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Harris Park Transport - from the Bruce Tilley collection

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Harris Park Transport - from the Bruce Tilley collection

Postby DENAIR » Thu May 12, 2011 7:42 pm

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cheers and enjoy petekane 8)

again i'll leave it to others for the id info
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Re: Harris Park Transport - from the Bruce Tilley collection

Postby Mr Bean » Fri May 13, 2011 1:34 am

Wow! Nice photos. While I can't relate much to these buses as they were before my time, I can relate to the locations as it's the area I grew up in. However I can only identify some of them. Anyone else able to fill in the blanks?

1)
2) Ada St Harris Park, facing east
3) Kendall St Harris Park, facing west
4) Depot at Harris Park
5) Depot at Harris Park
6) Beecroft Rd, Epping stn
7)
8) Church St just before Victoria Rd Parramatta, facing North.
Is it the truth, or did you hear it from the truth engineer?

http://www.forsyth.id.au/gallery/bus
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Re: Harris Park Transport - from the Bruce Tilley collection

Postby kitkat271 » Fri May 13, 2011 3:39 pm

I'll echo Mr Bean's sentiments ... wow great photos. Things certainly look different back in the day!
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Re: Harris Park Transport - from the Bruce Tilley collection

Postby Bedford-29 » Fri May 13, 2011 3:53 pm

Picture 7 is MO-491 a Albion Victor or a Albion Valkyrie I didn`t think Harris pk had Leyland and Albion buses I thought they were mainly a Bedford fleet.
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Re: Harris Park Transport - from the Bruce Tilley collection

Postby Fleet Lists » Fri May 13, 2011 4:26 pm

I dont have details of m/o 491 specifically but, while they were mainly a Bedford fleet in the earlier days, they always had a few Leylands, Albions and AEC's around with the odd Ford as shown in one the photos and of course in later years they also operated a numebr of Volvo's and Hino's as well as the odd Isuzu.

m/o 5144 in one of the other photos is a Layland Leopard/CVI
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Re: Harris Park Transport - from the Bruce Tilley collection

Postby Dave Wilson » Fri May 13, 2011 4:56 pm

M/0 491 appears to have a Hughes Whetton and Riley body (I think). Last shot is leaving Parramatta pretty well opposite where the Riverside Theatres are now. The blue colour scheme was quite attractive in my view especially on 4723.V I King are you there?
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Re: Harris Park Transport - from the Bruce Tilley collection

Postby On Air » Mon May 16, 2011 10:39 am

Wow, remember all these buses from childhood shopping trips to Parramatta. Is someone going to photoshop big alloy bull bars onto each bus?

Shot No.1 looks like Adderton Rd Telopea. Carlingford line on the left with the road swinging to the left to cross the line in the background.
Last edited by On Air on Wed May 18, 2011 7:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
On 16 March 1870, bushranger Harry Power and Ned Kelly stuck up and robbed Mr M'Bean! Out of time, Bean?
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Re: Harris Park Transport - from the Bruce Tilley collection

Postby White Super Power » Mon May 16, 2011 5:25 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:I dont have details of m/o 491 specifically but, while they were mainly a Bedford fleet in the earlier days, they always had a few Leylands, Albions and AEC's around with the odd Ford as shown in one the photos and of course in later years they also operated a numebr of Volvo's and Hino's as well as the odd Isuzu.

m/o 5144 in one of the other photos is a Layland Leopard/CVI



The Ford R226s would come from the take over of Nicholsons
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Re: Harris Park Transport - from the Bruce Tilley collection

Postby VIKing » Mon May 16, 2011 9:50 pm

In the early 1970s Harris Park had two Albion Victor FT39's with 1957 model Hughes Whetton and Riley bodies - 447 and 491. Despite newer buses in the fleet the fleet these 2 buses used to peform the Saturday afternoon services at leats every weekend. The FT39 was fitted with a noisy, reliable and economical front mounted 4 cylinder diesel with manual gearbox. The Ford, m/o 228 was one of three Ford R226 / CC vehicles built new in 1974 for Harris Park. Only 228 was placed in service, one of the others was sold without registration to Dural Busways and to Qld. Harris P:ark did acquire some Fords with the acquisition of Nicholson Bros, they also purchased second hand from Metro West.
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Re: Harris Park Transport - from the Bruce Tilley collection

Postby On Air » Tue May 17, 2011 8:40 pm

VIKing wrote:In the early 1970s Harris Park had two Albion Victor FT39's with 1957 model Hughes Whetton and Riley bodies - 447 and 491. Despite newer buses in the fleet the fleet these 2 buses used to peform the Saturday afternoon services at leats every weekend. The FT39 was fitted with a noisy, reliable and economical front mounted 4 cylinder diesel with manual gearbox. The Ford, m/o 228 was one of three Ford R226 / CC vehicles built new in 1974 for Harris Park. Only 228 was placed in service, one of the others was sold without registration to Dural Busways and to Qld. Harris P:ark did acquire some Fords with the acquisition of Nicholson Bros, they also purchased second hand from Metro West.


Archie Moore was notorious for running desperately outdated and worn out old bangers well beyond their trashing date, on front line peak services whilst new buses languished in his depots unregistered. Rumour has it that when Harris Park handed back their route work contracts there were still near new Bedford underfloors sitting unused at one of his depots?
On 16 March 1870, bushranger Harry Power and Ned Kelly stuck up and robbed Mr M'Bean! Out of time, Bean?
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Re: Harris Park Transport - from the Bruce Tilley collection

Postby Mr Bean » Thu May 19, 2011 12:44 am

On Air wrote:Shot No.1 looks like Adderton Rd Telopea. Carlingford line on the left with the road swinging to the left to cross the line in the background.

I suspect you are right. CaptainCH was probably driving some service or other through Feral Valley just over the other side of the station.

On Air wrote:Archie Moore was notorious for running desperately outdated and worn out old bangers well beyond their trashing date, on front line peak services whilst new buses languished in his depots unregistered. Rumour has it that when Harris Park handed back their route work contracts there were still near new Bedford underfloors sitting unused at one of his depots?

I believe they purchase new buses ahead of requirements so they could store them and claim their depreciation in value as a tax deduction. One wonders about the legality or effectiveness of this given no other bus companies appeared to do this.
Is it the truth, or did you hear it from the truth engineer?

http://www.forsyth.id.au/gallery/bus
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Re: Harris Park Transport - from the Bruce Tilley collection

Postby Simes » Thu May 19, 2011 1:30 am

Mr Bean wrote:
On Air wrote:Archie Moore was notorious for running desperately outdated and worn out old bangers well beyond their trashing date, on front line peak services whilst new buses languished in his depots unregistered. Rumour has it that when Harris Park handed back their route work contracts there were still near new Bedford underfloors sitting unused at one of his depots?

I believe they purchase new buses ahead of requirements so they could store them and claim their depreciation in value as a tax deduction. One wonders about the legality or effectiveness of this given no other bus companies appeared to do this.

Back in the day the tax office had many tables for business to claim depreciation on their assets, from memory it was about 10 years for a bus? With a set rate per year, or in some cases a greater percent the newer the asset was. So quite legitimate, the vehicle didn't necessarily have to perform work. (hence why some stayed in sheds) It wouldn't surprise me if they had a handful built sat em in a shed, then when nearly depreciated, put them on the road .
Then about 10 years ago, the tax office decided to manage it themselves, no more set scales
Possibly that maybe why HPT stopped doing it? (those cc510s were the last ones to be in sheds weren't they?)

I'd argue that given their time in the industry, they were in a position to do this moreso than other operators of the day, plus I believe they had a fairly handsome property portfolio
http://19302413.blogspot.com/

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Re: Harris Park Transport - from the Bruce Tilley collection

Postby Ben O » Thu May 19, 2011 10:10 am

Mr Bean wrote:I believe they purchase new buses ahead of requirements so they could store them and claim their depreciation in value as a tax deduction. One wonders about the legality or effectiveness of this given no other bus companies appeared to do this.


On the contrary, one would argue that they would not have done so unless it was profitable/

Many operators have done similar things, from registering vehicles but not using them for their first rego period, to taking new vehicles to SA to save on stamp duty.
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Re: Harris Park Transport - from the Bruce Tilley collection

Postby On Air » Thu May 19, 2011 12:45 pm

That SA thing reminds On Air of the time many trucking companies in NSW ran trailers that were registered in SA as there was no weight tax or stamp duty on trailers, just the tractor?
On 16 March 1870, bushranger Harry Power and Ned Kelly stuck up and robbed Mr M'Bean! Out of time, Bean?
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Re: Harris Park Transport - from the Bruce Tilley collection

Postby kitkat271 » Thu May 19, 2011 12:57 pm

Simes wrote:I'd argue that given their time in the industry, they were in a position to do this moreso than other operators of the day, plus I believe they had a fairly handsome property portfolio


I would agree with Simes - buying buses (a capital investment) with depreciation benefits (operating revenue loss) could offset some of the capital gains tax issues they would have with any/all of their property. Whatever the real reason it would've been quite profitable.
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Re: Harris Park Transport - from the Bruce Tilley collection

Postby VIKing » Thu May 19, 2011 5:37 pm

A number of the times when large numbers of vehicles were purchased in a batch, but not necessarily used immediatley were at times in the economic cycle when the Governament introduced an investment allowance to stimulate equipment purchases. This was, at least once, in conjunction with a double depreciation benefit. Say you purchased a bus worth $100,000, the depreciation rate was 10%, the amount you could normally write off in year 1 as an expense was $10,000. However with double depreciation and a 40% investment allowance (this combination applied in the late 1970s), the expense you could write off in year 1 after purchase was huge. So, for nothing more than purchasing equipment you could convert a profit (of which 30 % or more was lost, being paid in company tax) into a loss with no tax payable - in return for an asset which could generate income. If you look back at the Woronora Bus Company fleet, in the midst of all the Leylands purchased, there were 2 new Bedford / Smithfields. Only one reason - the investment allowance that came with them. After the required period of ownership to retain the tax benefit, the 2 Bedfords were sold. So Harris Park were not the only company to take advantage of tax benefits.

The SA trailer registration issues mentioned was really a sorry indictment on the narrow minded NSW Government. The attraction to register a trailer in SA in the ealy 1990s' was something like (for a 2 axle trailer) $250 in SA, $1410 in NSW. It was only when the NRTC (now NTC) pushed for standardised charges - and in fact when NSW would not capitulate the Federal Government cut off funding - that charges were eventually standardised. A 2 axle trailer now costs $816 per year where-ever you register it.
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Re: Harris Park Transport - from the Bruce Tilley collection

Postby Mr Bean » Thu May 19, 2011 11:16 pm

Yes ok I assumed it was profitable for them but I just wondered why very few bus companies did this. For example, why didn't we see Westbus, Glenorie, Baxters or even UTA buying buses 10 years ahead of requirements.
Is it the truth, or did you hear it from the truth engineer?

http://www.forsyth.id.au/gallery/bus
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Re: Harris Park Transport - from the Bruce Tilley collection

Postby On Air » Fri May 20, 2011 9:29 am

Mr Bean wrote:Yes ok I assumed it was profitable for them but I just wondered why very few bus companies did this. For example, why didn't we see Westbus, Glenorie, Baxters or even UTA buying buses 10 years ahead of requirements.


On this scenario we could accept STA purchasing 50 3 axle DD buses, storing them, only to introduce them to routes that have had all the non decker friendly roadside garbage removed.
On 16 March 1870, bushranger Harry Power and Ned Kelly stuck up and robbed Mr M'Bean! Out of time, Bean?
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Re: Harris Park Transport - from the Bruce Tilley collection

Postby Simes » Sun May 22, 2011 1:52 pm

Mr Bean wrote:Yes ok I assumed it was profitable for them but I just wondered why very few bus companies did this. For example, why didn't we see Westbus, Glenorie, Baxters or even UTA buying buses 10 years ahead of requirements.

For the UTA, that'd be a political football
For the others - you would need to have places to store the vehicles, it seems the Moores had a few farm sheds available
http://19302413.blogspot.com/

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Re: Harris Park Transport - from the Bruce Tilley collection

Postby allaninbrisbane » Sun May 14, 2017 5:17 pm

I'm a new user going through old posts.
Are you able to tell me when Harris Park Transport changed their livery colours from the blue/white to the predominantly cream.
I am modelling the area these buses travelled in 1965.
Thanks
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