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Myki

Melbourne / Victoria Transport Discussion

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Re: Myki

Postby system improver » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:12 am

Roderick Smith wrote:I returned from Hobart on SV 'Enterprize'. One passenger was from Queensland. He had to reach a host in Strathmore.
The first tram from Collins St at Bourke St to Melbourne SC (to connect into a train) wasn't until ~5.40.
Luckily, this was in the free zone: he had no way of buying a senior myki until reaching the station. Is a senior myki fee? What minimum topup on purchase?

Roderick


A Senior myki is free but can only be obtained by Victorian Seniors i.e. to a Vic Seniors card holder. Interstate seniors can purchase a concession myki for $3. The minimum top up is $1. Are there not myki machines at the Collins Street stop? However, the continuing problem with myki is the decision of the Liberal National Baillieu government to withhold the installation of myki machines on trams. The machines had already been constructed and we had already paid for them and their installation. What happened? Alas, Bailieu kept the consultancy report secret and marked it Cabinet in Confidence so the current government can't release it for thirty years. The machines were stored in a warehouse but I have read that Napthine ordered them destroyed so that Labor could not install them. Is that true? If so, it is the worst act of vandalism in Australia's history.
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Re: Myki

Postby BroadGauge » Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:49 pm

system improver wrote:Is that true? If so, it is the worst act of vandalism in Australia's history.

Plenty of more important and prominent things have been destroyed in Australia than a bunch of tram ticket machines.
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Re: Myki

Postby moa999 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:38 pm

And yet Sydney's Opal works fine with no topup machines or even validators on the light rail (poles are on the platform with topup machines now mostly installed) and no ability to top-up on buses.

The old Melbourne machines always had pax blocking others trying to buy the tickets. Good riddance.
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Re: Myki - tram troubles

Postby Roderick Smith » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:30 am

In the blog version, a spin doctor from PTV suggested topping up before leaving home. Wait till that arrogant official tries to buy a burger at a fast-food joint which has gone cashless: 'No, we can't sell you a burger; you should have topped up your burger card online before leaving home'.
Roderick.

March 16 2017 Melbourne's myki retailers: Where is the nearest place to top up my myki?
Scroll down to find the distance from your tram stop to the nearest myki machine.
They are the myki dead zones - the tram stops where the nearest place to top up your myki is at least a kilometre away.
Melbourne's worst myki dead zone .
This tram stop is 1.5 kilometres from the nearest shop where you can top up your myki. Data journalist Craig Butt found this out the hard way.
And if you live near Plenty Road in Bundoora and rely on the route 86 tram, you're in the worst spot in Melbourne.
The stop at the corner of Plenty Road and Greenwood Drive is the worst myki dead zone in Victoria for trams. If you forget your card or are out of credit, it's a 1.5 kilometre walk to the nearest post office to top up.
graphic.
The worst dead zones include the stop opposite St George's Hospital in Kew on route 109; the stop outside the Toorak Uniting Church on route 8; and the end of the line on route 57.
If you do not have any credit on your myki you are expected to take reasonable steps to top up, but from these locations you rack up at least 1200 paces to get to the nearest store or machine.
Using the interactive below, you can detect myki dead zones on your tram line and find out where the nearest myki retailer is, in case you ever find yourself short on credit.
Just enter in your tram route and select your stop to bring up the distance, as the crow flies, to your nearest top-up point. Are you in the middle of a myki desert?
The colour scale changes depending on the tram route and should not be used to compare tram lines. (Scroll down for a map showing myki retailer distance for all tram routes).
But keep in mind the opening times of the retailer. When we trekked 1.5 kilometres through Melbourne's biggest myki desert on a scorching 31 degree day to top up at Bundoora Post Office, we were fortunate enough to get there half an hour before closing time.
But we would have been out of luck after 5pm that afternoon, after midday on Saturday, or when it is closed all day on Sunday.
About 95 per cent of the state's 800-plus myki retail outlets are open on Saturday, 75 per cent on Sunday and 32.5 per cent are open all hours. There are also myki-dispensing machines at railway stations and premium trams stops, which are available 24/7.
And while you can't top up on a tram, you can on a bus. So if you're at the Greenwood Drive tram stop, you could wait for the 382 bus then ask the driver to top up your card. But with buses at 40-minute intervals, you could be in for a lengthy wait.
Daniel Bowen of the Public Transport Users Association said the inability to top up on a tram has been a problem ever since myki was introduced.
"Myki was originally planned to include ticket machines on-board trams. It's never been explained why this was scrapped, and it would make sense for the government to revisit this decision," he said.
"While it's true that online options are available, it can take hours for an online top-up to take effect," he said. "This is particularly problematic for older Victorians, who may not have internet access."
Public Transport Victoria spokesman Jake McLaughlan said recent improvements to the myki system such as faster online top-ups and contactless payment options had made it easier for passengers.
He said the government had also introduced a simpler and fairer fare enforcement system that targets repeat fare evaders and provides more discretion to passengers who make every reasonable attempt to travel with a valid myki.
Is this discretion being used by ticket inspectors? If you live near a myki desert you'll probably be about to find out.
Or email data journalist Craig Butt directly: craig.butt@theage.com.au.
Map of entire tram network.
This map of the entire tram zone shows myki deserts in red. If you click a tram stop, a box will appear showing the distance to the nearest retailer and the distance to the nearest bus stop (where you can get the bus driver to top up your card). The scale on this map is fixed so it allows for comparisons between tram routes.
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/melbo ... us8x7.html
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Re: Myki

Postby Roderick Smith » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:39 pm

Myki users get refunds for touching on in Melbourne free tram zone.
Herald Sun March 21, 2017.
TRAM passengers are swiping away money in Free Tram Zones with almost 800 people asking for refunds.
But the Public Transport Users Association says many passengers didn’t know they could get a refund for touching on in the Free Tram Zone and fear the real number is much higher.
Almost $3000 has been clawed back from savvy passengers once they realised their mistake.
PTUA President Tony Morton said anyone with accidentally touched on in the Free Tram Zone was entitled to a refund and that policy should be pointed out prominently.
“I guess the potential for confusion is always there and we don’t always send out clear messages on when to touch on and off,” Mr Morton said.
“I know there is still some confusion among regular travellers let alone visitors.
“There is now luminous signage advising people of the Free Tram Zone but people can still miss it.
Almost $3000 has been clawed back from savvy passengers once they realised their mistake. Picture: Supplied.
“The refund policy for accidentally touching on could be better pointed out but I expect it’s in lots of people interests not to offer too many refunds if possible.”
Since the introduction of the Free Tram Zone at the start of 2015, Public Transport Victoria has processed 787 refunds totalling $2998 to passengers who accidentally touched on.
PTV says the number of refunds has decreased each year as passengers have become more familiar with the Free Tram Zone.
PTV spokesman Nicholas White said research shows that awareness of the Free Tram Zone is very high among visitors with 72 per cent of domestic and 78 per cent of international visitors understanding the policy.
“We’re pleased to see so many locals and visitors using Melbourne’s iconic trams in the Free Tram Zone to explore the city,” Mr White said.
PTV says it is continuing to educate passengers about the Free Tram Zone through driver announcements, signage at tram stops both within and outside the zone, information at myki machines, customer service officers, and special products for tourists at information centres and hotels.
The boundaries of the Free Tram Zone are Spring St, Flinders St and La Trobe St.
Additionally, the tram routes along Victoria St, William St and Elizabeth St that surround Victoria Market are also included, as well as the Docklands area.
Related content:
• Myki price rise: Public transport users slugged extra from January 1.
• Scratch your own: the 80s train ticket that was a Melbourne fare evaders dream.
• Myki upgrade to slug taxpayers $50m.
www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/myki ... 504e4381c5
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Re: Myki

Postby neilrex » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:21 pm

It seems very strange that in Melbourne you cannot buy a burger if you don't have a car with you.
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Re: Myki

Postby Roderick Smith » Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:49 pm

In other words 'dex', cave in to management, which is interested only in its own convenience. The fare structure is good, the ticketing and payment aspects are abysmal.
Years ago, your sentiment appeared in the immortal phrase: 'Close your eyes, and think of England'.

Roderick

March 31 2017 App developer has a fix for one of myki's most frustrating problems .
Melbourne app developer Long Zheng is on a mission. To "make myki great again".
To which some might reply: was it ever great?
App mypal lets you top-up myki on your mobile. Photo: Supplied .
But Mr Zheng is earnest, and genuinely wants to help. This week he released a free app that solves a key gripe for myki users: topping up using a mobile phone.
Despite it being 2017, Public Transport Victoria does not offer a mobile-friendly website for commuters to top up myki cards. The existing website forces users on phones to awkwardly tap, zoom, and input text in tiny fields.
Long Zheng, shown here wearing a Google Glass. Photo: Supplied .
"I use public transport every day, and so do my friends," Mr Zheng said. "They are always complaining about topping up, how hard it is to use the website. It would just be a whole lot easier if they could do it from the app.
"What you see on the mobile is the desktop webpage. It's quite difficult to zoom about and put text in the tiny fields."
Mr Zheng's app, mypal, makes it easy.
Users add their myki, allowing them to see their live balance. They can then tap a button to top-up on the go. The app does not add any additional functionality – it simply takes PTV's website and makes it mobile-friendly.
"What I'm doing is a mobile version of their site. What you do, what you look at, is all from the myki app," Mr Zheng said.
Unfortunately, top up isn't instant – it takes 90 minutes for PTV's servers to process a transaction and update a card.
A spokesman for PTV said the department was working on reducing top-up processing time and building a mobile-friendly version of the myki top-up page.
At the moment mypal is only available for Android. Apple has refused to list it in its app store. Mr Zheng says he was told by Apple they would only authorise the app if it was officially supported by PTV.
Fairfax has revealed that commuters in so-called myki "dead zones" in some parts of Melbourne have to walk at least 1.5 kilometres to find a myki machine to top up.
www.theage.com.au/technology/technology ... vawvr.html
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Re: Myki

Postby dex » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:38 pm

Roderick Smith wrote:In other words 'dex', cave in to management, which is interested only in its own convenience. The fare structure is good, the ticketing and payment aspects are abysmal.
Years ago, your sentiment appeared in the immortal phrase: 'Close your eyes, and think of England'.


You cave in to management because they employ you, PTV nor Myki pay my wages.
My daily cruiser is a two-door turbo merc.
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Re: Myki

Postby simonl » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:51 am

The fare structure is idiotic, Roderick.
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Re: Myki

Postby Roderick Smith » Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:37 pm

The fare structure is not idiotic. Idiotic is distance based (notably Sydney, which also fails on multimodal).
Melbourne's structure started simply: time-based multimodal, on three zones. That is the only way for public transport to compete with private motoring.
On a system the size of Melbourne, flat fare is futile.
However, political pork barrelling has damaged the neat scheme. Labor removed zone 3, and then panicked about patronage with which the system couldn't cope. Liberal then capped the new zone 2 at zone 1 fares, and created a useless free zone.
What should have happed was adding a new zone 4 to the logical commuter destinations beyond zone 3, notably Mornington Peninsula and Warburton.

170623F Melbourne 'Herald Sun' - myki.

Roderick.
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Re: Myki - tram troubles

Postby Liamena » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:35 pm

Roderick Smith wrote: Wait till that arrogant official tries to buy a burger at a fast-food joint which has gone cashless: 'No, we can't sell you a burger; you should have topped up your burger card online before leaving home'.



I find the propensity of Melbourne burger joints to refuse to sell a burger to a person who shows up without a car, to be a bigger problem.
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Re: Myki

Postby Liamena » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:38 pm

Roderick Smith wrote:The fare structure is not idiotic. Idiotic is distance based (notably Sydney, which also fails on multimodal).
Melbourne's structure started simply: time-based multimodal, on three zones. That is the only way for public transport to compete with private motoring.


But the incremental costs of driving, mainly fuel but also incremental wear and tear on tyres and other parts, and hastening the day of the next oil change and other services, are mainly proportional to distance.

Melbourne's system is not that great. It's quite annoying to pay vastly different fares for a trip from Frankston to Broadmeadows to the Airport, depending on when the various trains and buses actually show up.
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Re: Myki - tram troubles

Postby notch » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Liamena wrote:
Roderick Smith wrote: Wait till that arrogant official tries to buy a burger at a fast-food joint which has gone cashless: 'No, we can't sell you a burger; you should have topped up your burger card online before leaving home'.



I find the propensity of Melbourne burger joints to refuse to sell a burger to a person who shows up without a car, to be a bigger problem.


This has to be the strangest reply to a Roderick rant yet.
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Re: Myki

Postby Heihachi_73 » Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:28 am

That has to be the worst two things, not being able to top up a myki (due to the one and only top-up area being in the most useless place on Earth: a 9-5 post office), and being refused service at a takeaway restaurant for walking up to a drive-thru window because you are not in a car. McDonald's is also worthy of mention for refusing to offer normal meals during their "breakfast" period, at least Hungry Jack's doesn't have that stupid restriction.
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Re: Myki

Postby notch » Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:13 am

Is there some sort of intellectual defect that prevents bunzels from just going inside the McChucks to order, like fully functioning members of society have figured out?
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Re: Myki

Postby krustyklo » Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:33 pm

Is there some sort of intellectual defect that prevents bunzels from just going inside the McChucks to order, like fully functioning members of society have figured out?

Not that I have ever used the facility, but many / most McDonalds outlets (and probably their main competitor) which operate 24/7 close the restaurant for the overnight part, only serving customers from the drive through (presumably for the same sort of security reasons a lot of 24/7 service stations do the same thing after about 10pm). The same issue affects non-bunzels without cars as well.
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Re: Myki

Postby simonl » Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:04 pm

Roderick Smith wrote:The fare structure is not idiotic. Idiotic is distance based (notably Sydney, which also fails on multimodal).
Melbourne's structure started simply: time-based multimodal, on three zones. That is the only way for public transport to compete with private motoring.
On a system the size of Melbourne, flat fare is futile.
However, political pork barrelling has damaged the neat scheme. Labor removed zone 3, and then panicked about patronage with which the system couldn't cope. Liberal then capped the new zone 2 at zone 1 fares, and created a useless free zone.
What should have happed was adding a new zone 4 to the logical commuter destinations beyond zone 3, notably Mornington Peninsula and Warburton.

170623F Melbourne 'Herald Sun' - myki.

Roderick.

You are referring to what the fare structure was, not what it is. Political action has caused the fare structure to go backwards. Even back in the day, why on earth would these features exist:
- the fare structure finish at Werribee for rail, 31.7km from Southern Cross.
- no off peak discount except before 7am
- manually added periodicals

I'm sure there's more.

Please explain how Melbourne's fare structure is less idiotic than Sydney's, post the transfer discount???
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Re: Myki

Postby Roderick Smith » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:01 am

Roderick.

Myki ticketing: Tap-and-go technology a touch late for Melbourne’s commuters.
Herald Sun July 23, 2017.
•$700m myki contract renewed before review
•The myki upgrade you’ve been waiting for
•Refunds for ‘touch on’ in free tram zone
VICTORIANS are no closer to knowing when Melbourne’s myki system will be adapted to allow passengers to use contactless technologies to touch on.
Public Transport Victoria says it is still “investigating” how to modify myki to allow passengers to use credit cards and smart phones to touch on despite other world leading cities already embracing the technology.
Contactless payment systems have been in use in London since June 2015.
They have also been trialled or implemented on parts of the network in other major cities such as New York.
A myki quick top up machine in action at Domain Interchange.
Current myki operator NTT Data is required to work with PTV to investigate new and emerging technologies that can improve the system as part of a new $700m, seven-year agreement, which began last July.
However the delivery and funding of contactless payment systems is not part of its contract to run the myki system and would see taxpayers’ slugged $50 million to allow passengers to use mobile phone and credit cards at turnstiles.
PTV spokesman Jake McLaughlan said it was still “investigating” the ability for passengers to touch on and off with contactless payment systems.
With technology ever changing, PTV says it needs to consider the challenges of rapid obsolescence and ensure any enhancements made don’t make the system less reliable, accessible or equitable.
“Last year we upgraded all myki vending machines to feature contactless payment to make it easier and quicker for passengers to top up their myki,” he said.
“We are investigating additional contactless technology, including the ability for passengers to touch on and off with their credit card or smart phone.”
Public Transport Users Association president Tony Morton said commuters would welcome the move, but didn’t think it would happen any time soon.
“I think PTV have higher priorities just keeping the whole network ticking over,” Dr Morton said.
“It’s fair to say that other cities have had the jump on us on this.
“In London it works really well and you don’t even need to register, you can just walk up to the gate with your credit card and pay the default fare.
“I would welcome it for Melbourne providing it can be implemented in a reasonable time frame and cost but there are question marks over how long it will take.”
PTV says it has delivered significant improvements to the myki ticketing system in recent months including faster myki readers and quick top up machines at some of its busiest stations and stops on the network, including on-board E-Class trams.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victor ... 8479e95f0b
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