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PTV: 2016 Night Network

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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby krustyklo » Sun Aug 14, 2016 8:18 pm

try finding the quickest route from the 75 terminus back to Ringwood station

Challenge accepted. Ignoring the Journey Planner suggestion of going via Bayswater and taking 57 minutes, the quickest route leaving Vermont South at 3am is 967 bus to Knox (arr 3.10am), then 969 bus to Ringwood (dep 3.16am, arr 3.30am). Journey time: 30 minutes. I don't have the last NightRider timetables handy, so let me know how much quicker it was under NightRider. 30 minutes seems comparable even to driving between the two places.

It's more of the Old El Paso saying - "Why don't we have both?" - the half-hourly "NightRider" bus, PLUS the train and tram services where the buses don't roam. Unfortunately, a tram is completely useless to anyone beyond Box Hill or Vermont South (try finding the quickest route from the 75 terminus back to Ringwood station).

Whilst we're at it, if there are that many people wanting to travel between disparate places in the suburbs, why not make it easier still and just run a framework of normal route buses overnight connecting to the same train and tram services they normally connect to. Keeps the network legible which is preferable to special networks at different times of day.

On the other hand, personally I'd prefer if there was taxpayer money slushing around looking to burn on running bus services, I'd rather see it spent on better weekend services. I'm fairly lucky in that I live near two half hourly Smartbuses, but I suspect there are many areas that would love to have better than hourly services on weekdays let alone weekends, and better potential patronage increases than running buses duplicating trains at 3am in the morning.
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Craig » Fri Sep 16, 2016 9:26 pm

PTV wrote:Seymour Coach added to Night Network Services
Added: 16 September 2016

From 14 October, residents at destinations along the rail line between Melbourne and Seymour will benefit from a new Night Coach being introduced under the Government’s Night Network trial of all night public transport at weekends.

The new Seymour Night Coach will depart from Melbourne’s Southern Cross Coach Terminal at 2am on Saturday and Sunday mornings, dropping passengers off at stations along the line, as well as coach stops in Wallan and Kilmore.

Arriving at Seymour just before 4am, the Night Coach finishes its route 15 minutes later with a final drop off at Bridges Barracks, Puckapunyal. Only authorised personnel who possess a Defence Common Access Card will be permitted access to the Puckapunyal Military Area.

Seymour joins Bendigo, Ballarat, Geelong and Traralgon as regional destinations serviced by Night Network.

Night Network was launched by the Andrews Government in January this year as a one year trial of all night transport at weekends across trains trams and buses in Melbourne, and 2am Night Coaches to major regional destinations.

As a further boost to Melbourne’s night time economy and major events, in July this year the Victorian Government announced a six month continuation of Night Network services over the summer and autumn of 2017.

Seymour Night Coach timetable
Southern Cross Coach Terminal 02:00
Craigieburn Train Station 02:35 u
Donnybrook Train Station 02:45 d
Wallan Public Hall/Northern Highway 02:59
Wallan Train Station 03:05 d
Heathcote Junction Train Station 03:12 d
Wandong Train Station 03:14 d
Kilmore Hudson Park/Sydney Street 03:23
Kilmore East Train Station 03:28 d
Broadford Train Station 03:35
Tallarook Train Station 03:47 d
Seymour Train Station 03:55
Puckapunyal Bridges Barracks 04:10 d

Key: d = drop off only u = Pick up only


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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Andy O » Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:10 pm

Quick question, anyone which operators provide the regoinal night network coaches?
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Craig » Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:37 am

Andy O wrote:Quick question, anyone which operators provide the regoinal night network coaches?


Dysons run all the Night Coaches, I believe Sunshine Coaches may have a couple of standby coaches at/near Southern Cross too.

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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Roderick Smith » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:59 pm

PTV has been determined to kill all-night travel. Seymour was the strange omission originally, but these 2.00 buses leave from a station at which the trains don't stop.
It is possible to get there by tram, but the fewer services filling the gap, the less easily a connection is made.

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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby CAL » Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:13 pm

Craig wrote:
Andy O wrote:Quick question, anyone which operators provide the regoinal night network coaches?


Dysons run all the Night Coaches, I believe Sunshine Coaches may have a couple of standby coaches at/near Southern Cross too.

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Dysons have 2 stand by coaches each Friday and Saturday night based at Southern Cross in case of any breakdowns, overflows etc. Sunshine only supply stand by (if ordered) for rail services. However, tend to be strategically parked around the west end of the city in case of major disruptions.

Roderick Smith wrote:PTV has been determined to kill all-night travel. Seymour was the strange omission originally, but these 2.00 buses leave from a station at which the trains don't stop.
It is possible to get there by tram, but the fewer services filling the gap, the less easily a connection is made.

Roderick.


Southern Cross is serviced by trams 86, 96 and is a short walk from trams 75, 109. Also a 10/15min walk from Swanston St. The night coaches are becoming more popular each weekend. Sunday morning is the more popular night of the two with Geelong (North to Waurn Ponds) and Melton/Bacchus Marsh the most used services
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby RailwayBus » Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:58 am

The night coaches are becoming more popular each weekend. Sunday morning is the more popular night of the two with Geelong (North to Waurn Ponds) and Melton/Bacchus Marsh the most used services


Sunday morning/Saturday night is also by far the more popular night on Metro services too. Friday nights/Saturday mornings are relatively dead in comparison.
All views expressed are strictly my own and do not represent my employer or anyone else.
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby BroadGauge » Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:30 am

RailwayBus wrote:
The night coaches are becoming more popular each weekend. Sunday morning is the more popular night of the two with Geelong (North to Waurn Ponds) and Melton/Bacchus Marsh the most used services


Sunday morning/Saturday night is also by far the more popular night on Metro services too. Friday nights/Saturday mornings are relatively dead in comparison.

I often catch the train home around 7am on varying days of the week (well the train leaves the city about 6:30 but it's about 7 when I get on), and on a Sunday morning the service is the busiest of any day, mainly with people coming home from a big night out.

On Saturday mornings the trains at that time are completely dead, weekdays have a few around mainly going to early morning jobs in the suburbs but less than a Sunday.

Hopefully even if the trial isn't continued they'll at least keep the Sunday trains starting from 5am as plenty of people are using them during that period. I remember years ago I used to complain about the lack of early Sunday trains on this board and everybody used to think I was insane :twisted:
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby josh01 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:06 pm

reguarding the night network and and 732 tramlink sould the 732 be upgraded to meet every tram route 75 ???
In another case 896 Cranbourne is a trainlink is ment to meet with every train but does not since night network been introdouced will these route get upgraded ???
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Leyland B21 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:28 pm

I can tell you Route 896 is being withdrawn early next month with the new Casey (Cranbourne) revamp

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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Craig » Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:42 am

josh01 wrote:reguarding the night network and and 732 tramlink sould the 732 be upgraded to meet every tram route 75 ???


The 967 Night Bus does run along Burwood Hwy once an hour, the connections off 75 are acceptable, about 9 mins on Sunday mornings and 12 mins on Saturday mornings. Inbound, the connections are a little tight, about 3 minutes.

A quirk that already existed with the 732 Knox Transit Link section is that when the Friday & Saturday night span of services was extended by an hour in October 2006 (until 1am out of the City), no later trips were added.

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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Roderick Smith » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:20 pm

170225Sa Melbourne 'Herald Sun' - all-night inefficiency. This is a condensation of my detailed article, posted at the time the useless PTV created the bizarre timetable, and picked up by a mole at facebook or yahoo or a forum (it is on page 3 of this thread).

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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Roderick Smith » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:19 pm

On 18.1.16 I posted only the header to my 30 min plan . Here is the detail.
In my earlier design, I noted how PTV had replaced buses every 30 min with trains every 60 min.
Part of 'all-night city' is that Skybus runs all night. However, PTV refuses to connect: suburban platforms at Southern Cross stay firmly locked. It isn't even possible to connect with the infamous Sunday morning down Albury. Given that there is some activity around the bus bays (Skybus, and 2.00 to all outer urban, it should be possible to open the Bourke St entry to the suburban platforms 11, (12?), 13 & 14. There are security guards on all night. The problem is that the station is controlled by yet another quango, not answerable to PTV.
I looked at a better solution, involving 30 min headways, but not every line. All departures are locked onto 00/30 (some on 05/35) for maximum simplicity, convenience and connectivity. Not every station gets all-night psos (saving money and boredom), but I haven't seen the list. I have gone for 6 min turnarounds at outer ends, longer at the inner. Many up runs could be juggled to lengthen at the outer, tighten at the inner, and improve connectivity.
30 min will require some extra buses, and they will be running mostly in areas where buses are connecting with trains anyhow. Hence, I use four more sets than PTV, and ten more buses (at a driver each, but reduced pso need).

PTV 60 min, RBS 60 min, RBS 30 min, set requirements.
Northern: 6, 5, 7.
Clifton Hill: 5, 4, 6.
Burnley: 7, 7, 6.
Caulfield Werribee: 11, 10, 14
Total: 29, 26, 33.

Flinders St 05; Sunbury 52-58; Flinders St 43. Form 00 Craigieburn.
Flinders St 35; Sunbury 22-28; Flinders St 13. Form 30 Craigieburn.
bus Sunshine - Melton (Bacchus Marsh?).
Vlocity Sunshine - Wyndham Vale (Geelong?).
Flinders St 00; Craigieburn 41-47; Flinders St 28. Form 35 Sunbury.
Flinders St 30; Craigieburn 11-17; Flinders St 58. Form 05 Sunbury.
Cycle time: 41+6+41+7+47+6+45+17 = 210 = seven sets.

Upfield: route 19 tram, then bus to/from Broadmeadows via Upfield.

Flinders St 00; Epping 38-44; Flinders St 24. Form 30 Epping.
Flinders St 30; Epping 08-14; Flinders St 54. Form 00 Epping.
bus Epping - Whittlesea via South Morang.
Flinders St 05; Greensborough 42-50; Flinders St 27. Form 35 Greensborough.
Flinders St 35; Greensborough 12-20; Flinders St 57. Form 05 Greensborough.
bus Greensborough - Hurstbridge via Eltham & Diamond Creek.
cycle time: 42+6+43+4+37+6+37+5 = 180 = six sets.

Flinders St 00; Ringwood 41-47; Flinders St 30. Form 35 Glen Waverley.
Flinders St 30; Ringwood 11-17; Flinders St 00. Form 05 Glen Waverley.
buses to Lilydale and Belgrave; minibuses to Alamein (those back streets are jammed with parked cars, and a full-size bus won't fit, connection with route 75 trams may be an additional prospect).
Flinders St 05; Glen Waverley 39-45; Flinders St 19. Form 30 Ringwood.
Flinders St 35; Glen Waverley 09-15; Flinders St 49. Form 00 Ringwood.
cycle time: 41+6+43+5+34+6+34+11 = 180 = six sets.

Flinders St 00; Dandenong 41-47; Flinders St 29. Form 35 Frankston.
Flinders St 30; Dandenong 11-17; Flinders St 59. Form 05 Frankston.
bus connections to/from Pakenham and Cranbourne.
Flinders St 05; Frankston 07-13; Flinders St 14. Form 30 Dandenong.
Flinders St 35; Frankston 37-43; Flinders St 44. Form 00 Dandenong.
buses to Mornington and Crib Point.
cycle time: 41+6+42+6+62+6+61+16 = 240, eight sets.

Flinders St 00; Sandringham 30-36; Flinders St 06. Form 10 Werribee.
Flinders St 30; Sandringham 00-06; Flinders St 36. Form 40 Werribee.
Flinders St 10; Newport 29; Laverton 46; Werribee 59-05; Laverton 16; Newport 32; Flinders St 53. Form 00 Sandringham.
Flinders St 40; Newport 59; Laverton 16; Werribee 29-35; Laverton 46; Newport 02; Flinders St 23. Form 30 Sandringham.
The breathless section is Altona Jn - Laverton, and that is soluble if it really is a problem. Run all up trains via the straight. Anyone from Seaholme on rides the down, and changes at Laverton. The recent megabillion rebuilding destroyed the chance of a cross-platform change: it has to be up and over.
One bus covers both Williamstown connections.
cycle time: 30+6+30+4+49+6+48+7 = 180, six sets.

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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Roderick Smith » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:18 am

Roderick.

$36 a night rider: Cost of Melbourne's transport trial grows.
Sunday Herald Sun April 8, 2017.
•Idle trains a weak link in 24-hour transport TAXPAYERS are forking out almost $36 for every person who rides on Melbourne’s all-night weekend transport during its first year on the tracks.
The cost is enough to ferry 1.7 million people from St Kilda to the MCG return, prompting transport experts to call for changes in the remaining months of the trial.
Public Transport Users Association spokesman Daniel Bowen said the government had been “very quiet’’ on feedback and the network would have to change.
“Some of the night bus services they are running do not have a lot of users and $36 per passenger is obviously not viable,’’ Mr Bowen said.
“It is good that they are trialling it but it is clear some parts are successful and some parts need revision.
“Hopefully, they have been working in the background to revise it to keep it running after June.”
The latest costings follow revelations that trains were left idling at stations for more than 30 minutes waiting to make a return trip.
All up, more than two million people had jumped aboard since January 2016.
But, despite the issues, the government has ruled out tweaking timetables before the trial ends in June.
“The Night Network is making a real difference for thousands of people every weekend,” Public Transport Minister Jacinta Allan said.
“It’s helping people enjoy the world’s most liveable city for longer, and getting those who work late for a living home safer and sooner every weekend.”
PTV figures released to the Sunday Herald Sun revealed 32,400 Victorians are now jumping on board the service every week, and almost one-quarter are workers.
Night trains remained the most popular, recording 57 per cent of myki touch-ons, while trams shuttled 38 per cent of passengers.
Night regional coaches carried only 170 passengers each weekend.
The trial was originally set up for $50 million with an added cost of $34 million for extra all-hours security and PSOs.
In August Premier Daniel Andrews extended the trial with an added $25 million in funds.
It is widely expected the government will con­tinue the service after the June deadline but is likely to overhaul parts of the network.
www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/36-a ... 19a27c0b78
* PTV was determined to sabotage the scheme, with supremely shoddy timetabling, and replacing existing 30 min headways with 60 min headways. Running the trains to key nodes for bus connections on 30 min headways would give better service for no more resources, and would attract more patronage.
* Yet another example of the breathtaking incompetence of this Andrews Labor Government. A disaster at every turn for Victoria.
* Get rid of the train portion of it. That is where the real expense comes in- 1 train driver per additional train, 2 extra PSOs per station, Station Staff, Ticket Inspectors etc. etc.
* Wonderful and we in in rural northern Victoria, [that's the area above Seymour on a map], cannot even be graced with just one train a day.
* Government feelgood policies know no limit with taxpayer money!
* Well us Folks who live in country and Bush pay , pay pay anyway for Roads and tunnels and skyrails and the whole city Transport system and we get buggar all nothing anyway .. not even a bit of new Tar on our roads No Transport what so ever ,not even a rickety old city rejected Bus , No thing , with out a car its hell and I still pay the same levels of Tax as I did when I lived in the city , so be happy city folks you get it all any way , lock, stock & barrel and total benefit of mine and all other bush folks Taxation ..you get the lot .
* I actually think it is an excellent idea, it doesn't matter how stupid it is, people will go out and get drunk, and I would rather have them on public transport than in a vehicle. I also think the service is excellent for the workers. They otherwise would not have an option but a vehicle, and hefty car parking fees. Something that day city workers do not have to worry about.
What we did back when, is not relevant at all, what is happening today has to be catered for.
Having said that, you just cannot throw good money after bad, that is just a typical political response. Ah not our money, don't worry about it.
Why not do what they do overseas, 3 or 4 strategically placed waiting areas, that are safe and warm, and cut the amount of buses to the areas that are not being utilized as often. All of the city train stations have an area within them where this could happen.
And what is with the huge buses, wouldn't a smaller shuttle-bus be far better for night? I realise that the driver would cost the same, but surely the running costs of the vehicle itself could be drastically cut. The night-rider buses look impressive, but that again is just the politicians saying hey, look what we have done.
* The picture says a thousand words. The absolute need for the overcrowded tram? No?
Keeping it running is what is costing! The taxpayers!
But fun, and the misery that comes with it must be accommodated, Just ask the hospitals.
No control in behaviour. And no control on Andrews to waste our money! Fact!
* It is not healthy loading up on alcohol then going to the city at 11 pm. Partying all night then being wiped out and in bed all of Sunday.
We went out early and usually got home around 1pm.
* There shouldn't be public transport all night long. It encourages unhealthy/life destroying behaviours.
* Taxpayers paying out millions so that a few drunks can get drunker. Great way to waste more of our money Dan.
What about making the after midnight tickets the $50 it was estimated to cost originally and see if they still want it.
* If these stats are taken by how many people tap on and off., it would be curious to know how many are travelling without using a Myki. Are inspectors checking tickets....I doubt it.
* Who would have thought that LABOR has come up with another failed policy?
* It is only costing the taxpayer's $36 per passenger, a real bargain! But Labor had to give their union mates extra money for putting Labor into power.
* “The Night Network is making a real difference for thousands of people every weekend,” Public Transport Minister Jacinta Allan said.. Thanks Jacinta but it still costs $36.00 per passenger. You politicians just don't get it, if it's not viable in the current form change it.
* Can someone calculate then how much per fare subsidises vandalism/graffiti and fare evasion?
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby josh01 » Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:25 pm

Why not bring back the nightrider. is that a cheaper option than trains every 30?
Eg all lines depart flinders around 00 on the hour
Nightrider leaves every 1hr on the 30min
Does anyone use the night bus abyway ????
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Heihachi_73 » Thu May 04, 2017 4:10 pm

The Night Bus network was intended to travel in car-centric suburbia where the trains and trams do not roam, so they choose convoluted paths like Ringwood via Caulfield and Rowville and it probably takes two hours to do the round trip. If the normal old SmartBuses were running at night there they wouldn't even need the Night Bus in those areas. Of course, with the rest of the areas being car-centric suburbia rather than SmartBus central, it also means that people are still driving rather than waiting an hour for the bus, because even during the day the normal buses are still once an hour so catching a bus isn't even thought of to those people.
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Roderick Smith » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:50 pm

This has brought up a rash of memories of all-night trams (WWII to the late 1950s, with skeletal all-night buses to ~1968).

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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Heihachi_73 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:02 pm

Television killed all-night transport? That's a new one. Didn't they stop broadcasting some time after midnight until much more recently? I still remember SBS putting up the colour bars in the 1990s, never mind FishCam on Channel 31. That said, those two channels weren't around in the 1950s (neither was Channel 10 for that matter).
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