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Secret Proposal Leaked To Construct Elevated Rail Line!!!

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Re: Secret Proposal Leaked To Construct Elevated Rail Line!!

Postby Roderick Smith » Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:12 am

There are three groups which should never be allowed near public transport: urban designers, architects, Major Projects Victoria. Self-indulgent types, seeking to make 'statements' to impress peers.
An opinion piece in Thurs.14.1.16 Melbourne 'Herald Sun'.

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Re: Secret Proposal Leaked To Construct Elevated Rail Line!!

Postby Alex on the Bus » Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:35 pm

Roderick Smith wrote:There are three groups which should never be allowed near public transport: urban designers, architects, Major Projects Victoria. Self-indulgent types, seeking to make 'statements' to impress peers.


"These people have knowledge and expertise in this area. I only have feels. Therefore they should go to hell and you should only listen to me..." :P
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Re: Secret Proposal Leaked To Construct Elevated Rail Line!!

Postby Roderick Smith » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:57 pm

Look at what they have done. The disaster stations at Laverton, Williams Landing, Footscray, Sunshine, Keon Park. The destruction of Flinders St station, with fossilised impediments to future travel. The luckily abandoned million-dollar competition to bowdlerise Flinders St station. Did you even go to the exhibition 2 years ago, sponsored by PTV and an urban-design faculty, to design mega-statement elevated stations with no level of future proofing. The hapless students had to jump through the hoops. First and foremost, transport facilities have to work for transport, and not for ego tripping.
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Re: Secret Proposal Leaked To Construct Elevated Rail Line!!

Postby krustyklo » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:59 pm

The disaster stations at Laverton, Williams Landing, Footscray, Sunshine, Keon Park.

I agree Keon Park is nothing special in any sense of the word, but I suspect its heritage owes less to urban planners and more to cheap railway station design in the 1970s (? - I have a vague recollection the previous building burnt down in the 70s / early 80s) with the expectation of providing the bare minimum for a declining passenger base as was allegedly the policy then. I doubt anyone vaguely related to urban planners or Major Projects Victoria had anything to do with it, and I suspect the VR architect's brief was cheap, minimalist and maintenance free. I doubt the VR architect considered it a vanity project...

To be fair, Keon Park is actually an ugly but usable station with relatively easy interchange to the 902, less easy interchange to the 555 but not unreasonable except for crossing over High St / Keon Pde for northbound buses, but most passengers heading in that direction are likely to walk to any of the factories just north of there, or get off at Thomastown.
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Re: Secret Proposal Leaked To Construct Elevated Rail Line!!

Postby Craig » Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:15 pm

Some articles on a possible Frankston sky-train from this week's Frankston Times.

Mornington Peninsula News Group wrote:Sky-rail plan not done deal
January 18, 2016
Neil Walker

PLANS to remove level crossings along the Frankston line using elevated rail are still up in the air according to the state government.

Plans for a so-called ‘suburban sky-rail’, with rail lines raised two storeys above street level, have been submitted to the government during the tender process for the Dandenong rail corridor upgrade.

There are suggestions elevated rail could be built at southern sections of the Frankston line including Carrum and Bonbeach.

Underground water close to Port Phillip Bay and Patterson River may mean tunnelling is not a viable option at some level crossing intersections.

Labor Public Transport Minister Jacinta Allan says no final decision has yet been made on whether rail will be elevated at any point along the Frankston line.

“We promised to remove the eight remaining dangerous and congested level crossings on the Frankston line, and we are still considering the best way to do that,” Ms Allan said.

“Consultation with local residents will take place this year, and will inform how the dangerous and congested level crossings on the Frankston line will be removed.”

Liberal opposition spokesman for planning David Davis said bayside voters should have been consulted about “a railway line high in the air” before last year’s state election.

“It would be visually unappealing near Melbourne’s great beach assets and will have an extraordinary impact on those who live near it with deafening sound,” Mr Davis said.

“It is an option that was not laid on the table before the election and no-one voted for this.”

An office of the Victorian Government Architect report released in 2014 found an elevated road or rail structure is “often a cheaper solution” but “will have a significant physical presence and impact on a place” (‘Elevated rail debate’, The Times 15/6/15).

RMIT University lecturer on urban design Ian Woodcock told The Times last year he believed elevated rail lines are a good solution since they free up land for other uses underneath the rail line.

“You can use the land for all kinds of stuff. You can create open public land there,” Mr Woodcock said.

“You can put shops around the station area and integrate it better with the neighbourhood. There’s potentially a huge public benefit with elevated rail at the right locations.”

Mr Davis acknowledged elevated rail may be the best option at some, but not all, level crossing sites.

“Nobody is arguing that there’s no location where this may be part of what’s required but this is being proposed as a solution on several lines for long distances and it’s clearly going for the cheapest option,” he said.

“Cost control is important but not at the expense of long-term outcomes. These level crossing removals … are a once in a century change and it has to be done right.

“There has not been genuine community consultation on this.”

The Labor state government had pledged to separate 50 level crossings across Victoria within eight years including eleven along the Frankston line.

Frankston Council acting CEO Tim Frederico said council had been briefed on grade separation projects “but there has been no discussion regarding a raised rail network”.

RACV public policy general manager Brian Negus has said all options must be looked at to separate rail from road at level crossing intersections.

“Two examples where elevated rail solutions may well be the superior alternative are the Dandenong and Frankston corridors.

“The key to finding the right solution is through good planning and urban design and consultation with the community.”


Kind Regards


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Re: Secret Proposal Leaked To Construct Elevated Rail Line!!

Postby Alex on the Bus » Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:07 pm

Thank you, Uncle Rod, for outing yourself as an operative from Exhibition Street with your presumption that my mockery had a political basis. I therefore can safely assume that elevating the Dandenong corridor would have been far from a disaster and actually a triumph of engineering and aesthetics if only it had been implemented by Metro under their plan to hold the Metropolitan Trains franchise to ransom that your chums came so close to agreeing to prior to the last election.
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Re: Secret Proposal Leaked To Construct Elevated Rail Line!!

Postby krustyklo » Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:11 am

PLANS to remove level crossings along the Frankston line using elevated rail are still up in the air according to the state government.

I see what you did there :lol:

Liberal opposition spokesman for planning David Davis said bayside voters should have been consulted about “a railway line high in the air” before last year’s state election.

Seems they were - they certainly voted for level crossing removal. I don't recall voters being given a definitive plan to build a divisive trench either, or in opposition speak "an ugly gash through the community dividing neighbour from neighbour", they merely voted to remove level crossings.

“It would be visually unappealing near Melbourne’s great beach assets and will have an extraordinary impact on those who live near it with deafening sound,” Mr Davis said.

Really? Given how flat it is there, how much of the beach can people east of the line see now?

As for deafening sound, where do I start? Outside my front window is a road and a railway line running parallel. The train makes a small discernible noise every 20 minutes each way during the day. The traffic noise is constant from 6am to 7pm. Luckily the road is far enough away it isn't "deafening" (it's the other side of the railway), but it is more noticeable than the railway line (surprisingly I must admit). The worst I saw when house hunting was a house backing onto Diamond Creek Rd. In the back of the house it was noisy, and once you walked out the back door into the back yard, it was "deafening".

So, Mr Davis, who was it who proposed building roads in trenches and on elevated sections in the inner city? As a road tends to be noisier than a railway line, if a railway line is "deafening" then your government proposed a solution that was more than deafening in East-West link. Which is it, Mr Davis - are elevated transport links deafening or not, and if they are why did you propose one in government? Hypocrite!

“It is an option that was not laid on the table before the election and no-one voted for this.”

Yawn. Like the Liberal East-West link then?

“There has not been genuine community consultation on this.”

As Ms Allan says, there will be in due course. Of course, one can well be cynical about community consultations - how much was done for other large recent transport projects such as, I don't know, East-West Link, and how genuine was any consultation? Maybe we could consider lower stakes projects like the Transdev proposed network? How much "genuine" community consultation occurred there? I attended one of the consultation sessions and it seemed more like being told what was going to happen than genuinely invited to inform it, which was the observation of another board member at the time too. Who was the government who awarded that contract and was in charge of overseeing the process? Mr Davis' mob I believe.

Before I get accused of being partisan, I am not a member of any party, nor am I likely to be any time soon. However, Mr Davis seems to be opposing for the sake of opposing - the Tony Abbott approach. In the case of Mr Abbott, it was a successful strategy because it continued to damage an already damaged government. In Mr Davis' case, I can't see it being a successful strategy as the Labour government thus far is perceived quite well in the community, and would be best off pointing to its record of starting to do things and ignoring Mr Davis, which is what it seems to be doing so far.

I also don't see the community at large being that interested yet in opposition for the sake of opposition with wild claims from Mr Davis. He may well be better holding his fire until something concrete gets proposed, then starting the scare campaign then.

Getting back to the benefits of elevated rail, media comments seem mostly favourable so far, surprisingly. Frankly I would be more than happy if the line outside the front of my house got raised - there'd be less noise (it is currently in a small trench with noise carrying up to my house) and it would mean a 20 second walk to a bus stop instead of a 5 and a half minute walk to the nearest bridge and stop nearest there. Plus access to all the shops on the other side of the road and a safe crossing point (which the stop I have to use doesn't currently have). Unfortunately there isn't a level crossing between Eltham and Macleod to justify it...
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Re: Secret Proposal Leaked To Construct Elevated Rail Line!!

Postby Roderick Smith » Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:34 pm

It isn't just privacy: it is visual blight. Not one person yet has gone to their back yard, taken a photo, and then doctored it to show a four track viaduct double height: there 24/7, train or no. People keep citing trams in the sky, and in totalitarian countries where governments can and do ride roughshod over citizens. They also put up photos of single-height elevation, not the double which is proposed.
Do compare what is proposed for Melbourne with like for like.

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Re: Secret Proposal Leaked To Construct Elevated Rail Line!!

Postby notch » Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:35 pm

Alex: Uncle Rod is a rather well known retired rail magazine editor. Which reminds me, is RNV still going in someone else's hand, Roderick?


Backyards is a fairly NIMBYish issue.

Vic Park to North Richmond is similar in as much as you can see backyards clearly, though, Been a while since I've been to Balaclava by train, but if memory serves it's high enough to see over fences for the brief period of time a train flashes past. I'm surprised Roderick hasn't drawn parallels to US elevated freeways and the effects it had on division of suburbs on socio-economic lines. That's my objection to massive elevations of rail and roads - it divides areas rather neatly, for example CityLink excising the Housing Commission from Parkville.
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Re: Secret Proposal Leaked To Construct Elevated Rail Line!!

Postby Heihachi_73 » Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:42 am

More anti-skyrail NIMBYs were featured in the Hun (yesterday's, since it's past 2AM as of typing), this time from Clayton.
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Re: Secret Proposal Leaked To Construct Elevated Rail Line!!

Postby Alex on the Bus » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:01 am

I am aware of Rod's standing, albeit in the past couple of days through other channels.

Having a closer look at the Dandenong corridor itself, it can be safely assumed that the civil engineering component of the upgrade - the bit where the grade separations will be delivered - will occur in three sections: Grange Road to Poath Road (Caulfield East, Carnegie, Murrumbeena, Hughesdale), Clayton Road to Centre Road (Clayton) and Corrigan Road to Chandler Road (Noble Park). The latter two sections may be an easier sell for elevating the rail as, for the most part, the railway reserve is flanked by either roads (for the most part) or non-residential development. In the case of Corrigan-Chandler there may be no other option but to elevate as the line crosses Mile Creek quite close (~ 240 metres) to the Chandler Road crossing. The issue with the Grange-Poath section is that there are quite a few residential properties that back onto the railway reserve - of most concern being those properties on the southern side of the line, where overshadowing (especially during winter) may cause problems.

Also worth noting is the topography of the line through those sections (elevations quoted based on the MMBW/Melbourne Water contour data used in the Land Channel interactive map). Grange-Poath starts at about 47 metres ASL (50 metres if we pull it back to Caulfield Junction), gently drops to 44 metres at Murrumbeena Road, dipping down to 39 metres at Murrumbeena Drain (albeit with the railway at 42 metres on an embankment) before climbing back up to 49 metres at Poath Road (52 metres at Paddington Road). Elevating the line would make good use of those descents leading into the section instead of compounding the grades if lowering the line occurred instead. Clayton-Centre starts at 59 metres (60 metres at Flora Road/Prince Charles Street) and gently drops to 54 metres (53 metres at Aonach Street/Milton Avenue), so it's six-of-one-half-dozen-of-the-other. Corrigan-Chandler starts at 39 metres (44 metres at Lawn Road), drops down to 30 metres at the Mile Creek bridge (the creek being 27 metres ASL) then stays near level to Chandler Road (31 metres approaching Yarraman Station). Again this means that elevating the line can make use of a falling grade entering the section at the up end, firming the case for elevation through Noble Park.

Anyway, that's my closer look at the affected areas, and that's without being able to examine such things at water table heights or soil types. (And for those who think I have too much time on my hands, I have an hour's commute from Geelong to Southern Cross to waste...)
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Re: Blatant proposal to construct elevated rail lines.

Postby Roderick Smith » Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:53 am

I looked about three years ago. What neither route should do is go up down up down up down... or down up down up down up...
Once up, stay up; once down, stay down. The problem with elevation is the visual blight, far more than the inability to sunbake naked in one's own yard.
All of the management apologists keep quoting elevated trams in arterial road medians; they are not quoting multitrack mainlines with suburban trains the size or Melbourne's and with diesel-hauled freight trains.
My council has strict rules re overshadowing when building house extensions. The quangos' concept breaches them all.

I looked at the easement through Carnegie a few years ago: the only blocker to a four-track trench was a commercial property at the level crossing, and it is engineeringly easy to cantilever the driveway over the outermost track.
Likewise the constantly-changing rules of DoT/DoI/PTV: What could hold four tracks years ago has been changed by us to need more clearance.
The beauty of trenching is that every tight spot (including backyards and station carparking) can be cantilevered over the outermost tracks.

Any solution which doesn't allow for a four track future is a failure even before the first dollar is spent.

Appended is the progress to yesterday, and a photo to give you some concept of the visual blight. I could spend the time with photoshop to give a more-accurate effect, but really the apologists should be proving their case.

Roderick

Angry families on Pakenham Cranbourne line launch anti skytrain fight.
January 20, 2016 Herald Sun.
•Skytrain plan for Pakenham Cranbourne outlined in secret plans
•Opinion: Skytrains lift us out of the trenches ANGRY families who fear they will be forced to live in the shadow of a proposed suburban skytrain have launched a campaign against the controversial proposal.
Residents along the Pakenham and Cranbourne lines say there has been a lack of consultation about level crossing removals near their homes, which could see train lines elevated to two storeys above street level.
This month the Herald Sun revealed those skytrain designs had been submitted to the Andrews Government — which hasn’t ruled out the option — as a cheaper way to remove up to nine of the level crossings along Melbourne’s busiest rail corridor.
Carnegie mother of two Karlee Browning said people from her street, which is next to the rail line, were stunned.
Ms Browning and husband Mark wrote to Premier Daniel Andrews to warn of a potential eyesore, saying they wanted to counter what urban design expert Ian Woodcock put forward as potential positives, such as shops and parkland under elevated tracks.
“I need to bring to your attention what really happens beneath railway and freeway bridges: drug deals, crime ghettos, stolen cars and discarded household goods are just the beginning,” the letter says.
Ms Browning told the Herald Sun an online petition had been started against a skytrain.
“We have been lied to, we have been hoodwinked.”
Opposition planning spokesman David Davis said Mr Andrews should rule out a “cheap and nasty” sky rail that would hurt families “with deafening noise”.
Spokesman for acting Public Transport Minister Luke Donnellan, Bob Neilson, said Labor “promised to remove every level crossing between Dandenong and Caulfield and we are still considering the best way to do that”.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victor ... 74dd07b899


Skytrains lift us out of the trenches.
January 13, 2016 Herald Sun.
Elevated rail can give our city many more benefits if done well.’
DESIGN proposals for major projects like level crossing removals can often bewilder us. We shake our heads and ask: “If that’s the answer, what was the question?”
Public debate becomes tangled, details blow out of proportion, issues are distorted and party-political pointscoring obscures what’s really at stake.
If we get careless about how we discuss such issues, we risk compromising our future for short-term gain and long-term mediocrity. Level crossing removals are about much more than congestion-busting our roads. They will do more to improve public transport than the Melbourne Metro rail tunnel.
Victorians have long voted for better public transport. Community consultation over the past two decades shows improving public transport is the highest priority. But managing road congestion is important, too. We can fix both by focusing on the pinch-points where they share space — for trains at level crossings and for trams and buses travelling at snail’s pace on already busy roads. Level crossings don’t just cause traffic congestion, they severely restrict our ability to improve public transport. They limit how many trains can run and hamper reliability of buses and trams.
Melbourne has more than 170 level crossings 116 of them are used by buses and, until yesterday, four were used by trams. “Smart buses” have routes planned to avoid level crossings, but that isn’t possible for the rest and better feeder bus services will be crucial to making the most of costly improvements to passenger rail like Melbourne Metro.
Both major parties took schemes for rail tunnels beneath the city to the last election, so whoever you voted for, level crossing removals are needed in large numbers to make their plans work. And both major parties promised to remove large numbers of level crossings, too, with only minor differences over which ones to get rid of. We shouldn’t waste energy arguing about which ones to remove; we need to urge whoever is in power to remove as many as possible, as fast as we can. So the question is: how can the way we remove these crossing make the most difference, to give us the best return on our investment?
Because most level crossings are next to stations, their removal is not just about improving traffic flow. It is also about stations and how they can better connect communities. Stations connect us when we change from being a pedestrian to being a train passenger, or when we change from the train to a bus, tram, bike or car.
Stations generate large amounts of pedestrians, so integrating stations with local retail and community precincts improves economic and community life. That is where good planning and design really matters, to ensure we maximise ground-level connectivity, as well as access into and around the station. A station that integrates lively shops and cafes will be a safer and more pleasant place than one patrolled by armed police.
Under current plans, at least 35 stations are affected by level crossing removals and we need to obtain maximum benefit from the enormous capital investment.
TUNNELS are not economically viable unless they are in the CBD or other areas of very high land value. That leaves four options: road over or underpasses and elevated or trenched rail. The 1960s and 70s legacies of roads over or under the rail at places such as Oakleigh, Huntingdale, Footscray, Sunshine and Newport have lead to divided communities, closed shops and dark passageways.
Lowering or raising the rail lines is the only acceptable option for activity centres. Lowering the tracks only worsens the disconnection rail lines already create.
Trenches can be several hundred metres long and must be lined with anti-suicide fencing. Decking is extremely expensive and in most suburbs development at any scale will not recover costs. If we elevate the railway, we maximise ground level connectivity by releasing the public land in the rail reserve. The space under the viaduct can be used for commerce and recreation integrated with stations. It also allows the flexibility for optimal transfers to buses or trams, bikes or cars.
These are not new ideas; look at Glenferrie and Auburn, in the heart of Melbourne’s most desirable areas, and many other elevated stations in the inner north, south and east. While a hundred years ago they raised Melbourne’s railways using embankments, today elegant viaducts are a better answer and the longer the viaducts, the more the benefits. We can have linear parks, walking trails and bike paths connecting communities along the line as well as across it.
Elevated rail is common around the world, so the technical design benefits are well-understood. The noise of level crossing bells, tooting trains and poorly-maintained tracks would disappear and sound transmission is easily limited. Higher viaducts mean better views for passengers and greater visual privacy for adjacent property, not to mention more natural light and amenity. Elevated rail can minimise disruption during construction and attractive, visible stations are good for way-finding.
Beauty is in the eyes of beholders, though perhaps more will agree a well-designed viaduct looks a lot better than a concrete trench lined with anti-suicide fences.
Elevated rail can give our city many more benefits if done well, rather than merely removing local traffic obstacles. So when we ask ourselves whether skytrains are a good idea, let’s focus on how to give Melburnians improved public transport, better stations, more public open space and better connected communities, as well as less congested roads.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinio ... ae4d35a6ac
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Re: Secret Proposal Leaked To Construct Elevated Rail Line!!

Postby V981 » Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:52 pm

krustyklo wrote:
PLANS to remove level crossings along the Frankston line using elevated rail are still up in the air according to the state government.

I see what you did there :lol:

.


Haha. So I guess we can all assume that if the elevated rail option is chosen, the underground proposal will be buried?
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Re: Secret Proposal Leaked To Construct Elevated Rail Line!!

Postby Alex on the Bus » Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:35 pm

V981 wrote:Haha. So I guess we can all assume that if the elevated rail option is chosen, the underground proposal will be buried?

OH DAAAD!!!
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Re: Secret Proposal Leaked To Construct Elevated Rail Line!!

Postby Alex on the Bus » Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:08 pm

I don't think I'm being an apologist for the elevated option - I have simply pointed out some points for and against both options, and I agree that elevating the line through Carnegie may be as problematic as sinking the line (blight and proximity versus favourable grades).

As for the suggestion that the line needs to remain at the same level throughout I doubt that will ever happen as the expense cannot be justified - what will happen is either the line will be elevated or depressed in those three segments, or the line will be lowered at or near each existing level crossing (which would result in the sort of undulating line you would be hoping to avoid).
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Re: Secret Proposal Leaked To Construct Elevated Rail Line!!

Postby krustyklo » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:06 pm

Haha. So I guess we can all assume that if the elevated rail option is chosen, the underground proposal will be buried?


Personally, if they don't dig up the ground, build a tunnel, then put dirt back in up to ground level, I would be cut that there was a cover up...

Although the case for a tunnel has a hole in it...

(I'll just grab my coat)
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Re: Blatant proposal to construct elevated rail lines.

Postby Craig » Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:00 pm

Roderick Smith wrote:All of the management apologists keep quoting elevated trams in arterial road medians; they are not quoting multitrack mainlines with suburban trains the size or Melbourne's and with diesel-hauled freight trains.


My post from early last week, full of examples in Melbourne, including overnight freight trains. For those unfamiliar with Station St in Aspendale, the track is a raised embankment to mitigate floods that were common until the 1950s, due to the land being former part of the Carrum Carrum swamp.

Craig wrote:Much of the line between Victoria Park & North Richmond is elevated, are there any notable issues along there? Does the sound of Hoddle St traffic drown out the trains?

Sound also can't be a huge issue given how Swinburne has built itself around the elevated line through the middle of their Glenferrie campus.

Even with freight trains, those living near Patterson or along Station St Aspendale seem to cope with the Long Island coming through in the middle of the night.


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Re: Secret Proposal Leaked To Construct Elevated Rail Line!!

Postby tranzitjim » Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:45 pm

How much of an eyesore the structure is, depends very much on the style and presentation of the structure.

there is no reason whatsoever that we can not grow vines up the sides of these structures. Then again, I for one am not greatly bothered with a concrete structure being near me.
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Re: Secret Proposal Leaked To Construct Elevated Rail Line!!

Postby pakenhamtrain » Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:31 pm

Alex on the Bus wrote: Mile Creek bridge (the creek being 27 metres ASL)

Mile Creek bridge is going to be a funny one. The actual creek is in a pipe under the concrete drainage channel.
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Re: the Monorail myth

Postby Roderick Smith » Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:00 pm

1950s cartoons did brilliantly with monorail scifi: the world believes in the myth, not the reality. They are slow and low capacity, and not one has the capacity of a Melbourne suburban train. Most have the carrying capacity of a tram. Most are below 65 km/h: Tokyo Haneda (Japan) and Chongqing (China) are 65, perhaps 80. Those which aren't 'fairground' style have visually-intrusive supporting beams.
I have a photo up earlier in this thread. The letter writer hasn't allowed for VLine or freight.

160123Sa Melbourne (Vic.) 'Herald Sun': Monorail letter.

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Re: Secret Proposal Leaked To Construct Elevated Rail Line!!

Postby willister » Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:49 pm

Does anyone know what Liberal would have done with the level crossing removals themselves? It seems to me that they were less ambitious with the Clayton removal projected to be done by 2019. At the time the Napthine government was in, traders were happy but the council thought it was too slow....was this a way to speed things up?

Living in Clayton, it affects me directly being about 800m from the station. It all depends on how the designs will look, initially I was a bit hesitant about the idea of elevated rail, but after seeing some overseas designs and one in Adelaide it doesn't seem too bad. The only concern though is I've not seen a similar design as most overseas type designs is nothing similar to Melbourne's...

Does anyone have a clue as to how this will integrate with the current underground Springvale station? The only elevated rail I have seen is overseas in Taiwan, where I once visited. There were no businesses beneath the tracks, only a green sort of area and a pathway, looking directly up you do see the concrete grey ugliness, but the same could be said for underground stations. Ideally everything would be tunneled with the space above used for commercial/other purposes, but that idea it out the door due to costs.

I somehow can't fathom as to how this will not turn into a rollercoaster as I can pretty much bet this won't be a straight all elevated or all underground decision....especially for stations near Springvale such as Clayton...
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Re: Secret Proposal Leaked To Construct Elevated Rail Line!!

Postby V981 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:57 pm

This issue is set to potentially become a political firestorm for the Andrews government, with rumours circulating that a "skyrail" option has already been signed off on by the government between Clayton and Dandenong. There are murmurs that a prominent media organization is set to expose this next week sometime.

If this is the case, it is sure to cause alot of controversy on the back of a lack of public consultation. Very much a case of watch this space. :shock:
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Re: Secret Proposal Leaked To Construct Elevated Rail Line!!

Postby tranzitjim » Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:52 am

V981 wrote:This issue is set to potentially become a political firestorm for the Andrews government, with rumours circulating that a "skyrail" option has already been signed off on by the government between Clayton and Dandenong. There are murmurs that a prominent media organization is set to expose this next week sometime.

If this is the case, it is sure to cause alot of controversy on the back of a lack of public consultation. Very much a case of watch this space. :shock:


I did hear the same rumor.

I hope that means we get the project done quickly. We need to get it done before the next state election so the Libs if they get in, can not cancel it.
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Re: Secret Proposal Leaked To Construct Elevated Rail Line!!

Postby Heihachi_73 » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:26 pm

willister wrote:Does anyone know what Liberal would have done with the level crossing removals themselves?

Closed the railway line at Richmond and put in a tollway. :lol:
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Re: Secret Proposal Leaked To Construct Elevated Rail Line!!

Postby BroadGauge » Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:25 pm

V981 wrote:This issue is set to potentially become a political firestorm for the Andrews government, with rumours circulating that a "skyrail" option has already been signed off on by the government between Clayton and Dandenong. There are murmurs that a prominent media organization is set to expose this next week sometime.

What's the very worst that could happen, the ALP's hold on one of the local electorates will decrease from their current 65.8% margin to 65.0% at the next election?

The majority of people wouldn't care about what it looks like anyway, they'd be happy to accept the benefits of the project. And at the end of the day everybody still votes for the ALP anyway so it really wouldn't matter if the government decommissioned the sewerage system in these suburbs, people would still vote for them.

And who knows, the actual "skyrail" viaducts themselves, if done right, could become the most architecturally beautiful structures standing within the suburbs in question, perhaps even creating the area's only tourist destination :twisted:
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