Road v Rail...is this the reason....???

Ribble · Post by **Ribble** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:29 am

This is ....just a 'thought' .....an 'idea' ....maybe a reason....???...its a bit of a 'generalisation'.....

It seemed to me that "Governments" in NZ the past 50 plus years have 'favoured' building roads instead of railways. Without being "political" the present National Election Campaign talks about SPENDING ALREADY "Billions of Dollars on new railways" building more roads and infrastructure - but Im not sure where the "..new railways.." are being built.

However It seems to me that there is an underlaying 'reason' why building roads is "better for Governments" than building railways. They get more income from roads than railways.

If they build a railway, they pay for the construction of the line and infrastructure; the new trains / rolling stock. They continue to pay for them in their upkeep or replacement, repairs over years and updating the operating equipment and all the operating costs such as fuel and repairs. If the railway 'stops' for some reason like a derailment etc.... then the 'fault' is with the Government / Operator for failing to provide the service. The "Income" is basically the passenger tickets sold or freight revenue collected, which is all and mostly fixed and a limited income . Locos for exaple dont pay a "Rego" to run on the lines do they....?

If they build a road / system they pay for the construction of the road and infrastructure and they continue to pay for repairs and updating the equipment eg Signs etc....over years. However, they do not need to pay for the purchase of the vehicles running on them or their upkeep or replacement or their running costs. If a road vehicle fails, its the fault and cost of the owner......etc. The vehicle owners also pay the Government in many ways in the form of assorted taxes...Rego, WoF, Fuel Tax, spares, cosmetics etc etc ....a huge income.

It seems that overall, "Government" gets a much better and increasing 'income' from road building than railway building; that "blame" for failures can be levelled at them if the Railway fails but not if a road system fails, mainly due to the vehicle failures.....and often the solution to a raod failure doesnt rest all the time with the Government.

Take the closure of the Manawatu Gorge....yes its a major problem, but its been around for decades and what in reality has actually been done to FIX IT for good...???? Short term solutions; the 'motorist' wears the diversions and the additional costs associated with them.

I have often wondered WHY is it that the NIMT has never been fully electrified Auckland - Wellington and double tracked throughout - over a period of time. I remember a time when it was seriously suggested that the Hamilton - PN electric scheme be dismantled as it was a 'one off'.....

Certainly Hamilton - Auckland "should" have had a full Passenger service decades ago, but in reality, before that had to happen, new Stations needed to be built and new Trains ordered etc.....and in the end an Expressway is cheaper and its building can easily be 'spread over' many decades for all sorts of reasons that 'motorists' will put up with.

I heard on National Radio today (24 November) that the Hamilton - Auckland passenger service plans have been cancelled (again) as its too expensive at $2 Million a year to support against projected income....and NO trains need to be bought as Silver ferns were to be used (45year old equipment not new electrics) ......but ongoing and new spending on the Waikato Expressway is to be in the Billions.....

How many years IS it since the Southern Motorway was started in Auckland to connect to Hamilton and WHEN will it be completed into Hamilton....???? Maybe over 60 years will pass before we see a 4-lane Motorway / Expressway all the way between Auckland CBD - Hamilton....??? What guesstimate can we have for the same Auckland - Wellington etc.....???

In reality.....has Road Transport become the "norm" for NZ....and also has "Private" vehicles also become a priority over "Public Transport".....??

All just a thought and discussion.......

Rclasstramcar · Post by **Rclasstramcar** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:38 am

Ribble wrote:They get more income from roads than railways.

They get it faster too.

Ben
Ps. 1st NZ forum post

.

ka9102 · Post by **ka9102** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:57 am

Ribble wrote: "Billions of Dollars on new railways" building more roads and infrastructure - but Im not sure where the "..new railways.." are being built

auckland and its suburban perhaps??there have been many talks about building an airport railway line and the CBD rail link.but I seriously doubt the airport line would ever happen..its not at all feasible,costs billions of $ and achieves nothing..

1116 · Post by **1116** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:36 am

The airport rail link won't happen as the airport company would lose too much money from car parking.

They won't allow it on their land.

kaiwhara · Post by **kaiwhara** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:50 am

How do you know that? They have publically pledged support for Rail Services!

1116 wrote:The airport rail link won't happen as the airport company would lose too much money from car parking.

They won't allow it on their land.

Post by **Vitalstatistix** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:13 pm

I think a passenger link between Auckland and Hamilton should be ditched altogether or at the very least future proofed, but in the meantime a high speed bus service linking the 2 centres seems like a brighter idea.

Ribble · Post by **Ribble** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:51 am

1116 wrote:The airport rail link won't happen as the airport company would lose too much money from car parking.
They won't allow it on their land.

Auckland and the Airport are "amazing"...... Its the only airport that I have been to that as a passenger, the ONLY way to get to and from there is by Private Transport - Car, Shuttle, Taxi etc ....or by the City Centre - Airport Shuttle AirBus......which cost heaps....$25 single isnt it...and takes ages through congested streets.

There isnt any Public Bus Route to the Airport - is there...?? There was an ex Stagecoach one that went to Manukau some years ago....does that still run.

Signage for arriving passengers is poor for "To the City" alternaties....I came through in mid january and all I could see was "Taxis, Buses, Shuttles"......with poor directions...

There will not be an Rail link to the Airport simply because Auckland realistically, doesnt HAVE an extensive Suburban rail network....and lets face, never will...... so if there was an Airport rail link....what would it feed into ???? Also we have the "Its too expensive' ongoing arguement......and it always WILL BE.

Reality IS that Auckland IS a "Car City" and thats now not going to change.

kaiwhara · Post by **kaiwhara** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:29 am

Tranzit operate Route 380 every 30 minutes to Manukau City Center via Papatoetoe Railway Station between 4:30am and 11:00pm, and Waka Pacific operate the 375 route to Botany TC via Ascot Park, Mangere TC, Middlemore Hospital and Otara TC.

The trains all advertise connections to the 380, and it is announced approaching Papatoetoe Station.

Ribble wrote:
1116 wrote:The airport rail link won't happen as the airport company would lose too much money from car parking.
They won't allow it on their land.
Auckland and the Airport are "amazing"...... Its the only airport that I have been to that as a passenger, the ONLY way to get to and from there is by Private Transport - Car, Shuttle, Taxi etc ....or by the City Centre - Airport Shuttle AirBus......which cost heaps....$25 single isnt it...and takes ages through congested streets.

There isnt any Public Bus Route to the Airport - is there...?? There was an ex Stagecoach one that went to Manukau some years ago....does that still run.

Signage for arriving passengers is poor for "To the City" alternaties....I came through in mid january and all I could see was "Taxis, Buses, Shuttles"......with poor directions...

There will not be an Rail link to the Airport simply because Auckland realistically, doesnt HAVE an extensive Suburban rail network....and lets face, never will...... so if there was an Airport rail link....what would it feed into ???? Also we have the "Its too expensive' ongoing arguement......and it always WILL BE.

Reality IS that Auckland IS a "Car City" and thats now not going to change.

Ribble · Post by **Ribble** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:23 am

kaiwhara wrote:Tranzit operate Route 380 every 30 minutes to Manukau City Center via Papatoetoe Railway Station between 4:30am and 11:00pm, and Waka Pacific operate the 375 route to Botany TC via Ascot Park, Mangere TC, Middlemore Hospital and Otara TC.

Good to hear that they are still operating.....

In the end...and we all should know this......Auckland has "lost" its opportunity in the 1960's really to build a Suburban Rail NETWORK....the famous Mayor, Sir Dove-Myer Robinson said it all in early 1972....and we have all remembered and quoted him ever since.... NO ACTION has really been taken since then its all be "Mend and Make Do" in many ways. ..... Britomart in reality is a minor build.....all restricted by 'costs' and no foresight for the future..... Looking back, $Millions has been wasted on 'temporary solutions'...like the Perth DMU's and then the Push Pull Units.

I think that in the end....if "Governments" and now the Greater ACC REALLY wanted an effective Public Transport system in the greater Auckland area....it would be there my now. Its a bit like the Auckland - Hamilton Passenger service.