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Punt Rd & Hoddle St improvments

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Punt Rd & Hoddle St improvments

Postby Roderick Smith » Sat Jan 02, 2016 2:45 pm

Public transport authority and VicRoads join forces on Punt Road widening plans.
January 2, 2016 Melbourne 'Age'.
Punt Road would be widened to six lanes under options put forward by VicRoads. Photo: Darrian Traynor The state's public transport authority has backed a push by VicRoads to widen Punt Road at key choke points, and eventually to consider demolishing homes to turn the heavily congested arterial road into a six-lane highway.
Public Transport Victoria, which is now led by the former chief executive of VicRoads, has backed the roads agency's push for all-day clearways on Punt Road.
And, over the long term, it has also supported VicRoads' view that a six-lane dual carriageway could one day be needed on Punt Road, which is now a four-lane arterial road.
The two transport authorities have made a joint submission to a panel advising Planning Minister Richard Wynne on whether to keep, modify or remove an overlay that would allow 140 properties on Punt Road to be compulsorily acquired for road widening.
Both want the overlay – on the affected Punt Road homes and properties since 1954 – to be kept.
Labor went to the 2014 election promising to review the overlay because, the party's planning policy said, it "gives locals no control over the fate of their own homes".
Residents furious
Now, residents are furious they are facing a widening of the road instead of removing the condition on their house titles that drives down their property values.
"To keep us on side, Labor said 'We will order this inquiry because it's not right,'" said Andrew Carrasco, a member of Drop Punt, the resident group lobbying to get the overlay removed. "Now they've just turned about face, and said in fact 'We should build a highway.' It's a real betrayal."
In October, VicRoads put forward seven alternative plans to free space on Punt Road.
They include removing all parking to create permanent clearways, widening Punt Road at its major intersections requiring 65 properties to be acquired or impacted, and widening the length of Punt Road from the Yarra to St Kilda Junction by knocking down at least 130 homes.
It also put forward the potential to build a new one-way bridge next to the heritage-listed Morell Bridge by the Botanic Gardens. The Morell Bridge is closed to traffic, and open only to cyclists and pedestrians.
This idea has now been dumped, with the joint PTV-VicRoads submission saying it was "a concept plan only and will not be progressed further".
But the roads and public transport agencies have both backed, in the short term, the idea of improved turning lanes on Punt Road.
And the two agencies have also said that, in the medium term (between five and 15 years away, in their submission), demolition of around half the properties on Punt Road may be needed to widen major intersections.
And both agree a full widening of the arterial road may be needed, with dedicated bus priority lanes along the length of Punt Road, as well as two lanes for cars.
Turning Punt Road from a four-lane arterial to a six-lane highway would "allow for significant amenity improvements through widened footpaths and a central median; extensive tree planting could be achieved both along the verges and median", they said in their submission.
Road expansion agenda
The Public Transport Users Association said the submission showed that Victoria's state bureaucracy still had a "road expansion agenda" despite promises to provide more focus on improving public transport.
"Our transport bureaucracy is still incapable of picturing any future scenario where increased growth and activity isn't catered for primarily through more private car travel," the association's president Tony Morton said.
Dr Morton said the PTUA offered "cautious support" to some of the options being considered that offered improvements to public transport.
But he said the longer-term proposal to widen Punt Road to six lanes with dedicated bus lanes should only be considered if it garnered widespread local community support.
And he predicted if hundreds of millions of dollars were spent widening Punt Road to six lanes, it would "soon enough be swamped by diverted and induced traffic".
A PTV spokesman said the agency worked closely with VicRoads to create a transport network that could accommodate patronage growth in the short, medium and long term.
"Punt Road is a critical and growing corridor for motorists and public transport. As such, it is important to protect opportunities to widen the corridor to meet longer-term demands," he said. "As the frequency of bus services on Punt Road increases, we may need to consider improved priority and segregation of public transport services to ensure they can operate reliably and efficiently."
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/publi ... lxg8c.html
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Punt Rd 24/7 clearway

Postby Roderick Smith » Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:41 pm

This has to offer benefits to bus routes too.

Roderick.

If you're driving on Punt Road today, there is a new rule to pay attention to. It's the first day of the permanent clearways. We'll have a report later this morning on just how well they worked - for now, here's Clay Lucas's original story.
Punt Road will be turned into a permanent clearway next month, stopping single parked cars clogging up one of the city's busiest arterial roads.
The 24 h clearways on Punt Road will operate from August 29 seven days a week. Currently, clearways operate on weekdays only, along both the eastern and western sides between 6.30-9.30am and 3.30-6.30pm.
8.29 Today may mark the day Punt Road lost its rhyming nickname.
The busy arterial road, known for causing Melburnians headaches, has permanent 24-hour clearways as of this morning.
A VicRoads spokesman said early observations showed traffic was moving quicker in both directions along the road.
"It's looking pretty good right now," he said, just after 8am. "It's a bit more free flowing."
Previously, the clearways operated on weekdays only, along both the eastern and western sides between 6.30-9.30am and 3.30-6.30pm.
Those ignoring the new rules will face a $155 fine and $334 to collect their cars.
Punt Road looking south towards South Yarra. Photo: Darrian Traynor.
www.theage.com.au/victoria/melbourne-ex ... r38el.html
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Re: Punt Rd 24/7 clearway

Postby philm » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:38 am

If they had put a bus lane in, then yes there would be benefits. Otherwise any short-term relief will quickly be filled up by more car traffic.
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Re: Punt Rd 24/7 clearway

Postby Buzztop » Sat Sep 03, 2016 7:58 pm

I've yet to experience this as a driver, but it would have to help a small percentage. This is the 'short term' step in improving that corridor. The section between Toorak rd, and Union st, should flow a bit better. Even off peak including weekends stinks with cars parking on the road. Lets just hope they provide those people an alternative place to park their vehicles
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Re: Punt Rd 24/7 clearway

Postby Buzztop » Sat Sep 03, 2016 7:59 pm

philm wrote:If they had put a bus lane in, then yes there would be benefits. Otherwise any short-term relief will quickly be filled up by more car traffic.

Mind telling me where they would put a bus lane in?. And how would that help?
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Re: Punt Rd 24/7 clearway

Postby philm » Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:36 pm

Buzztop wrote:
philm wrote:If they had put a bus lane in, then yes there would be benefits. Otherwise any short-term relief will quickly be filled up by more car traffic.

Mind telling me where they would put a bus lane in?. And how would that help?

Sorry I missed this. Basically for the extra lane capacity that they have created, turn at least one direction into a part-time or full-time bus lane. Then you could run more buses along that corridor and help to alleviate traffic.

As to how that would help, induced demand is the problem: http://www.citylab.com/commute/2015/03/ ... es/386594/
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Re: Punt Rd 24/7 clearway

Postby krustyklo » Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:59 pm

Sorry I missed this. Basically for the extra lane capacity that they have created, turn at least one direction into a part-time or full-time bus lane. Then you could run more buses along that corridor and help to alleviate traffic.

The problem is that the section from the Yarra River to St Kilda Rd is two lanes each way, there is only the 246 that operates along that section, and the best frequency is a short burst of every 7 minutes between 7am and 7.30am southbound. Most of the rest of the time the frequency is around every 10 minutes. There is no way anyone is likely to agree to a halving of the road capacity, having just kicked out parked cars off peak when the bus frequencies are every 10 minutes. Politically it would be a loser, with people fuming at a seemingly empty bus lane, and with a bus of at best 70 people every 10 minutes it would probably be the correct decision to leave it as a general traffic lane as there would be a capacity decrease, even assuming every bus were full and standing at the time of operation of the bus lane.

70 x 6 = 420, and according to Wikipedia
Lane capacity varies widely due to conditions such as neighboring lanes, lane width, elements next to the road, number of driveways, presence of parking, speed limits, number of heavy vehicles and so on – the range can be as low as 1000 passenger cars / hour to as high as 4800 passenger cars /hour but mostly falls between 1500 and 2400 passenger cars / hour.
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Hoddle St 24/7 clearway & bus lanes

Postby Roderick Smith » Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:18 pm

170803Su Melbourne 'Herald Sun' - Hoddle St 24/7 clearway.

Roderick.
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Re: Punt Rd & Hoddle St improvments

Postby philm » Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:47 pm

Media release: http://www.premier.vic.gov.au/streamlin ... ic-moving/

Good to hear (again). The media release does not mention a northbound bus lane though. Hopefully this is an accidental omission.
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Re: Punt Rd & Hoddle St improvments

Postby krustyklo » Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:23 pm

Thank goodness. I had cause to use the DART buses last weekend on both Saturday and Sunday, changing in Hoddle St on both occasions. Was ridiculous that the bus lane is there used as parking, meaning buses crawl along darting in and out of the left hand traffic lane as they service each stop. Thankfully motorists were pretty good about letting buses in, but it was pretty inefficient. FWIW, weekend services along the freeway were full and standing on each service I used on both 905 and 906, as well as the 246. The bus lane on the weekend would be used by 11 buses an hour (2x905, 2x906, 3x907 and 4x246). With sufficient bus priority, it might improve patronage just enough to warrant a better frequency and produce a virtuous spiral of service improvement, further justifying a 24/7 bus lane.
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Re: Punt Rd & Hoddle St improvments

Postby MAN 16.242 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:41 pm

krustyklo wrote:Thank goodness. I had cause to use the DART buses last weekend on both Saturday and Sunday, changing in Hoddle St on both occasions. Was ridiculous that the bus lane is there used as parking, meaning buses crawl along darting in and out of the left hand traffic lane as they service each stop. Thankfully motorists were pretty good about letting buses in, but it was pretty inefficient. FWIW, weekend services along the freeway were full and standing on each service I used on both 905 and 906, as well as the 246. The bus lane on the weekend would be used by 11 buses an hour (2x905, 2x906, 3x907 and 4x246). With sufficient bus priority, it might improve patronage just enough to warrant a better frequency and produce a virtuous spiral of service improvement, further justifying a 24/7 bus lane.

It might worth upgrading 905 & 906 to 20 minutes on weekends like did 907 & 908 last year.
While furthermore it may be worth 908 going into City reduce pressure on 907.
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Re: Punt Rd & Hoddle St improvments

Postby Roderick Smith » Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:43 am

Swan St gains too, helping trams.
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Re: Punt Rd & Hoddle St improvments

Postby Craig » Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:03 pm

krustyklo wrote:The bus lane on the weekend would be used by 11 buses an hour (2x905, 2x906, 3x907 and 4x246). With sufficient bus priority, it might improve patronage just enough to warrant a better frequency and produce a virtuous spiral of service improvement, further justifying a 24/7 bus lane.


Not forgetting the 302 & 304 Belmore Rd services, which makes the total 15 buses an hour on Saturdays.

Here's the view one Saturday a few months back:
Image

Kind Regards



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Re: Punt Rd & Hoddle St improvments

Postby krustyklo » Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:31 pm

Not forgetting the 302 & 304 Belmore Rd services, which makes the total 15 buses an hour on Saturdays.

Thanks, I had forgotten them! One bus every 4 minutes on weekends sounds very much worth an upgrade. One thing I've wondered for a while is if anyone has done the sums on the extra costs of running frequent buses compared to the loss in giving them priority? I often suspect the financial value of on street parking is very overrated...

It might worth upgrading 905 & 906 to 20 minutes on weekends like did 907 & 908 last year.
While furthermore it may be worth 908 going into City reduce pressure on 907.

I can't comment on weekend 907 services but I was actually somewhat surprised how busy the 905 and 906 were on the weekend. Once we entered the freeway, in all instances on both days there were all seats taken and people standing in the aisles, including most of the way towards the back. This was both in the middle of the day heading to the city, as well as around 5pm heading back (we'd gone to AMRA at Caulfield on the Saturday and the football at Etihad on Sunday). To be honest, I suspect more frequent services would attract enough extra patronage and spread the existing patronage to still provide full buses without having people standing towards the back (which I suspect is not overly safe having nearly fallen down the stairs before in similar situations with sudden stops).

It will be interesting to see the Census data on travel to work from Manningham when it is released in October to compare it to the 4,279 out of 53,191 people who travelled by bus in the 2011 census (8%) when DART had just started the previous October. For comparison, the previous figure was 3,155 out of 52,751 in the 2006 census (6%).
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Re: Punt Rd & Hoddle St improvments

Postby nonscenic » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:51 pm

MAN 16.242 wrote:
It might worth upgrading 905 & 906 to 20 minutes on weekends like did 907 & 908 last year.
While furthermore it may be worth 908 going into City reduce pressure on 907.


Even 20 minutes in a city the size of Melbourne at weekends is a joke.
Certainly increasing the hours (in each direction) that the 908 runs through to the city on both weekdays and weekends would decrease overcrowding, particularly on the 905.
Currently the 905 is a better option for some compared to catching a 908 and wasting time at the Park and Ride.
After 33 years of commuting by bus, I now have a Seniors Myki and two more hours a day not stuck in Victoria parade on a Transdev bus.
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Re: Punt Rd & Hoddle St improvments

Postby nonscenic » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:09 pm

In the media stories it also mentioned about increasing the green light time for through Hoddle St traffic.
Already in the weekday am peak there can be a queue of buses waiting to turn right into Victoria Parade so presumably the southbound bus lane will become a parking lane for queued buses.
The left turn in the evening peak shouldn't be the same problem if the bus lane is made continuous from Victoria Parade into Hoddle Street but is that asking too much of VicRoads in their battle against local councils?
After 33 years of commuting by bus, I now have a Seniors Myki and two more hours a day not stuck in Victoria parade on a Transdev bus.
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