33 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:
Lt. Commander Data wrote:
Does anyone know the reason for the centre enterance on the Leyland TD5 (as shown above by Bedford-29)?

It was one of some imported by Rover Motors - so there were probably more of them wherever it was they were imported from.
see http://www.rovercoaches.com.au/site/Our-History

1930

The coalfields boom and buses packed full of miners rattle to the sound of miners whistles across the region. Nowadays, these mines are ghosts of the past with the only reminder being old poppet heads and chimneys strewn across the countryside. Rover Motors grows to become the largest and most progressive bus company in the state and pioneers the introduction of the first centre-door Double Decker Buses into Australia.


I'm pretty sure this was a Waddington/Comeng body. I don't think "introduction" should be interpreted as "importation".

I can't find my Double Deck Bus in Australia book, but I think only one or two were built this way.
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Re: Centre Entrance Buses?

Postby Denv12 » Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:58 am

Bedford-29 wrote:Here is two Blackpool Corporation Transport centre entrance Leyland PD2s 277 and 293.Picture from fyldebus.blogspot


There must have been advantages to the centre entrance on those buses.It looks safer compared to the rear entrance buses.
If you look at the Sydney Leyland Atlanteans they had a centre exit and a front entrance with a centre stairs.They would have proved safer than the earlier double deckers with rear entrances.
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Re: Centre Entrance Buses?

Postby Newcastle Flyer » Sat Aug 06, 2016 11:12 am

Lt. Commander Data wrote:My definition of "normal" is a door infront of the front wheel

Why wouldn't you call buses with front doors behind the front wheels normal?
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Re: Centre Entrance Buses?

Postby Lt. Commander Data » Sat Aug 06, 2016 11:15 am

Newcastle Flyer wrote:
Lt. Commander Data wrote:My definition of "normal" is a door infront of the front wheel

Why wouldn't you call buses with front doors behind the front wheels normal?


Because I see more buses with their doors in front of the wheel. As mentioned, Coasters and Rosas (and more) have their door behind the wheel.
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Re: Centre Entrance Buses?

Postby boronia » Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:44 pm

Forward entrance buses have become the "standard" since underfloor and rear engine chassis have dominated the market. There have been some front engined buses with forward doors, but they have restricted access to the saloon, making them unsuitable for heavy route work.

A centre entrance bus reduces its overall length, making it suitable for use in confined spaces. When talking about Coasters and Rosas, a few years ago the Hino RB45 rainbow was quite popular; this was rear engined, but still has a centre entrance - this was purely to constrain the length, even if the seating capacity was restricted.

Remember too that the forward entrance facilitates the collection of fares by the driver, something that is not normally a requirement in mini-buses.
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Re: Centre Entrance Buses?

Postby Red and Cream » Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:04 am

Lt. Commander Data wrote:
Does anyone know the reason for the centre enterance on the Leyland TD5 (as shown above by Bedford-29)?

It was one of some imported by Rover Motors - so there were probably more of them wherever it was they were imported from.
see http://www.rovercoaches.com.au/site/Our-History

1930

The coalfields boom and buses packed full of miners rattle to the sound of miners whistles across the region. Nowadays, these mines are ghosts of the past with the only reminder being old poppet heads and chimneys strewn across the countryside. Rover Motors grows to become the largest and most progressive bus company in the state and pioneers the introduction of the first centre-door Double Decker Buses into Australia.
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure this was a Waddington/Comeng body. I don't think "introduction" should be interpreted as "importation".

I can't find my Double Deck Bus in Australia book, but I think only one or two were built this way.[/quote]


The centre entrance Leyland TD5 has a Syd Wood body and was an experimental body for Rover Motors , i believe it was was one of the last TD5'S to be bodied in NSW. Originally registered as MO 699 with Rover it later became MO 493 and on sale to Linsley it gained a metropolitan redgo of m/o 215 and with a later sale to Chapman it gained it final redgo of m/o 951 before being scrapped in 1960 after spending its entire life in the Newcastle and Cessnock area.
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Re: Centre Entrance Buses?

Postby Bedford-29 » Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:00 am

Another picture of Rover Motors 15 leading a parade of buses down Vincent St Cessnock and behind 15 is one of the AEC Qs.Picture from the Ken Magor collection
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Re: Centre Entrance Buses?

Postby Centralian » Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:14 pm

I can't put a name to the operator, but in the early '80's these two were regular features in Lismore parked during the day
and then taking the school kids back in the afternoon. They look like Bedford Vams with Superior body and what could best
be described as a centre door only. In the one further away you can see the seating forward of the axle.
Nearest one has rego MO 8229.

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Re: Centre Entrance Buses?

Postby boronia » Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:56 pm

These are front engined buses, so it would be feasible to have (at least) a single seat on the near side opposite the driver and possibly even dual seats over the axles. THis is the same principle used in Coasters.
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