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CMCMANUS SUPPLIED PHOTOS Part 73

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CMCMANUS SUPPLIED PHOTOS Part 73

Postby leyland4ever » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:55 pm

705  Choat  Bedford SB3-300  7507  1-77.jpg
705 Choat Bedford Sb3-300 75047 1-77
613  Hackney South Depot  1969.jpg
613 Hackney South Depot 1969
607  973 Leyland  Birkenhead Bridge  trolleybus gantry  1962 MTT.jpg
607 973 Leyland Birkenhead Bridge trolleybus gantry 1962 MTT
606  802  Hackney Nth  OMO conversion  1960 MTT.jpg
606 802 Hackney Nth OMO conversion 1960 MTT
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Re: CMCMANUS SUPPLIED PHOTOS Part 73

Postby Tim Williams » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:11 am

Hi Trevor, This wonderful collection just keeps coming and it is really appreciated.
Just commenting on the last photo of MTT Worldmaster 802 - I presume it is or has been prepared for the first of the one man (now person!) operations for the MTT, that is the linked cross town routes 16 - City to Glen Osmond and 32 City Novar Gardens. Interestingly City to Glen Osmond now 861 is my local route but it is no longer linked to any other route.

Thanks again, this just seems so far in the past!!
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Re: CMCMANUS SUPPLIED PHOTOS Part 73

Postby leyland4ever » Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:19 pm

Yes, Tim

That is right.

The date on the caption, 1960, which I copied direct from the photo, I would query however.

The Glen Osmond - Novar Gardens one man route did not commence until May 1968.

This was later than the MTT planned, due to not being able to gain co-operation from the Union. (Remember, it wasn't until August 1957 that the Union agreed to operating the three-door buses as one man units under any conditions!)

The most likely date that it was intended to commence would be October 1965. This was the date when the south western suburbs routes to (then) Seacombe Gardens and Dover Gardens, operated by Campbells and Bridglands, were re-organised to operate on a limited stop basis from Victoria Square via Anzac Highway, then into Marion Road.

Previously, they had followed the (current) 168 route via Richmond Road (then West Beach Road), Grove and Galway Aves to Marion Road. and then along Marion Road.

There was nothing along Mooringe Ave at this time.

From October 1965. the MTT arranged with Morphetts (the Churchill Road operator, not the Port-Glenelg one) to commence a new service via Richmond Rd, Grove, Galway, Marion, Mooringe Ave, initially to North Plympton (Streeters Road, I think), extended a few months later into Novar Gardens, terminating in Burrupa Road (I think), where the terminus remained until extended to Glenelg in the early 1980s).

The MTT eventually took this over themselves from May 1968, and linked it through to their existing Glen Osmond service.

The converted buses (I'm not sure how many of the 801-816 group were done prior to October 1965), were placed into storage. 815 and 816 were not done until after May 1968 - 801-814 all appeared straight away, with 815 and 816 following a few weeks later.

Now, IF the caption on the photos is right and at least some were converted in 1960, this throws an interesting light on what the MTT intended.

I've always had a hunch (and that's all it is - I've never been able to find any corroborating evidence to prove or disprove it), that the MTT had planned to convert all the Worldmasters to OMO, and convert the whole system to OMO much earlier than 1969-72, as eventually happened. Why else would they have started with 801-816? (older readers will be familiar with the MTTs obsession with keeping vehicles in consecutive number blocks etc etc!)

The failure to reach agreement with the Union until 1968 put paid to this proposal, as by then the Worldmaster were 10-11 years old, and it would have been uneconomic to convert them all as 801-816 had been, just for another 4-5 years - in those days the MTT regarded 15 years as the optimum economic life of a bus.

Anyone have any ideas on this theory?

802, incidentally, was fitted with a ZF 2HP gearbox in about 1969, to test that gearbox out for the forthcoming order of Swifts.
It was an impressive performer with this gearbox. In those days, if a driver of a Swift saw a Leyland stopped at the lights ahead, he would get into the next lane, and then easily overtake a standard Leyland with the pneumocycle gearbox. It paid to check the number of the Leyland - if it was 802 after the ZF box was fitted, the Swift driver would be left very embarrassed, as 802 would power away from the Swift with ease!

The Glen Osmond route has an interesting history with one-man experiments. Back in 1953, it was, along with the Findon route, the first to be operated by diesel buses permanently replacing trams. One of the recommendations of the Parliamentary Enquiry into the MTT in the early 1950s, was that one-man operation should be extended wherever possible.

As both the Glen Osmond and Findon routes were relativel lightly loaded, they were chosen for a one-man expirement.

Using AEC Regal 111 front engined buses (the newest buses then operated), the routes were one-man operated, excpet in peak hours, when a condcutor was carried.

The tickets and cash tray were mounted on top of the engine to the driver's left, and the driver had to twist around to take the passengers' money, and issue a ticket and change - the door was behind the front axle. At that time, there were no time based tickets, and each passenger had to pay a cash fare and be issued with a ticket, appropriately punched with the boarding section. We still had pound shillings and pence then, and there was a wide range of fares, including things like one penny halfpenny and so on. So the drivers really earned their keep.

Later, the Kingswood, Richmond and Oldfield/Morialta routes (which at that time terminated in Victoria Square) were operated in this way.

When the Regal 111s were withdrawn in 1959/60, three door buses took over, and all these routes were operated as other routes had been for some time - with a condcutor between 7.00 am and 7.00 pm weekdays, and Saturday mornings, and one-man (using three-door buses) at all other times.

It's probably appropriate to pass on thanks to C McManus for supplying these photos - I have found them fascinating - rather like a "This is your Life" - although I hasten to add, even I don't go back as fas as the earlier of these photos!

There are about 30 more on the first disc.

There are not as many photos on discs 2 and 3, and I'm not sure I'm going to be able to get them up - they are rather small photos in a format I'm not familiar with (JIF or something similar?) "Shrinkpictures" won't accept them at all, but they really need enlarging, rather than shrinking!

Disc 2 has some interesting photos of Worthley's buses, which used to operated in the Glenelg area, taken in the 1950s and 60s, and also some Sunbeam trolleybuses taken in the last few years of the system. There are some other private buses as well.

Cheers for now,

Trevor
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Re: CMCMANUS SUPPLIED PHOTOS Part 73

Postby system improver » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:59 am

leyland4ever wrote:...There are not as many photos on discs 2 and 3, and I'm not sure I'm going to be able to get them up - they are rather small photos in a format I'm not familiar with (JIF or something similar?) "Shrinkpictures" won't accept them at all, but they really need enlarging, rather than shrinking!

Disc 2 has some interesting photos of Worthley's buses, which used to operated in the Glenelg area, taken in the 1950s and 60s, and also some Sunbeam trolleybuses taken in the last few years of the system. There are some other private buses as well...



Trevor, have you tried opening the pictures with Paint and then saving as Jpeg?
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Re: CMCMANUS SUPPLIED PHOTOS Part 73

Postby paulgersche » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:33 pm

leyland4ever wrote:
The converted buses (I'm not sure how many of the 801-816 group were done prior to October 1965), were placed into storage. 815 and 816 were not done until after May 1968 - 801-814 all appeared straight away, with 815 and 816 following a few weeks later.

Now, IF the caption on the photos is right and at least some were converted in 1960, this throws an interesting light on what the MTT intended.

I've always had a hunch (and that's all it is - I've never been able to find any corroborating evidence to prove or disprove it), that the MTT had planned to convert all the Worldmasters to OMO, and convert the whole system to OMO much earlier than 1969-72, as eventually happened. Why else would they have started with 801-816? (older readers will be familiar with the MTTs obsession with keeping vehicles in consecutive number blocks etc etc!)



I also noticed the date on this pic, but also the date on pic 613 of the Hackney South workshop. My issue with the date is that it says 1969, but the second bus from the right (next to AEC Regal IV 721), is a trolley bus!

A personal observation - I hated when one of the OMO Worldmasters was let loose onto the Payneham Road services (9/9A/9B/9C/17). This usually happened a few years after the change to OMO on these services, and probably when most services had also been changed over. I assume that they would have possibly only been put out because of shortages. The addition of the push exit, combined with the steep steps and narrow doors made alighting very difficult especially if you were carrying something, even for a young (at the time) whippersnapper like myself!

And an additional question - can anyone shed some light as to why was there such a large time gap between their initial conversion and the final removal of the rear doors? If the plan was to convert all Leylands to OMO, why were these only "half done"? Cost?

Fascinating stuff! Thanks all!

Regards,
Paul.
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Re: CMCMANUS SUPPLIED PHOTOS Part 73

Postby leyland4ever » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:47 pm

Sunbeam trolleybus  heading for Burnside  c 1959-63.jpg
Sunbeam trolleybus heading for Burnside c1959-63
Trevor, have you tried opening the pictures with Paint and then saving as Jpeg?


Thanks, systemimprover - No I hadn't, but thanks to your suggestion, I have done so now!

This is a sneak preview of a picture from Disc 2 - unfortunately, most of the photos are not captioned, so we may have to run them as a kind of "Guess where this picture is taken?" exercise.

I was hoping someone would give me a heads-up, but I did not imagine that the answer would come so quickly, nor that it would be so simple!

Many Thanks,

Trevor
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Re: CMCMANUS SUPPLIED PHOTOS Part 73

Postby Denv12 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:41 am

Here's a few Choats photos.
Attachments
p %28731 x 679%29.jpg
p %28731 x 679%29.jpg (90.53 KiB) Viewed 5233 times
rbs1 001 (380 x 276).jpg
Murray Bridge depot.Before it went to Choats.
rbs1 001 (380 x 276).jpg (19.54 KiB) Viewed 5400 times
D1000001 (520 x 307).jpg
On its way to a rebuild1
D1000001 (520 x 307).jpg (36.54 KiB) Viewed 5400 times
bus1a (410 x 358).jpg
On its way to a rebuild2.
bus1a (410 x 358).jpg (38.17 KiB) Viewed 5400 times
bus2.jpg
After the rebuild.
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