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Metro contract

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Metro contract

Postby Roderick Smith » Sat Mar 26, 2016 8:12 am

Who could replace Metro? Japan would be politically unacceptable. Europe wouldn't touch the basket case. I vote for India. Whoever gets it has to cope with the completely-useless PTV.

160326Sa Melbourne 'Herald Sun': Metro contract.
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Re: Metro contract

Postby V981 » Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:39 pm

These reports that Metro engages in "station skipping" to make up time....has anybody ever experienced this? I must admit I have never had it happen to me so I am unsure whether this is actually a regular Metro practice or if it is simply "urban myth". If it is happening, I am not at all happy about it, I think trains should always stop at stations that they are scheduled to stop at.

What I will say though, I think overall, Metro has done a much better job of running the rail network than the previous operators, Connex. In my experience the network is generally more reliable. Would everybody else here share that same view??

On the tram side of things, I think Yarra Trams has done an excellent job in running the tram network, so I can see no obvious reason why they shouldn't be given another contract for the next 7 years.
The views expressed by me are mine and mine only. They do not neccesarily fall in line with the views of my friends, family, collegues or my employer.
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Re: Metro contract

Postby Heihachi_73 » Sat Mar 26, 2016 6:50 pm

Give the contract to Transdev. :lol:
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Re: Metro contract

Postby crakening » Sat Mar 26, 2016 8:52 pm

I've noticed station skipping/diverting direct to Flinder St a couple of times, although I think it mainly seems to affect the Pakenham/Cranbourne, Belgrave/Lilydale and Werribee services (Altona loop). I've heard it can be pretty bad in the late morning, especially diverting direct. All in all, my main complaints with the system aren't so much how it is run, but the services provided, which ultimately falls to PTV and the State Government.
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Re: Metro contract

Postby Leyland B21 » Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:34 pm

It has happened to me on the Pakenham line. Although it's actually not been common from what I've seen. The last time it happened when I was pax would have been February. We were originally express between South Yarra and Caulfield. In order to catch time and be at Dandenong by 9.31pm we were delayed and skipped Huntingdale, Clayton, Westall, Sandown Park, Noble Park and Yarraman. We still got into Dandenong 4 or 5 mins late but caught up on time.
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Re: Metro contract

Postby notch » Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:06 pm

V981 wrote:Metro has done a much better job of running the rail network than the previous operators, Connex.
Let me fix that for you.
V981 meant to have wrote:Metro has done a much better job of running the rail network into the ground than the previous operators, Connex.


In my experience the network is generally more reliable. Would everybody else here share that same view??[/quote]Anyone who had any actual experience dealing with or using Metro would beg to differ.
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Re: Metro contract

Postby 712M » Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:40 am

The station skipping and bypassing of the City Loop is still very common, especially on the Caulfield Group. You can almost guarantee that if an inbound train is more than 3 minutes late it will be diverted direct to Flinders Street, even if it is going out of service straight after. Metro's logic is that every one must be travelling to Flinders Street and therefore the train has arrived on time, despite hundreds of people bound for Loop stations will now be late for work. This should be counted as a cancellation. Another example of their corner-cutting is terminating short of the terminus (ie. terminating Pakenham and Cranbourne trains at Dandenong) in order for the inbound train to run on time. This meaning that people at the ends of the line have a cancelled service however Metro don't get penalised because the train as still technically ran.
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Re: Metro contract

Postby jarf » Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:56 am

Station skipping happens rather frequently on the Craigieburn line, mostly heading outbound in the morning. One morning in 2013 five services in a row were altered to run express North Melbourne-Essendon-Broadmeadows following major delays in the loop.

I've only experienced it once on the Sunbury line, with a counter peak train altered to run express Footscray-St Albans-Watergardens, although I have also had a service terminate short at St Albans after being delayed 35 minutes (with several trains immediately behind it), and an up Sunbury that miraculously turned into an up Watergardens two stations into its journey. :wink:
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Re: Metro contract

Postby Roderick Smith » Sun Mar 27, 2016 4:46 pm

I have experienced the lot: station skipping, loop skipping, lengthy bustitution delays.
What shows when I do look at the daily logs: Metro has been lying blatantly re the level of such actions. The incidence is far more widespread than it admits.
The blame stems from the 1992 Liberal government adopting a flawed UK model for privatising. The penalties/rewards clauses in the contract are simply a game of chess between the government and the franchisee, and the travelling public are treated as pawns.
It isn't just that PTV is incompetent, or that Metro can't cope, doesn't try and doesn't care. It is that both cover their lack of ability with spin, contempt and outright lies.
There hasn't been a competent transport minister since Crabb (Labor, constructive) or Brown (Liberal, destructive, but competent at it).
It is hard to find any world operator who could cope with Melbourne conditions. The current KCR was the wrong choice from the outset (and Labor made, as ever gullibly falling for what the supposedly-neutral DoT/DoI/PTV fed it).
Almost certainly nepotistic KCR (UK in disguise) will be given the go by the UK-dominated PTV, and yet again the cause of improved public transport will plateau or go backwards.
Not one of the Liberal quangos has done anything to improve public transport: coming up with new colours has been the only action, the standard 'how to fool the masses' adopted anywhere, any time.
This is not a political-bias post: both parties are equally incompetent and equally useless, for similar reasons: the permanent transport department and treasury. Both parties spend their time being peevish in opposition and useless in power.
Now there are more quangos, notably LXRA, which is totally road biased, and is doing nothing useful for public transport today, and isn't futureproofing anything.

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Re: Metro contract

Postby Campbelltown busboy » Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:08 pm

Why doesn't PTV and the Victorian government put a joint bid to buy back the Melbourne suburban network from metro trains then the trains might start running more efficiently
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Re: Metro contract

Postby Fleet Lists » Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:18 pm

That would be interesting - putting in a bid to themselves - that would certainly be a conflict of intersts.
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Re: Metro contract

Postby notch » Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:46 pm

No company has managed to do more to destroy the goodwill of all non-457 visa staff more comprehensively than MTM. Staff morale is destroyed by pettiness, bullying and by running the system down so badly into the ground to send as much money back to Honkers and the UK based failed management pockets. Metro's current backers might talk about 'pride', but I can assure you that does not exist. Why should Metro staff be 'proud' of destroying the knowledge base, running on track in the worst condition in living memory, not repairing faults, bullying and harassing staff, and allowing everything to deteriorate?

Anyone who thinks "the network is generally more reliable" is an utter and total idiot.

Station skipping is not as prevalent now than it was about six months ago. What happens now is that trains will be "stepped down". In some circumstances, it can remove delays caused by externalities such as our charming public breaking things, or

An example. Your up Frankston will, for whatever reason, be late. Could be the train's got so many "maintenance" faults on it that it's really slow, could be that timetabling are a bunch of incompetent fools, could be signalling or track circuit failures, "temporary" speed restrictions, drivers not trained adequately, vandalism that's allowed to run virtually unchecked, passengers holding doors open, you name it.

So, your train is "cancelled" at Mordialloc. It then becomes the following train - while still 10 minutes late, it's on time!
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Re: Metro contract

Postby scott » Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:47 am

Heihachi_73 wrote:Give the contract to Transdev. :lol:


No,No,No, they can't even run buses properly.
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Re: Metro contract

Postby BroadGauge » Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:52 am

V981 wrote:Metro has done a much better job of running the rail network than the previous operators, Connex. In my experience the network is generally more reliable. Would everybody else here share that same view??

LOL!!! Do you ever even actually use the system, or do you just read the Herald Sun?

scott wrote:No,No,No, they can't even run buses properly.

Perhaps surprisingly their rail operation in Auckland (which was originally known as Connex Auckland, then Veolia, now Transdev) actually has a fairly good reputation. In that case the privatisation did wonders for the network.
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Re: Metro contract

Postby Frosty » Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:48 am

I've got a bizarre suggestion hand the operations interstate to Sydney Trains.

Well actually the problem lays with the flawed franchise model and the complex nature of the Melbourne network. There needs to be all new rethink of the franchise model.
I'm comparing the Sydney vs Melbourne Train network far more complex than Sydney Melbourne. There are so many branches it makes so hard run an efficient operation with many flat junctions and level crossings.

Metro are pathetic & hopeless they wouldn't even be able to run a lemonade stand.
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Re: Metro contract

Postby Campbelltown busboy » Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:05 pm

Maybe PTV could try to reintroduce double deck trains after the failure of project 4D
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4D_Train
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Re: Metro contract

Postby Fleet Lists » Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:56 pm

What has that got to do with the contract?
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Re: Metro contract

Postby paulgersche » Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:08 pm

Campbelltown busboy wrote:Why doesn't PTV and the Victorian government put a joint bid to buy back the Melbourne suburban network from metro trains then the trains might start running more efficiently


Don't the Vic Government actually own the trains already?

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Re: Metro contract

Postby Campbelltown busboy » Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:22 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:What has that got to do with the contract?
I ment they should put the double deck trial in as apart of the new contract
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Re: Metro contract

Postby Roderick Smith » Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:38 am

PTV (morphed from DoI/DoT) is the reason for having no double-deck fleet. It's UK managers were passionately against the idea, and so the organisation responsible for public transport created the artificial capaciaty 'crisis', and will do nothing to solve it.

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Re: Metro contract

Postby V981 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:13 pm

BroadGauge wrote:
V981 wrote:Metro has done a much better job of running the rail network than the previous operators, Connex. In my experience the network is generally more reliable. Would everybody else here share that same view??

LOL!!! Do you ever even actually use the system, or do you just read the Herald Sun?



As a matter of fact, I use the trains quite frequently, particularly when I am travelling to the CBD which is on many occasions several times a week. And from my personal experience, I have encountered far less service cancellations, late running trains and other issues while the network has been under Metro's stewardship. Also I find the customer service staff to be a little better than the Connex days, although their is still room for improvement there. Ultimately, when I use the train, I think like any other commuter does. And the questions we ask are 1. Does the train arrive on time or at the very least, near the due time? Does the train get me to where I need to get to at or near the due time? 3. Is the service provided currently generally user friendly? And on all 3 counts currently, I don't think Metro is doing a bad job all things considered. When Connex was running the system, I often found myself actively avoiding using the train, solely based on the experience I had at the time, which were that the network could not be relied upon, especially if I had an important engagement to get to.
The views expressed by me are mine and mine only. They do not neccesarily fall in line with the views of my friends, family, collegues or my employer.
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Re: Metro contract

Postby Fleet Lists » Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:43 am

Please keep personalities out of this - one post edited and one deleted.
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Re: Metro contract

Postby Roderick Smith » Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:20 pm

Luba Grigorovitch: Oh, the places you won’t go with Metro.
Herald Sun July 20, 2017.
NONE of us should really be surprised by Melbourne’s rail crisis.
After all, Dr Seuss warned us all that this day would come — the day when everyone is just waiting: “Waiting for a train to go, or a bus to come, or a plane to go or the phone to ring, or the snow to snow or waiting around for a Yes or No or waiting for their hair to grow. Everyone is just waiting.”
METRO TRAIN DRIVER’S EMOTIONAL PA ANNOUNCEMENT
MELBOURNE’S TRAIN HORNS DON’T MEET STANDARDS
METRO TRAINS DELAYED DUE TO FAULT
There are upsides, of course, to being stranded on a rail platform. You can catch up with friends on social media, sharpen up your crossword skills, or read the Herald Sun from cover to cover.
But the problem is that most of us really can’t afford to be stranded by a failing public transport system day after day. The regular delays not only affect us personally, but they are costing the Victorian economy millions of dollars.
The Rail, Tram & Bus Union has been doing its best to hold Metro to account, and to pressure the company into lifting its performance. We have exposed systemic failures in the way track maintenance has been managed, and a culture of putting profits above service.
The only thing that Metro has proven to be good at is cutting corners, with chronic understaffing right across the network. Picture: David Caird
While investigations are still under way into the cause of the problems, the Metro meltdown which paralysed the entire network on Thursday, July 13, exposed the fact that our train control system does not have an adequate Plan B when things go wrong.
Metro’s $80 million Disaster Recovery Centre was unable to be activated. What’s more, it was unstaffed, and workers from the main site in the CBD had to somehow travel from across the city just to get in the door.
Meanwhile, questions also remain over the cause of a derailment just days later on the Lilydale line, which again saw services cancelled and commuters stranded.
It was not supposed to be this way.
When Jeff Kennett privatised Victoria’s rail and tram operations, he promised more services and better performance at a much lower cost to the taxpayer.
We would turf out the crusty old Victorians who had been running the system for decades, and replace them with companies from overseas who would bring all their wonderful overseas expertise and cleverness with them.
The new operators would turn the old system into something shiny and new, using their special powers of private sector magic.
Oh the places we would go!
Sadly for Victorians, it hasn’t turned out that way.
The only thing that Metro has proven to be good at it is cutting corners, with chronic understaffing right across the network.
Last year, the head of the Australian Consumer and Competition Commission Rod Sims said the privatisation of public assets was not delivering the promised benefits for the people of Australia. Picture: Josie Hayden
When it comes to under-investing in track maintenance, skipping stations, and failing to recruit, train and deploy adequate numbers of qualified staff to meet basic operational needs, Metro is indeed world-class.
So while Metro is sending fat profits back to its overseas shareholders, commuters are wondering when things are going to improve.
Perhaps it’s time that we, as a state, moved beyond our cultural cringe, and gave ourselves some credit.
Despite what people in Spring St may think, Victorians are not stupid.
We have some extremely talented and highly qualified people right here in Victoria who are eminently capable of running our local train and tram services.
RTBU has been running a campaign to return our train and tram operations into public hands.
We believe this is the best way to ensure that Victorians get value-for-money from their investment in public transport.
Most importantly, returning these operations back to the people means that control of important decisions is taken out of the hands of foreign companies.
But it’s not just unions who are calling for a rethink of privatisation.
Last year, the head of the Australian Consumer and Competition Commission Rod Sims said the privatisation of public assets was not delivering the promised benefits for the people of Australia.
Other countries are also finding that the shine is wearing off the privatisation agenda.
A recent parliamentary report in the United Kingdom found that rail privatisation had failed to deliver on the key benefits that were initially envisaged.
It’s little wonder that sections of the UK rail network that were handed over to the private sector in the 1990s are now coming back into the public sector.
In fact, last year Transport for London brought a maintenance contract for works on three Tube lines back in-house, saving an estimated $131 million in private-sector management fees over the next decade.
I’m sure that putting Victoria’s train and trams back in public hands seems like climbing a mountain to many of our politicians. But they shouldn’t be so timid. Victorians, more than ever, need their leaders to stand up and show some courage.
As the famous Dr Seuss book also said: “Today is your day! Your mountain is waiting. So ... get on your way!”
Luba Grigorovitch is branch secretary of the Rail, Tram and Bus Union
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinio ... fa58fb2331
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Re: Metro contract

Postby Heihachi_73 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:01 am

V/Line for metro services? That's got to be Australian enough. Why not, buses replacing trains on a frequent basis happens on the metro side too!
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Re: Metro contract

Postby Roderick Smith » Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:01 pm

170716Su Melbourne 'Herald Sun' - Metro contract

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