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PTV: Proposed bus network upgrade for Casey

Melbourne / Victoria Transport Discussion

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Re: PTV: Proposed bus network upgrade for Casey

Postby Craig » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:45 pm

More observations:

Appears 789, 790 & 791 will only depart from the eastern side of Frankston Station now, in Fletcher Rd. In effect most arrivals currently informally sit here for about 5 minutes anyway, 90% of the bus just gets off rather than get dropped on the other side of the station (closer to Bayside Shopping Centre).

791, 897 & 898 trips towards Cranbourne Station (& Lynbrook) will now stop at the current V/Line set down stop outside Cranbourne Park Shopping Centre rather than enter Lyall St Interchange.

789 route map incorrectly still shows a loop around Langwarrin - 789 buses no longer operate on Cranbourne-Frankston Rd between Quarry Rd & Potts Rd.

798 peak service has actually been downgraded from 15 mins to 20 mins, and as a result of the ~15 min train headway, the current trip departing Selandra Rise at 7:41 is effectively cut, leaving a long 32 min gap at what would be the busiest time of day!

799 peak service largely downgraded to 40 mins - currently 30 min AM peak and 20 mins between 17:30 & 19:30.

843 still operates at 2-hour intervals on Sundays and retains a 18:45 finish weeknights & 17:30 finish weekends.

863 is only showing a timetable towards Hampton Park from 4 December. As the runtime is 22-23 mins each way, it inefficiently requires two buses to operate a 40 min headway, further strengthening my argument that it should have gone to Cranbourne Transit as an extended 894 or alternatively Ventura's 861 could have been extended south.

890 operates a bizarre 04:25 weekday departure from Lynbrook that I can only assume will be a lonely drive. I'd have thought running 890 hourly on weekends would have been sufficient, with the balance of funding spent on an upgrade of 892 to 40 mins instead (given half the route is through residential areas).

A quiet change made to 892 from 31 July was the Casey Central terminus was relocated to Narre Warren-Cranbourne Rd, which will be retained with the change (Dandenong-bound departures were moved a 1 min earlier as a result.) 892 trips in the morning peak towards Dandenong have been cut from 50 mins to 45 mins, but still a long slog to the station for those at the far end of the route in Narre Warren South.

897 timetable is missing times for both Cranbourne Park Shopping Centre & Cranbourne Station.

Finally, good to see several routes have a common 40 min pattern between Saturday and Sunday - elsewhere there are cases where the pattern shifts by 20 mins on Sundays, making the timetable almost impossible to memorise.

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Re: PTV: Proposed bus network upgrade for Casey

Postby 712M » Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:31 pm

My interpretation re: routes 798 and 898 missing timing points is that they will be through routed to avoid over-servicing the Cranbourne Park Shopping Centre - Cranbourne Station section. During off-peak there is a 3 minute layover at Cranbourne Station which allows for a 5 minute connection with trains in both directions on both routes.
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Re: PTV: Proposed bus network upgrade for Casey

Postby Craig » Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:32 pm

A greatly revised version has since appeared on the PTV website, almost all my comments seem to have been incorporated. :D I am not sure about the exact wording of the alternative service comments though, it reads awkwardly to me.

PTV wrote:Image

A new Cranbourne bus network
From 13 November, travelling on the Cranbourne bus network is getting easier. There are 17 new and improved services providing:
more direct services so it’s easier to get to work, study or leisure
buses in areas that haven’t had public transport
more trips on busy routes and weekends
better connections with trains and other buses.

Other key features include:
a new route between Dandenong and Lynbrook stations that services the Dandenong South industrial area
a new route that runs directly to Berwick Station from Cranbourne North
a bus between Frankston and Langwarrin every 10 minutes on weekdays and between Cranbourne and Frankston every 20 minutes on weekdays.

Getting around Cranbourne
New bus routes connect you with more places including:
Cranbourne North and surrounding estates
Cranbourne West
Narre Warren South
Cranbourne South and Botanic Ridge
Clyde
Selandra Rise Estate
Cranbourne East
Pearcedale
Endeavour Hills.

More bus services run to shops and recreation centres, so you’ll spend more time doing what you enjoy. It will be easier to get to:
Casey Central Shopping Centre
Cranbourne Park Shopping Centre
Fountain Gate Shopping Centre
Marriott Waters Shopping Centre
The Avenue Village Shopping Centre
Endeavour Hills Shopping Centre
Hampton Park Shopping Centre
Eden Rise Shopping Centre
Dandenong Plaza
Casey Complex and Indoor leisure Centre
Casey Fields
Frankston Beach.

Travelling further
Bus timetables are better coordinated with trains, so you’ll have more choice when you travel.

Buses will connect with trains at:
Berwick Station
Cranbourne Station
Dandenong Station
Frankston Station
Hallam Station
Lynbrook Station
Merinda Park Station

Buses will connect with other buses at:
Berwick Station
Casey Central Shopping Centre.
Cranbourne Park Shopping Centre
Cranbourne Station
Dandenong Station
Endeavour Hills Shopping Centre
Fountain Gate Shopping Centre
Hallam Station
Frankston Station
Hampton Park Shopping Centre
Lynbrook Station
The Avenue Village Shopping Centre

To get started
Download the Cranbourne Bus Network brochure (PDF) 4.3MB - https://static.ptv.vic.gov.au/Cranbourn ... 00x265.jpg

For customers with accessibility requirements, all information on the brochure is contained within this page.

Click here to view your new timetable or plan your journey. -
Click here for more information about the Better Bus Network program. -

Route summaries
Click on the links below to find what's changing on your route:
Route 789 Frankston Station to Langwarrin via Langwarrin North
Route 790 Frankston Station to Langwarrin via Langwarrin South
Route 791 Frankston Station to Cranbourne Station
Route 792 Cranbourne Station to Botanic Ridge and Pearcedale
Route 796 Cranbourne Station to Clyde
Route 798 Selandra Rise to Cranbourne Park Shopping Centre
Route 799 Merinda Park Station to The Avenue Village Shopping Centre
Route 843 Dandenong Station to Endeavour Hills
Route 847 Berwick Station to The Avenue Village Shopping Centre
Route 863 Endeavour Hills Shopping Centre to Hampton Park Shopping Centre
Route 890 Lynbrook Station to Dandenong Station
Route 891 Lynbrook Station to Fountain Gate Shopping Centre
Route 892 Casey Central Shopping Centre to Dandenong Station via Hampton Park
Route 893 Cranbourne Park Shopping Centre to Dandenong Station
Route 897 Clyde to Lynbrook Station via Cranbourne
Route 898 Cranbourne East to Cranbourne Station
Route 899 The Avenue Village Shopping Centre to Berwick Station

Discontinued routes
Route 797 has been replaced by routes 791, 792 and 897
Route 896 has been replaced by routes 798, 897 and 898

Download the Cranbourne Bus network map to see which route is best for you. -

Route 789 Frankston Station to Langwarrin via Langwarrin North
Route 789 now travels to Langwarrin North. Buses run every 40 minutes during the week and now operate on Sunday.

To get to Cranbourne catch the Route 791.

Existing customers are encouraged to check the map for changes to Route 789 which will now by serviced by Route 792.

Route 790 Frankston Station to Langwarrin via Langwarrin South
Route 790 now travels to Langwarrin South. Buses run every 40 minutes during the week and now operate on Sunday.

To get to Cranbourne catch the Route 791.

Existing customers are encouraged to check the map for changes to Route 790 which will now by serviced by Route 792.

Route 791 Frankston Station to Cranbourne Station
Route 791 now travels to Cranbourne Station. Buses run every 20 minutes during the week and 40 minutes on weekends.

You can catch 789, 790 or 791 between Frankston Station and Langwarrin for a combined 10 minute frequency.

Existing customers are encouraged to check the map for changes to Route 791 which will now by serviced by Route 792.

Route 792 Cranbourne Station to Botanic Ridge and Pearcedale (New route)


Route 792 is a new bus service that travels from Cranbourne Station to Botanic Ridge. Buses run every 40 minutes during the day, 7 days a week. Every third bus service throughout the day runs to Pearcedale.

Catch the Route 792 to Cranbourne Station to connect with routes :
791
795
796
798
841
893
897
898.

Route 792 operates seven days a week.

Route 796 Cranbourne Station to Clyde
Catch Route 796 to:
Casey Fields
Cranbourne Station
Cranbourne Park shopping centre

Change at Cranbourne Station for routes:
791
792
795
798
841
897
898

Or change at Cranbourne Park Shopping Centre for routes 841 and 893.

Improved services Monday to Friday and now operates every 2 hours across the weekend.

Route 798 Selandra Rise to Cranbourne Park Shopping Centre
Route 798 now runs down Selandra Boulevard and terminates at Heather Grove

Improved frequency on weekends with an extra four services on Saturday and 20 minute services on Sunday.

Change at Cranbourne Station for routes:
791
792
795
796
897
898

Change at Cranbourne Station or Cranbourne Shopping Centre for routes 841 and 893.

Route 799 Merinda Park Station to The Avenue Village Shopping Centre
Route 799 travels from Merinda Park Station to the Avenue Village Shopping Centre. Buses run every 40 minutes across the weekend.

Existing Route 799 customers should now change to Route 841 or 893 to connect to Cranbourne Park Shopping Centre.

Route 843 Dandenong Station to Endeavour Hills
Route 843 has been extended giving residents of Endeavour Hills (North) direct access to Endeavour Hills Shopping Centre.

Route 847 Berwick Station to The Avenue Village Shopping Centre
Route 847 has been extended from Glasscocks Road south to Avenue Village Shopping Centre.

Route 863 Endeavour Hills SC to Hampton Park SC (New route)
Route 863 is a new bus that travels between Endeavour Hills Shopping Centre and Hampton Park Shopping Centre. You can also connect to the city and Dandenong from Hallam Station.

Route 890 Lynbrook Station to Dandenong Station (New route)
Route 890 is a new bus that runs to the Dandenong South industrial area from Lynbrook and Dandenong stations, making it easier to get to work.

Route 891 Lynbrook Station to Fountain Gate Shopping Centre
Route 891 now travels to Lynbrook and Hallam stations, Hallam Shopping Centre and Fountain Gate. With more services on weekends.

Catch Route 891 to:
Lynbrook and Hallam stations
Lynbrook Village Shopping Centre
Hampton Park Shopping Centre
Fountain Gate Shopping Centre

Route 892 Casey Central Shopping Centre to Dandenong Station via Hampton Park
Route 892 travels between Casey Central Shopping Centre and Dandenong Station. Buses run every 30 minutes during the week and every 60 minutes on weekends.

Catch the Route 892 to:
Casey Central Shopping Centre
Hampton Park Shopping Centre
Dandenong Station

Route 893 Cranbourne Park Shopping Centre to Dandenong Station
Route 893 provides a direct connection between Cranbourne and Dandenong Station. You can also connect to the city and Dandenong from Hallam Station. Buses operate every 20 minutes during the day, seven days a week.

Existing customers are encouraged to check the map for changes to Route 893 which will now by serviced by 891 and 894.

Catch the Route 893 to:
Dandenong Station
Hallam
Hampton Park Shopping Centre
Lynbrook Shopping Centre
Cranbourne
Cranbourne Park Shopping Centre

Change at Cranbourne Park Shopping Centre for routes:
791
795
796
798
841
897
898

Route 897 Clyde to Lynbrook Station via Cranbourne
Route 897 provides a direct connection between Clyde and Lynbrook Station. With more services, buses now run every 20 minutes, 7 days a week.

Catch the Route 897 to:
Cranbourne and Lynbrook stations
Marriott Waters Shopping Centre
Cranbourne Park Shopping Centre
Casey Fields

Change at Cranbourne Station for routes:
791
792
795
796
798
898

Or at Cranbourne Park Shopping Centre to catch routes 841 and 893.

Route 898 Cranbourne East to Cranbourne Station
Route 898 provides a direct service between Cranbourne East and Cranbourne Station. Buses now run every 40 minutes on Saturdays.

Catch Route 898 to:
Cranbourne East
Cranbourne Park Shopping Centre
Cranbourne Station

Route 899 The Avenue Village Shopping Centre to Berwick Station
Route 899 is a new bus service that runs from Cranbourne North to The Avenue Village Shopping Centre and Eden Rise Shopping Centre. Connect with routes 799, 847 or Berwick Station to travel throughout Casey.


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Re: PTV: Proposed bus network upgrade for Casey

Postby Craig » Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:58 pm

Two more observations:

789 will no longer operate along Stevens Rd in Langwarrin, after 13 1/2 years - the straightening of the route will have no real effect on coverage as the suburban density ends just past the north-west end of Stevens Rd. This change however was not shown on the consultation period map.

Originally when 789 was introduced in March 2003, buses ran via Gum Nut Dr, left Lexton Dr, left Stevens Rd, left Granite Dr, right Beacon Dr & right Cranbourne-Frankston Rd. The duplication of Cranbourne-Frankston Rd during 2006 saw the route changed on 5th August 2006 as the right turn out of Beacon Dr was no longer possible. The route became Gum Nut Dr, left Cotoneaster Way, right Granite Dr, right Stevens Rd, left into Lexton Dr, left into Quarry Rd, right into Cranbourne-Frankston Rd, using traffic lights to aid the turn.

Looking at the stop IDs, it appears 893 will continue to existing stops at Lynbrook Village Shopping Centre in Lynbrook Bvd (e.g. a bus to Dandenong will turn left at Lynbrook Bvd, u-turn at Dyson Dr then continue north-east up Lynbrook Bvd to Halam Rd. This will save passengers from crossing the busy highway and allow easier transfers to/from 891 (for instance passengers wanting to reach McDowall Rd from Cranbourne).

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Re: PTV: Proposed bus network upgrade for Casey

Postby tonyw » Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:24 am

Having lived in Endeavour Hills many years ago, I find it amazing that there is still no bus route that goes THROUGH Endeavour Hills, just routes that originate from Dandenong and terminate in Endeavour Hills. Why on earth isn't there a route from Dandenong to Fountain Gate VIA Endeavour Hills? Or a Dandenong to Belgrave VIA Endeavour Hills. As always to go any where from Endeavour Hills you have to go via Dandenong.
I am a member of the public and I guess I am a moron, although I try very hard not to be.
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Settlers Run (Cranbourne area) bus stops

Postby Roderick Smith » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:30 am

Settlers Run residents unhappy about placement of new bus stops in Botanic Ridge.
Cranbourne Leader October 20, 2016.
SETTLERS Run residents say bus stops for long-awaited new services through Botanic Ridge are dangerous and will cause congestion in already cramped and narrow streets.
The State Government announced the routes on September 30.
The routes, which will operate from November 13, include route 792 through Botanic Ridge and Cranbourne West.
HAVE YOUR SAY: What do you think of the new routes and stops? Tell us below.
John Allen said there had been no consultation with residents about placement of the stops.
He said residents had suggested other locations they thought would be safer and more convenient but their suggestions were ignored.
NEW BUS SERVICES TO HIT THE ROAD
“There’s a range of issues, safety issues … the roads are thin and it would be difficult for the bus to pass,” he said.
“(In some areas) people will not be able to see traffic coming.
“The other thing is we lose our public parking spaces because you are not allowed to park within 20m before a bus stop and 10m after.
WHERE THE STREETS HAVE NO ROOM
“In Settlers Run it was never mooted that we would have public transport and there was a lack of community awareness that this decision has been made.”
Cr Geoff Ablett, who is supporting the residents’ cause, said the placement of the stops was inappropriate.
Settlers Run residents say they were not adequately consulted about the new routes. Picture: Jason Sammon.
“(PTV) has told residents who now will have these bus stops at their front doors ‘too bad for you’,” he wrote on his Facebook page.
“Council were told of the stops but we’re not allowed to put forward concerns for residents.
“I hope Jude Perera and transport Minister the Hon. Jacinta Allen can come to their senses and review this service for a people-friendly outcome.
“Or is this another Sky rail take us to court episode?”
Cranbourne state Labor MP Jude Perera said just four residents had contacted him with complaints about the bus stop.
“Unfortunately there seems to be a communication breakdown between senior council officers and elected councillors in relation to the much needed bus routes including bus stops,” he said.
“Senior council officers have been screaming for buses since the Baillieu/Napthine term of government.”
Public Transport Victoria said the location of new bus stops was determined by factors including clear line of sight, whether buses could stop easily and safely, whether there was enough space to be compliant with the Disability Discrimination Act and whether bus stops were evenly spaced.
PTV spokesman Jake McLaughlan said the community was consulted “extensively” and it had considered resident feedback.
“In consultation with local council, VicRoads and the relevant bus operator, PTV considers a range of factors including the safety of motorists and pedestrians when determining the most appropriate location for a bus stop or shelter,” he said.
www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/south-east/ ... 504f1c8d9e with a cliche grim photo: arms crossed.
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Re: PTV: Proposed bus network upgrade for Casey

Postby Andy O » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:01 pm

Interesting, Only in Settlers Run would the residents have a cry about now having public transaport available. Im sure the previous 20 minute walk with no footpath or even nature strip for that matter would be a much safer alternative. On another note, bus stops along evans road and around marriott waters are now starting to appear.
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Re: PTV: Proposed bus network upgrade for Casey

Postby Heihachi_73 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:06 pm

tonyw wrote:Having lived in Endeavour Hills many years ago, I find it amazing that there is still no bus route that goes THROUGH Endeavour Hills, just routes that originate from Dandenong and terminate in Endeavour Hills. Why on earth isn't there a route from Dandenong to Fountain Gate VIA Endeavour Hills? Or a Dandenong to Belgrave VIA Endeavour Hills. As always to go any where from Endeavour Hills you have to go via Dandenong.
Sounds like a typical case of 'Car Suburb' Syndrome. Do streets in Endeavour Hills look like spaghetti and lack footpaths too? I can't be bothered getting out the Melway to find out.
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Re: PTV: Proposed bus network upgrade for Casey

Postby krustyklo » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:15 pm

Sounds like a typical case of 'Car Suburb' Syndrome. Do streets in Endeavour Hills look like spaghetti and lack footpaths too? I can't be bothered getting out the Melway to find out.


Having friends in Endeavour Hills I can confirm that
a) The streets are indeed spaghetti like.
b) They do actually have footpaths, pretty sure on both sides of the road the parts I have been to.

No idea about getting there by bus, much quicker to get there and around there by car down the Monash Fwy. I think I looked into it once, but it was going to take far too long and the map of routes was the fettuccine to the spaghetti roads.
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Re: PTV: Proposed bus network upgrade for Casey

Postby Heihachi_73 » Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:54 pm

Ringwood has fairly normal road structures, but is still being pushed to install footpaths on those streets; a number of streets had the low kerbs (just the gutter part) on the intersections done decades ago but not the ramp or the path to go with it, leading straight to grass/mud. Just about every street between the Ringwood Bypass and Loughnan Rd completely lacks footpaths, as do other side streets off Warrandyte Rd, Mullum Mullum Rd and just about everywhere else I've walked. By the end of the year, they might even complete the footpath on New St they've been installing near McDonald's for the past month or three (they recently extended the carpark over the nearby vacant lot, which consists of only a small electrical substation every since Patterson Cheney Holden was demolished). All 10 or so slabs of it. Likewise, keep going downhill to Bond St and you'll find that there is no footpath on the northern side around the factories/car dealers, and they all happily park on the grass. The residential streets north of Bond St were all done a few years ago, prior to that it was just grass aside from a select few paths that had most likely been there since the 1950s.

Wantirna has spaghetti type areas with long winding roads with hundreds of small dead-end courts miles from the small shopping area, mate is lucky that he can still get to the 901 without having to walk too far, although his local bus would technically be the 738 (he never uses it because of its hopeless frequency - hourly off-peak, half-hourly during peak and late starts on the weekend - it still runs until 9PM every day though, and on Sundays too, shock horror).

Anyway, apologies for derailing a Casey thread with stuff about Maroondah/Knox.
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Re: PTV: Proposed bus network upgrade for Casey

Postby Craig » Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:24 pm

Heihachi_73 wrote:Sounds like a typical case of 'Car Suburb' Syndrome. Do streets in Endeavour Hills look like spaghetti and lack footpaths too? I can't be bothered getting out the Melway to find out.


Too hard to log onto https://www.melbournebybus.com.au :?:

Comparing Endeavour Hills to the nearby newer parts of Hampton Park (east of Hallam Rd) and Rowville/Lysterfield which grew around the same era, the planners at the time did a reasonable job with the street layout - there are actually several wide drives that form a loose grid network, that the buses then adhere to. I'd even go as far as to suggest it gives Mill Park a run for it's money for the benchmark in 1980s/1990s street layouts.

A problem the suburb faces is that Dandenong is the local major centre, but it's not the most logical place for people to intersect to the rail network. So the current network works well for local travel but not for CBD commuters, those attending Monash Uni etc.

Some realistic improvements:
  • Extend 841 from Narre Warren North to Noble Park via Heatherton Rd (ultimately running select trips running all the way Southland - Cranbourne) with a 10 min headway in peaks, providing a more direct rail connection for those in both Endeavour Hills & Narre Warren North. This would see the limited 842 scrapped. Those on 845/849 loop can change buses at Endeavour Hills Shops.
  • Extend 861 to Hampton Park, incorporating the 863.
  • Furthermore, 861 should operate into Dandenong via Clow St, to serve the pool, hospital & TAFE (the ALP proposed a separate route at the 2010 election)
  • Full upgrade of all routes to minimum standards level (obviously!)

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Re: PTV: Proposed bus network upgrade for Casey

Postby krustyklo » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:54 pm

Comparing Endeavour Hills to the nearby newer parts of Hampton Park (east of Hallam Rd) and Rowville/Lysterfield which grew around the same era, the planners at the time did a reasonable job with the street layout - there are actually several wide drives that form a loose grid network, that the buses then adhere to. I'd even go as far as to suggest it gives Mill Park a run for it's money for the benchmark in 1980s/1990s street layouts.


Whilst I agree with your comments on the street layout, I would probably suggest the comments on the buses following the grid like roads is a little generous.
Using the https://www.melbournebybus.com.au website as you suggest, I can see the following routes (although given the map seems to show both the old and new network I might have gotten some routes confused, although it doesn't affect the basic premise of my argument):
  • 842 - The route through Endeavour Hills looks like the rolling surf on the beach at Botany Bay before quickly escaping to Fountain Gate by heading north then following the two sides of a right angled triangle that don't include the hypotenuse.
  • 843 - From Dandenong heads to the northern most connector road of Kennington Park Dve, before returning south to the shopping centre like an explorer of old finding a tropical island for safe harbour for the winter, then heads north again with favourable winds to the terminus in Shetland St.
  • 845 - heads north to Heatherton Rd then south to James Cook Dve then north to the terminus in Reema Ave. Sure it takes advantage of the major roads by wandering around them like a drunken sailor on the first expedition to Australia.
  • 849 - Is mostly direct with a few waggles either side of a straight line between where it enters the estate at Amalfi Dve and the terminus as if tacking against unfavourable winds. For a local type route it could be a lot worse.
  • 861 - The route is mostly direct except heads north to Heatherton Rd only to come back south to the same rolling waves as route 842.
So out of the 5 routes I can see on the map, 2 are reasonably direct following the "loose grid" and 3 follow significant roads for much of their length, but in a less than optimal fashion. To be fair to Heihachi, he probably has a point about a car-friendly road layout designed to maximise the number of people not living on a major road, and get them out to major roads and the freeway quickly. Whilst you are correct there is potential for the bus network to use this to its advantage, I honestly can't agree it is currently at that point with routes like the 845.
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Re: PTV: Proposed bus network upgrade for Casey

Postby burrumbus » Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:22 pm

Love your descriptors krustyklo.Quite accurate !!!
I have felt for years the Endeavour Hills services need a tune up with alternative destinations rather than funnelling pax into Dandenong.I agree with Craig that the area needs a closer rail connector-which is obviously Hallam
This is what I would do.
-815-Start Parkmore.Cheltenham Road,(R)Grayling,(L)Kingsclere,(R)Wahroonga,(L)Buckley),(R)Noble,(L)Leonard,(L)Douglas,(R)Heatherton,(R)Cleeland,(L)David,(L)Stud,(R)Heatherton,(R)Matthew Flinders to roundabout at Raymond/Daniel Solander,Return Matthew Flinders,(R)Heatherton,(R)Hallam North Road,Continue Belgrave-Hallam Road,Continue Hallam South Road to Hampton Park Shopping Centre.A 20 minute all day service.That gives 2 alternative routes out of Endeavour Hills,plus servicing Dandy Hospital,TAFE and the pool,plus a vastly improved service to Noble Park South.And on a quite direct route,which cuts right through the middle of Endeavour Hills..As can be seen from the route number I would discontinue the Dandy-Parkmore section of 815.
I don't think there is enough potential through patronage,and traffic generators along Heatherton Road from Noble Park through to Southland to justify a service there.
845-Leave Dandenong station,as per current route to Endeavour Hills Shopping Centre,Continue Matthew Flinders,(L)James Cook,(R)Hallam North Road,(L)Belgrave-Hallam Road,(R)Heatherton Road at Narre Warren North,(R)Memorial Drive,(L)Narre Warren North Road,(R)Overland into Fountain Gate,Continue Overland,(L)Princes Highway,(R)Webb ,(L)Rebound into Narre Warren Station.I would then run it over existing 841 to Cranbourne.40 all day service.Obviously this idea sees the 841 being discontinued.
-843-Start Dandenong Station,as per existing route to Kennington Park Drive,(R)Mossgiel Park Road,Continue Matthew Flinders,(L)Raymond,Continue McMahon,(R)John Fawkner,(L)Thomas Mitchell to terminate at Hallam North Road.Then continues as 847.40 minute all day service.
-847-Start Dandenong Station,as per existing 849 to Power Road/Amalfi,then (R)Amalfi,(R)James Cook,(L)Daniel Solander,(L)Matthew Flinders,Continue Mossgiel Park Drive,(R)Scotsburn,(L)Gleneagles,Continue Shetland,(L)Gleneagles,(R)Reema,,(R)Hallam North Road to Thomas Mitchell Drive.Terminate.Then continues as 843.40 minute all day service.
I think this route layout allows the suburb to be covered in 4 basically more direct routes,excepting the John Fawkner/Thomas Mitchell area.It gives 3 alternative destinations out of Endeavour Hills ,with Dandenong services still at a very acceptable 20 minute service.The loop feature of 843/847 effectively gives 3 buses an hour to Endeavour Hills Shopping Centre and to Dandenong.
My observations show the current Dandenong-Endeavour Hills group of 4 routes to have reasonable patronage.Certaintly on the better side of the average Melbourne route.
Thanks for reading.
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Re: PTV: Proposed bus network upgrade for Casey

Postby Leyland B21 » Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:25 pm

847 is a Berwick service currently!!!

I like the 815 idea. However on the Endeavour Hills section id take in the route 842 as well as you can then remove both 841 and 842.

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Re: PTV: Proposed bus network upgrade for Casey

Postby burrumbus » Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:26 pm

I also think another potential service could be a direct link from Cranbourne-Berwick.
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Re: PTV: Proposed bus network upgrade for Casey

Postby burrumbus » Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:29 pm

Leyland B21 wrote:847 is a Berwick service currently!!!

I like the 815 idea. However on the Endeavour Hills section id take in the route 842 as well as you can then remove both 841 and 842.

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You could renumber that 842 Leyland B21.
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Re: PTV: Proposed bus network upgrade for Casey

Postby Leyland B21 » Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:34 pm

Myself living off Webb street Narre Warren I personally believe a complete overhaul of local routes is needed along with better peak feeders serving Narre Warren Railway Station. But I've never sat down and analysed how this can be achieved. First thing in my books is grade separate Webb street and the railway to remove gridlock. Then focus on the bus network

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Re: PTV: Proposed bus network upgrade for Casey

Postby burrumbus » Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:38 pm

Leyland B21 wrote:847 is a Berwick service currently!!!

I like the 815 idea. However on the Endeavour Hills section id take in the route 842 as well as you can then remove both 841 and 842.

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I would take out the 842 as well.I think to attract pax to the 815 you need to make it as direct as possible.Hence my direct rouiting.,effectively through the middle of the suburb.
The 845 to Fountain Gate isn.t that far away from the current 842.
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Re: PTV: Proposed bus network upgrade for Casey

Postby tranzitjim » Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:01 pm

The only gridlock in Webb street, is when UP trains stop at the station, with the wigwags set for express trains.

We have got three bus routes, and mostly they turn up all at once, leaving nothing in a 30 minute gap operating between the station and Fountain Gate.

There needs to be an enhanced link between Narre warren R/S and Fountain Gate S/C, and better timetables with the current routes would do that, along with some more bus routes doing the same too.
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Re: PTV: Proposed bus network upgrade for Casey

Postby Leyland B21 » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:10 pm

I beg to differ. The traffic in peak predominately in Webb Street is a major issue. But then again what do I know. I'm only a local off a side street of Webb street. I tell it as I see it. The gridlock in peak is a problem. It can take up to 15 to 20 minutes by bus between centre road and Fountain Gate which ordinarily should be a 5 minute trip. I cannot count how many times I have experienced this and believe me. It's regular. Hence why I stand by my belief that a grade separation is needed before fixing local feeders like 834, 835, 841, 895. Again this is just my opinion but I see what I see on a daily basis

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Re: PTV: Proposed bus network upgrade for Casey

Postby TP1173 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:17 am

Gotta laugh. If the authority running the system can't seem to publish an announcement without the number of errors Craig pointed out, then you have to start questioning whether the network is too confusing. (And IMHO it is)

I'm not a transport planner, and I haven't been to Melbourne (since I was 1yo anyway), but if I had the opportunity to rebuild the Casey network I'd be pulling it to shreds. (And so that is exactly what I'm doing in my spare time lol)

While I'm here, I would love to know why Melbourne has this weird facination with this 40min frequency rubbish?!...
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Re: PTV: Proposed bus network upgrade for Casey

Postby 712M » Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:40 pm

burrumbus wrote:I also think another potential service could be a direct link from Cranbourne-Berwick.


There is plenty of demand for it. Just look at the traffic on Berwick-Cranbourne Road. It's quite ridiculous that it was included as part of the upgrades. I would suggest either extending the 798 to Berwick Station or the 899 into Cranbourne.
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Re: PTV: Proposed bus network upgrade for Casey

Postby krustyklo » Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:00 pm

While I'm here, I would love to know why Melbourne has this weird fascination with this 40min frequency rubbish?!...

In ye aulden days, 30 minutes was the standard for an average local route privileged to be better than hourly. On the other hand, Melbourne trains tend to run every 20 minutes. The aim is for buses to run in such a way as to connect well with trains, hence multiples of 20 minutes. Presumably 20 minutes is seen as over provision, so 40 minutes it is.

Of course, it would be interesting to see if said 40 minute frequency services genuinely connect to the 20 minute rail services they link to. It would also be interesting to see any data on whether particular routes have a predominance of people going to the station where it could potentially be justified that providing a slightly less frequent bus that has minimal connection time is better than a 30 minute frequency bus where 50% of the services have a greater than 12-15 minute waiting time between bus and train, or whether most people are going to other traffic generators (shopping centres, shopping strips, government services, other buses) where a downgraded service is less useful.

Of course, being Melbourne, other factors are less than straight forward. Some rail lines run every 15 minutes (Ringwood to the city, Glen Waverley), some every 30 (Belgrave and Lilydale to Ringwood), some every 10 (Frankston), and so on, thus meaning 20 or 40 minute services are less than optimal where they link rail lines with incompatible frequencies. At the moment the main areas with 40 minute frequencies are relatively self contained networks where routes link to only one station. For example, the new Plenty Valley sacrificed 30 minute all day frequencies (or equivalent) for 40 minutes off peak and weekends, and 20 minutes for peak and shoulder peak times. Whilst a 40 minute frequency is hardly exciting, a 20 minute peak service for the areas it serves is great and better than much of Melbourne, whilst the 40 minute weekend frequency is an improvement on the previous hourly, and again better than much of Melbourne, if still a borderline social service. And to be fair, the network seems to be timetabled to mostly connect to trains at South Morang and Greensborough. When I get holidays at the end of the year, I might try and do some sort of analysis on how well it does so, along with some of the other new networks.
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Re: PTV: Proposed bus network upgrade for Casey

Postby pakenhamtrain » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:07 pm

Leyland B21 wrote:I beg to differ. The traffic in peak predominately in Webb Street is a major issue.
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Indeed. Half the problem is the traffic lights at the Highway and at Shrives Rd/Fullard Rd. Traffic can be stopped on both sides of the crossing and a train can come through and nothing changes.
The end result can be traffic up the hill at up to the power lines at Shrives Rd.
More often than not it's faster to go Narre Warren-Cranbourne Rd and Centre/Fullard Rd.
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Re: PTV: Proposed bus network upgrade for Casey

Postby tranzitjim » Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:10 pm

As a local who uses Webb street myself, I have the following to say,

++ The railway crossing does not cause the delays.

++ Yes, there is too much traffic using Webb street.

++ There are needs to divert the road traffic.

Getting traffic to use the current dip under, needs simple roadworks around the corner of Shrives road and Center/Fullard road. Get Shrives road to bend towards the Fullard road and Cranbourne roads corner.

Also, improved traffic light sequence at that corner along with Cranbourne road and the highway. Currently driver complaints are, they wait too long to turn at these locations. You only need some green arrows to show up quickly, more than once in a cycle.
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