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PTV: 2016 Night Network

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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby josh01 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:22 am

I dont understand why on white night the city loop station and southern cross are open all night
While on weekend they are closed????
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Heihachi_73 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:47 am

Plenty of people were left stranded without public transport last night leading up to Australia Day and its Saturday timetable (which of course does not apply to the Night Network, because that would be too logical). I'm sure taxis made a killing too.
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby BroadGauge » Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:04 pm

Heihachi_73 wrote:Plenty of people were left stranded without public transport last night leading up to Australia Day and its Saturday timetable (which of course does not apply to the Night Network, because that would be too logical)

Yeah they won't provide any service on some of the public holiday eves when the city is pumping and everybody goes out, but they are providing all night service on the three very quietest days of the year for everything during 2015-2016, being Christmas Day, Good Friday and New Year's Day, just cos they all happen to fall on a Friday!

Just because Christmas Day happens to fall on a Friday doesn't mean that nightclubs are open and everybody is out partying in the city... it's still Christmas Day. It would be too logical to not run all night services on those nights to service tumbleweeds, and instead use those resources to run services on say Melbourne Cup Eve, Australia Day Eve and Labour Day Eve instead :twisted:
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Roderick Smith » Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:23 am

Patronage is growing, despite the shoddy timetable. I have counted about 60 people in down trains at Surrey Hills, ~5.00. I also estimated around 30 on an up at around 6.00 on a Sunday. I have a friend who is out and about as an all-night roving reporter, and will have better estimates when he phones.
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby burrumbus » Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:28 am

But note the cost blowout.It really will be a matter of trialling the services,assess the patronage and then keep the well patronised services and turf the low patronage services to keep the costs under control
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby josh01 » Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:12 pm

Quick question here is the early bird tickit vaild on night service? If not
Why and why not?its free on Weekedays before 7am but not weekend.
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby pakenhamtrain » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:17 pm

josh01 wrote:Quick question here is the early bird tickit vaild on night service? If not
Why and why not?its free on Weekedays before 7am but not weekend.

Because the early bird was designed more or less to get commuters onto early trains.
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Craig » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:23 pm

Advice from PTV regarding Daylight Savings and Night Network

[url]PTV[/url] wrote:Important information about Night Coaches and daylight savings
Added: 30 March 2016

Most Victorians will have an extra hour to enjoy Melbourne’s nightlife and get home by public transport when daylight savings ends on Sunday 3 April 2016.

At 3 am clocks will turn back one hour to 2 am.

Night Train, Night Tram and Night Bus services will not be impacted by the end of daylight savings, but Night Coach passengers need to be aware that coaches will only operate once, when the clock strikes 2 am for the first time.

No additional Night Coaches will be provided when clocks rewind back to 2 am.

Customers are reminded to keep this in mind when planning their journey home on Sunday 3 April.


In 2014 I contacted the various NightRider operators as was told that buses would continue to run to Daylight Savings time until last bus (with no extra trips or a pausing for an hour to create a 90 min gap) so this is a change of policy for buses.

See - viewtopic.php?f=4&t=76237&start=25#p909845

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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby 712M » Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:19 pm

Does this mean there will be an additional service on each line to cover the extra hour of operation? The cost would be counterbalanced by having to run one less service when daylight savings begin again.
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Craig » Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:25 pm

712M wrote:Does this mean there will be an additional service on each line to cover the extra hour of operation? The cost would be counterbalanced by having to run one less service when daylight savings begin again.


Indeed there was - I was still onboard #1065 after 9:30am DLS time (8:30am standard time) on a late late 970 on the Mornington Peninsula, which departed Carrum almost 20 mins late late account of the adjusted train timetable for the occo and then got held up in Safety Beach after the driver was not advised of a triathlon.

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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby burrumbus » Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:23 pm

You are keen Craig !!!!
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby krustyklo » Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:46 pm

There, fixed that for you. :wink:
You are mad, Craig !!!!
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Roderick Smith » Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:48 am

Late-night revellers turning to trains, trams and buses over taxis.
June 19, 2016 - Melbourne 'Age'.
www.theage.com.au/victoria/latenight-re ... pmnmv.html

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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby josh01 » Sat Jul 02, 2016 3:34 am

Every weekend there are 2 Dyson buses and 2 Ventura buses
Park each Fri sat night outside flindrs street station from
12am to roughly 5 or 6am.
Anyone know what these buses are used for They stand there all night
And don't move
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Craig » Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:14 pm

josh01 wrote:Every weekend there are 2 Dyson buses and 2 Ventura buses
Park each Fri sat night outside flindrs street station from
12am to roughly 5 or 6am.
Anyone know what these buses are used for They stand there all night
And don't move


They are on standby duty in case one of the train or tram lines need to be suspended overnight (and possibly cover any cancellations on the hourly headway). I presume they can also be sent to a bus breakdown in the inner suburbs.

This is similar to Metro arranging standby buses on extremely hot days or ahead of a storm forecast, rather than waiting up to an hour for the first buses to arrive after an issue arises. They also are arranged occasionally for major events such as Commonwealth Games, White Night and Spring Racing Carnival (for the latter they run shuttles to Footscray in the afternoon rather than just sit around).

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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby josh01 » Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:37 pm

thanks for the information Craig you do get around and know your public transport well

since we are in the month of july has ptv got any result if they are going to keep their 24hr transport?

customers sould be informed soon
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Craig » Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:32 pm

I doubt a final decision going forward would be announced until at least November - you can't call it a one-year trial and then advise an outcome half way through. The recent Age article that Roderick posted however shows the trial is delivering promising results so far.

The Age wrote:Late-night revellers turning to trains, trams and buses over taxis
June 19, 2016
Josh Gordon
State political editor for The Age

Late-night revellers are increasingly using trams, trains and buses to get home from a big night out rather than catching cabs or slogging their way home on foot.

Patronage on the Andrews government's Night Network – offering all-night hourly trains in and out of the city on most lines, half-hourly trams on six major lines, extra bus services and a 2am coach service to regional cities – has been steadily growing since a trial started in January.

So much so that trains have now overtaken walking as the most common method of getting home, with taxi use and driving also waning.

Public Transport Victoria figures provided to Fairfax Media reveal about 10,000 people used the network on the first weekend of the year-long trial. But that has since grown to a total across Friday and Saturday nights of about 35,000.


Announced before the 2014 state election, the trial was controversial. Labor claimed it would allow young people and shift workers to get home safely, cheaply and quickly on the weekend, while critics claimed the high cost of staffing stations with all-night PSOs and running extra services could not be justified.

The latest figures show the patronage has grown enough to justify continuing with the policy – which involves an extra 300 train services, 250 tram services and 485 bus services each weekend – when the trial finishes at the end of the year.


Public Transport Minister Jacinta Allan suggested the trial had generated economic activity in the city by encouraging people to stay out later.

"Unlike Sydney, which shuts down late at night, Melbourne's night economy is booming, creating jobs and making our city safer and easier to enjoy," Ms Allan said.

A major survey conducted by Public Transport Victoria found three-quarters of people using the service were aged 18 to 34, and 61 per cent were male.

Train use jumped 11 per cent soon after the policy was launched, with tram use up by 9 per cent. But in a loss for the taxi industry, cab use dropped 8 per cent after its introduction, while walking dropped 7 per cent.

The policy also appears to have encouraged people to stay out later. Before the trial started, 22 per cent called it quits between 2am and 3am, compared with 27 per cent after it was introduced.

Image




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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Craig » Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:24 pm

The Age wrote:
All-night public transport trial extended for six months
Benjamin Preiss

The trial of 24-hour public transport on weekends will be extended until June next year to examine its effect on major events, including the Australian Open.

The state government has described the trial so far as "hugely popular", with an average of 35,000 people using Night Network on weekends.

According to government figures, more than 20 per cent of late-night passengers were shift workers, employed in hospitality and other industries working overnight.

The trial was a major election commitment from the Andrews government.

Premier Daniel Andrews said the early results of the trial, which began about six months ago, were encouraging.

"This really is a case of Victorians voting with their feet," he said on Tuesday.

The extension will allow the government to assess passenger levels over a full summer and compare the beginning of 2017 with the same time this year, which is traditionally a busy time in Melbourne for events.

"It will give us the best contemporary picture ... of exactly what services Victorians and particularly Melburnians need and want," the Premier said.

Mr Andrews said the extended public transport was creating a safer and more vibrant city and state.

The extension will cost $25 million for the transport services, with an additional $13.7 million for security.

Public Transport Minister Jacinta Allan said the patronage figures exceeded government expectations.

She said Melbourne was increasingly becoming a 24-hour city.

Extended services during the trial include trains, trams and buses in metropolitan Melbourne.

There are also V/Line coaches to Bendigo, Ballarat, Gippsland and Geelong.

Public Transport Minister Jacinta Allan said the original trial cost $50 million.

"As more people are becoming aware that this is a service that's available we are seeing more people use the service," she said.

The extension will cost $25 million.

Ms Allan said the patronage figures exceeded government expectations.

She said there had been steady use of regional bus services but it was not as strong as metropolitan services.

The government has not yet committed to permanent 24-hour transport on weekends.


The Herald Sun article added "younger Victorians aged 17-25 years old made up 75 per cent of users."

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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Roderick Smith » Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:30 pm

This is despite PTV's determined attempt to sabotage the trial with useless timetables: all of the costs, and none of the benefits. The rail component should be running every 30 min to stop signallers and psos being bored to death.
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Heihachi_73 » Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:34 pm

Most certainly. Especially when the NightRider was running every half an hour while its "successor" runs hourly. But I suppose, the PTV could also just flat out lie and say no-one ever caught the night services at all by simply taking a photo of a train leaving Lilydale at 3AM and applying that logic to every train and bus in the entire state.

Although, I would still prefer to not have to walk 10+ kilometres and/or waste $40+ on a taxi on weeknights too. I've walked from the city to Hawthorn, Glenferrie, Auburn and Camberwell and beyond more times than I would really like to (city to Burnley is nothing, I don't even count that). I have even made it to (and beyond) Box Hill on more than one occasion when there was a public holiday with its stupid Saturday or Sunday timetable following, or if I finished early and it was just after 1AM. I have never made it all the way back to Ringwood on foot though (Laburnum and Blackburn I have done, twice and once respectively).
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby krustyklo » Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:56 pm

Especially when the NightRider was running every half an hour while its "successor" runs hourly.

Yeah? Maybe I am missing something but:
  • NightRider in it's final incarnation was a bus service that departed every 30 minutes from the city to middle and outer suburban destinations.
  • Nightbus in it's current incarnation is a bus service that departs every 30 minutes from the city to middle and outer suburban destinations, eg http://tt.ptv.vic.gov.au/tt/TTB/20160727-140700/vic/08955_ttb_TP.pdf
  • In addition, there are now half hourly trams on 4 routes, and all rail lines operate hourly.

Sure I'll grant you there are edge cases such as loss of service from Grimshaw St Bundoora/Watsonia/Greensborough and Sherbourne Rd Montmorency / Eltham, as well as many other places. However, there are also significant additional services. And if the truth be known, most of the previous NightRider network is similar to the current Nightbus 30 minute city based network. The 955 linked to above is much the same as the previous Eltham NightRider as far as Bundoora, a not insignificant distance. Ditto services around Doncaster.

The question to ask is that when the trial finishes, would you rather the previous NightRider network reinstated, or would you prefer the current trial network? And what would the opinions be of the alleged 35,000 people using the trial network every weekend currently compared to the 10,000 or so using the previous NightRider network?
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby cal_t » Mon Aug 08, 2016 2:15 am

I am sure those who plan services do request from operators to see where overcrowding occurs in nightride services. And by request it's not just validation data but CCTV footage.

Rest assured that taxpayers money do not go to waste. :)
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby BroadGauge » Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:22 am

krustyklo wrote:Yeah? Maybe I am missing something but:
  • NightRider in it's final incarnation was a bus service that departed every 30 minutes from the city to middle and outer suburban destinations.
  • Nightbus in it's current incarnation is a bus service that departs every 30 minutes from the city to middle and outer suburban destinations, eg http://tt.ptv.vic.gov.au/tt/TTB/20160727-140700/vic/08955_ttb_TP.pdf
  • In addition, there are now half hourly trams on 4 routes, and all rail lines operate hourly.

Half hourly bus services being replaced with hourly trains is what I think he's referring to.

To take for instance the area where I used to live in the eastern suburbs as an example, the old Croydon/Lilydale NightRider used to run every 30 minutes, and take just under 35 minutes to get from the CBD to the stop near Laburnum Station. Now it's been replaced with an hourly train that's only 5 or 6 minutes faster.

For that particular journey the new service is essentially worse than the old one.
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby krustyklo » Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:07 pm

Half hourly bus services being replaced with hourly trains is what I think he's referring to.


I appreciate that, but much of the old NightRider network served areas away from heavy rail networks. For example, on the Hurstbridge line, the NightRider effectively only served Eltham, Greensborough, Westgarth, and Clifton Hill. However often it ran, if you lived near any other station, you had no direct night service. Hence an hourly heavy rail service is an improvement, plus most of the former route still exists at the same frequency as before, not to mention the 86 also runs half hourly 24 hours as well.

On the other hand, if you live north of Bell on the Epping line, I would understand why you might feel ripped off, although South Morang gains a new service it didn't previously have.

As I commented at the time, there are swings and roundabouts, winners and losers, but overall the new network has a greater coverage and is overall an improvement (as also voted by the improved numbers of users). Just don't ask whether it is the best use of x million dollars for improving patronage on Melbourne's PT...
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Heihachi_73 » Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:33 am

BroadGauge wrote:Half hourly bus services being replaced with hourly trains is what I think he's referring to.

To take for instance the area where I used to live in the eastern suburbs as an example, the old Croydon/Lilydale NightRider used to run every 30 minutes, and take just under 35 minutes to get from the CBD to the stop near Laburnum Station. Now it's been replaced with an hourly train that's only 5 or 6 minutes faster.

For that particular journey the new service is essentially worse than the old one.

Bingo. The 966 was more frequent than the 963, and they didn't make it so the two, hourly, services departed within minutes of one another. Yes, it's still theoretically two services per hour (one train and one bus), but that's not the point. It's more of the Old El Paso saying - "Why don't we have both?" - the half-hourly "NightRider" bus, PLUS the train and tram services where the buses don't roam. Unfortunately, a tram is completely useless to anyone beyond Box Hill or Vermont South (try finding the quickest route from the 75 terminus back to Ringwood station).

If I have to catch a train from Ringwood to Croydon (for example) and it's 2:35AM, I would have to wait all the way until 3:20-odd for the next Lilydale train, and the 963 (which departs on the 30 of every hour) goes nowhere near there since it follows Maroondah Highway for the most part; it also doesn't go via Ringwood East or Mt. Dandenong Rd unlike the 966 it replaced, nor does it go via Hull Rd towards Mooroolbark (ugh, buses and Mooroolbark, I just can't get away from that subject). And of course, in their infinite wisdom, they made it that the 964 doesn't go all the way to Ringwood but terminates at Croydon itself, so even the other side of Ringwood East (e.g. Bedford/Dublin Rd/380 area) completely misses out on a service as well (I wonder if it was the same person who also decided that the 679 should terminate at Montrose of all places after dark).
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