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PTV: 2016 Night Network

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PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Craig » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:26 pm

Further details for the all night public transport in Melbourne in 2016 have now been announced - http://ptv.vic.gov.au/getting-around/night-network/

Fact sheets including route descriptions & network map for the Night Bus network - https://getinvolved.ptv.vic.gov.au/nigh ... /documents

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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby MAN 16.242 » Fri Oct 30, 2015 4:38 pm

http://www.premier.vic.gov.au/new-publi ... k-unveiled


The Andrews Labor Government has released new details of its one year trial of all-night public transport on weekends.

Minister for Public Transport Jacinta Allan today unveiled the much anticipated bus routes for the critical safety initiative, alongside a new name for the trial: Night Network.

The Night Bus network includes 21 bus routes, with 10 departing from the CBD around every half an hour, and 11 departing from suburban train stations including Dandenong, Elsternwick, and Frankston every hour.

Night Coach services will also operate to the major regional centres of Ballarat, Bendigo, Geelong and Traralgon.

On top of the bus services announced today, Night Network will add 300 train services and 250 tram services each weekend.

Night Network will mean over 70 per cent of Melburnians will have an all-night public transport option within one kilometre of their home.

Detailed service information will be provided well ahead of the commencement of the trial on 1 January 2016.

For more information on the Night Network, visit ptv.vic.gov.au/nightnetwork or call 1800 800 007 (6am- midnight) daily.

Quotes to be attributed to Minister for Public Transport Jacinta Allan

“Night Network will allow people to enjoy a night out or get to work, and get home again safe and sound.”

“Buses and coaches will be a critical part of the trial, and will bolster the hundreds of train and tram services Night Network will deliver.”

“Night Network will bring our city to life, allowing locals and visitors to enjoy the world’s most liveable city for longer, every weekend.”
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby philm » Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:35 pm

Looks good and will watch with keen interest as it (hopefully) expands next year. The maps provided are hopelessly lacking in detail though :/
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby crakening » Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:16 pm

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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Leyland B21 » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:38 pm

Something that has played on my mind. Ppl will sometimes park their car at the station. I'm going to use Narre Warren as an example. They will venture into the city. Maybe get a night rider to return. In order to return back to the car so far public has had to walk back from fountain gate? Would it take much to loop around and then maybe they could have generated a few extra loadings?
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby jamesadams7 » Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:32 pm

That could be said of many stations that the NightRider travelled near but didn't actually stop at. Heidelberg's another one that comes to find; the bus being quite far away but nominally serving it.

Regardless, I don't see why anyone would bother driving to the station in order to get the loooonggg NightRider bus home, when you can get plentiful free parking in the city any night of the week. I've always considered the NightRider as a service for people who can't/don't drive due to reasons of age, alcohol intoxication, cost, etc.
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Craig » Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:11 pm

I have gone through the routes for the new network, the following areas away from the rail system will gain overnight transport for the first time:

  • 941: Sunshine North & Kealba
  • 943: Hillside, Taylors Hill & Caroline Springs
  • 944: Seabrook & Point Cook
  • 945: Kingsville, Brooklyn, Laverton North, Truganina, Tarneit & Manor Lakes
  • 951: Parkville, Travancore, Brunswick West, Coburg West, Pascoe Vale South & Hadfield
  • 952: Maribyrnong, Aberfeldie, parts of Essendon
  • 953: Meadow Heights & Craigeburn North
  • 955: Brunswick East, Mill Park, Mill Park Lakes & Mernda
  • 969: Cremorne, St Kilda East, Caulfield North, parts of Wantirna & Heathmont
  • 978: Caulfield South, Oakleigh South, Mulgrave, Noble Park North & Dandenong North
  • 979: Bentleigh East, Oakleigh South, Clarinda, Clayton South, Springvale South, Keysborough & Dandenong South
  • 981: Doveton (in lieu of Eumemmerring)
  • 982: Cranbourne West

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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby railex » Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:10 pm

Its not very good that the Frankston to City nightrider service has been totally cancelled. It was the only one I ever used. It now means that I have to get a taxi home from the city or stay in a city hotel overnight now at great cost. The days of a cheap night out are gone. Thankfully I don't need to travel into or out of the CBD after midnight.

It would be nice if there would be every 20 minutes trains on early Sunday morning. Eg 5am to 10am period.
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby 743 » Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:38 pm

railex wrote:Its not very good that the Frankston to City nightrider service has been totally cancelled.

I don't live in Melbourne so I might be missing something, but why can't you catch the Frankston train instead?
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Craig » Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:17 pm

743 wrote:
railex wrote:Its not very good that the Frankston to City nightrider service has been totally cancelled.

I don't live in Melbourne so I might be missing something, but why can't you catch the Frankston train instead?


The Frankston Nightrider has not been totally cancelled, it has be retained as a feeder bus from Carrum to Rosebud via Frankston.

Other than the Sandringham & Frankston lines operating overnight, the 67 tram will cover the route along St Kilda Rd & Brighton Rd, the 96 tram will serve South Melbourne & St Kilda & the 979 bus departing Elsternwick will serve Nepean Hwy as far as Centre Rd in Brighton East.

The rest of the Nepean Hwy is generally within walking distance of a station between Patterson & Carrum, but failing that a short cab ride.

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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby krustyklo » Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:35 pm

Whilst that was my original thought too, to be fair the loss of some intermediate NightRider coverage is not an insignificant change. Locally, Grimshaw St and Sherbourne Rd lose out, much of which is not near the 86 tram or Hurstbridge line stations. Ironically the local newspaper had an article about the changes which incorrectly suggested the Eltham NightRider would have extra services... :evil:

As for the short taxi ride suggestion, I am guessing you have never tried to get a taxi in middle or outer suburban Melbourne on Friday and Saturday nights... (cue V981 promoting Uber as an alternative which I suspect to be less than likely to be available on a Friday/Saturday night in the 'burbs as well). Sunday night through Thursday night I had the pick of 3 or so taxis from Watsonia station to get home after the last bus, Friday or Saturday there was nothing to be seen. Unless it was driving at breakneck pace back towards the inner suburbs ignoring anyone flagging it down... :evil:
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Craig » Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:11 pm

krustyklo wrote:Whilst that was my original thought too, to be fair the loss of some intermediate NightRider coverage is not an insignificant change. Locally, Grimshaw St and Sherbourne Rd lose out, much of which is not near the 86 tram or Hurstbridge line stations.


I'm sure there'll be the odd complaint from someone who currently has a NightRider bus at the end of their street but won't come January.

They've done a good job trying to limit the losers though - one good example is 963 feeder between Ringwood & Lilydale along Maroondah Hwy, Bellara Dr & Manchester Rd, which under a more rationalised network you may argue too closely parallels the Lilydale line to warrant, even though parts are 3km away from the nearest station. There were late night 670s during the Comm Games however and those in Croydon North and Chirnside Park will no doubt appreciate an option being retained.

Maybe a similar Watsonia - Greensborough - Eltham feeder could have been the solution for your area, even returning via Lower Plenty?

There is a also a lot of duplication between the Werribee line and 944 bus, which continues to operate within a 1km of Spotswood, Newport, Seaholme, Altona, Westona, Laverton & Aircraft stations. The justification for keeping it however would be to retain coverage in Altona North & Altona Meadows, plus give new night coverage for residents of Seabrook and Point Cook.

krustyklo wrote:As for the short taxi ride suggestion, I am guessing you have never tried to get a taxi in middle or outer suburban Melbourne on Friday and Saturday nights


I have several times actually (both before & after midnight) without a huge problem in my experiences have been either getting one outside a pub in the suburbs or booking one directly. Sure I might have had to wait up to 15 mins when I've booked one a friends' place, but the same could be said trying to get one in the middle of the day much of the time. (I've had bookings accepted by drivers from as far as St Kilda for a trip from Edithvale on a weekday morning, which I promptly cancelled and then booked with the opposition).

You are right there is a belief that there is a better gain by some drivers to head empty into the City in the hope of finding a second long-haul trip to the outer suburbs, ignoring the fact they could be making money doing shorter runs in the suburbs instead.

Hopefully there are enough sensible drivers out who realise that many people will opt to get train into the suburbs and then a $20 or $30 cab home from the station rather than a $100+ fare from the City, and can make just money by taking fares from the station each hour, and a couple of other local fares from pubs or parties for the other 40 mins, without running empty for 20km for their next fare.

On a similar vain, has anyone here used the free taxi booking service on the NightRider, which appears to about to be phased out as almost everyone has a mobile phone these days. I have only tried once without much luck, when wanting to travel to Oaklegh South. I asked my driver upon boarding, he suggested I wait until to we got closer. I asked again around Elsterwick (I was alighting at Centre Rd). The driver made a request to the supervisor back at the depot, but no cab was waiting when I arrived. After waiting nearly 10 minutes and watching at least a dozen cabs heading vacant back into town on the opposite side of Nepean Hwy, I flagged down one who was enroute back to his depot around either Clayton South or Dandenong and more than happy to take me.

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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby krustyklo » Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:57 pm

Maybe a similar Watsonia - Greensborough - Eltham feeder could have been the solution for your area, even returning via Lower Plenty?


Possibly, although I'd be tempted to run it from Bundoora to Watsonia along the old route as well - at that time of the night it isn't far for the bus to travel - it is easily a 40-50 minute walk from Watsonia to Plenty Rd, but only about 5 minutes each way on the bus. Maybe a loop along Greenwood Dve, Plenty Rd, Grimshaw St, Watsonia Rd, Greensborough Bypass, Grimshaw St, Main Rd, St Helena Rd, Karingal Dve, Sherbourne Rd, Bridge Rd, Main Rd to Eltham station, Main Rd, Lower Plenty Rd, Greensborough Rd and Watsonia Rd back to the start would provide that coverage, and would take about an hour anyway. Better still, if it started and finished in Bundoora, it isn't far from the depot and reduces out of service dead running.

Frankly, if Healesville and Woori Yallock need a NightRider then the above isn't so ridiculous given the service exists already.

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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Craig » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:30 pm

krustyklo wrote:Possibly, although I'd be tempted to run it from Bundoora to Watsonia along the old route as well - at that time of the night it isn't far for the bus to travel - it is easily a 40-50 minute walk from Watsonia to Plenty Rd, but only about 5 minutes each way on the bus. Maybe a loop along Greenwood Dve, Plenty Rd, Grimshaw St, Watsonia Rd, Greensborough Bypass, Grimshaw St, Main Rd, St Helena Rd, Karingal Dve, Sherbourne Rd, Bridge Rd, Main Rd to Eltham station, Main Rd, Lower Plenty Rd, Greensborough Rd and Watsonia Rd back to the start would provide that coverage, and would take about an hour anyway. Better still, if it started and finished in Bundoora, it isn't far from the depot and reduces out of service dead running.


I'm confused at to why it goes via Watsonia Station twice?

I'd still recommend commencing at Watsonia, heading along Greenwood Dr then Plenty Rd, Grimshaw St, Main St then as above? My initial thoughts were simply along Watsonia Rd and then right into Grimshaw St.

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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby krustyklo » Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:09 pm

I'm confused at to why it goes via Watsonia Station twice?


Because I'd be slightly annoyed at going 10-15 minutes out of my way to go towards Greensborough or further along the route, although thinking about it, I suppose you would either walk or go to Greensborough in the first place.

I'd still recommend commencing at Watsonia, heading along Greenwood Dr then Plenty Rd, Grimshaw St, Main St then as above? My initial thoughts were simply along Watsonia Rd and then right into Grimshaw St.


That works - it covers the original route still as well as providing extra coverage along Greenwood Drive and avoiding having to find a turning point at the Bundoora end.
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby msheldrick » Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:08 pm

Meanwhile, apart from in the CBD (where it will now depart from Swanston/Lonsdale streets), the Doncaster Night Bus has remained exactly the same, you'd think this would've been a good opportunity to run Routes out of Mitcham or Blackburn, or even feeders buses out of Park & Ride
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Andy O » Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:45 pm

Will be interesting to see if the Current Cranbourne trainlink service sees any additional all night trips to accomodate all night train running. Also seems rather odd that the 982 only travels half way down Camms road to Monahans. The remainer of Cranbourne West and all the newer estates remain a fair distance from any reasonable transport overnight.
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Craig » Sun Nov 08, 2015 8:44 pm

msheldrick wrote:Meanwhile, apart from in the CBD (where it will now depart from Swanston/Lonsdale streets), the Doncaster Night Bus has remained exactly the same, you'd think this would've been a good opportunity to run Routes out of Mitcham or Blackburn, or even feeders buses out of Park & Ride


To improve access to Doncaster region overnight I'd have two thought-bubbles...

Run 907 overnight every half hour, faster option home for younger apartment dwellers around Doncaster Hill and those further down Doncaster Rd, and new coverage to Donvale. 961 retained, but instead of running of a loop, terminate at The Pines and make it bi-directional - effectively a 905/908 hybrid - maybe a couple of trips continue onto Warrandyte? No-one is going to ride the full loop to get back to Templestowe Lower, so coverage lost negligible.

An alternative is run DART all night but hourly? 908 a feeder as during the day. Extremely legible, High St in Templestowe Lower gains, as does Donvale and Warrandyte.

*Cue comments that Warrandyte has not enough population to justify overnight buses*

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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby krustyklo » Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:00 pm

Meanwhile, apart from in the CBD (where it will now depart from Swanston/Lonsdale streets), the Doncaster Night Bus has remained exactly the same, you'd think this would've been a good opportunity to run Routes out of Mitcham or Blackburn, or even feeders buses out of Park & Ride


Not really surprising given it is the NightRider route least affected by running trains or the limited tram routes all night. If it is deemed acceptable up until now to run it as it is, then no reason to change.

Run 907 overnight every half hour, faster option home for younger apartment dwellers around Doncaster Hill and those further down Doncaster Rd


Not especially, isn't the 966 catering for this market already and still under the new network? Before the 961, it was the main NightRider to Doncaster, the 961 really caters for Templestowe and The Pines / East Doncaster.

An alternative is run DART all night but hourly? 908 a feeder as during the day. Extremely legible, High St in Templestowe Lower gains, as does Donvale and Warrandyte.


TBH I prefer this idea for legibility. I wonder how the number of buses used would compare between the 2 NightRider routes around Manningham compared with a 907 with feeder buses on the 905 and 908 from the Park and Ride to The Pines? I suspect you may even get a half hourly service for not a lot more than the current half hourly service, bearing in mind the 109 runs every 30 minutes overnight for existing passengers around Kew. Maybe a compromise would be run the 907 along the Studley Park Rd and Doncaster Rd instead of the freeway - I doubt it would take much longer in the middle of the night.

*Cue comments that Warrandyte has not enough population to justify overnight buses*


Probably more than Healesville and Woori Yallock...
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby jamesadams7 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:08 pm

krustyklo wrote:Probably more than Healesville and Woori Yallock...


I honestly cannot understand how the Healesville Loop NightRider was retained.
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Craig » Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:50 am

Schematic maps for the Night Bus network have now been released by PTV, showing pick-up locations for each of the 21 routes

https://getinvolved.ptv.vic.gov.au/nigh ... /documents

They have improved the maps over the 2008 schematic versions by avoiding writing the street names vertically, but I'd still prefer the more legible standard maps, as appeared in late 2010.

jamesadams7 wrote:
krustyklo wrote:Probably more than Healesville and Woori Yallock...

I honestly cannot understand how the Healesville Loop NightRider was retained.


Simple, the political fall-out of cutting the service would be far greater than upsetting the couple of dozen regulars who use it. But Healesville will continue to be better served in the early hours of the morning than the weekend 685 offering, including one gap of nearly four hours between buses on a Sunday! :roll:

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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby crakening » Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:39 pm

Looks like the area between Preston and Coburg is losing service - it was previously served by the Epping Nightrider service. Options for this area could've included running the 1 or 11, but 1 is replaced by a bus service, and 11 is too close to the 86 and train line to be really viable. It's not well served by PT during the day anyway (looking at you 526) so it won't be a dealbreaker. Disappointing nonetheless.
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Re: PTV: 2016 Night Network

Postby Craig » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:53 pm

krustyklo wrote:Maybe a compromise would be run the 907 along the Studley Park Rd and Doncaster Rd instead of the freeway - I doubt it would take much longer in the middle of the night.


I did consider this option, but my concern was then cutting the link between Box Hill and Doncaster. With the all night trains and trams into Box Hill, plus both having some nightlife options, my preference would be to keep it. Of course you could continue up to Heidelberg, but then would it begin to compete with the 905 & 908 running overnight too?

crakening wrote:Looks like the area between Preston and Coburg is losing service - it was previously served by the Epping Nightrider service. Options for this area could've included running the 1 or 11, but 1 is replaced by a bus service, and 11 is too close to the 86 and train line to be really viable. It's not well served by PT during the day anyway (looking at you 526) so it won't be a dealbreaker. Disappointing nonetheless.


The area between Coburg & Preston remains between 1.5km to 2km of alternative options in at least one direction - whether it be the 955 bus on Moreland Rd, Coburg/Batman on the Upfield line, the 19 tram up Sydney Rd or Bell/Preston on the South Morang line. Would have been hard for PTV to justify retaining a bus along here.

Near me, I have noticed it will no longer be possible for Frankston North, Carrum Downs & Belvedere residents to get home directly from a night out in Frankston - the inbound 970 will now run directly up Nepean Hwy.

I would have liked to have seen a Hastings service via Langwarrin. Along Cranbourne-Frankston Rd, Southgateway, Centre Rd, North Rd, Warrandyte Rd, Baxter-Tooraddin Rd, Frankston-Flinders Rd, Coolart Rd, Eramosa Rd West, Frankston-Flinders Rd, Park Rd, Jones Rd, Mornington-Tyabb Rd and Frankston-Flinders Rd, and returning straight along Frankston-Flinders Rd. A late trip might continue onto Crib Point serving HMAS Cerberus. Of course, running the Stony Point line to at least midnight 7 days is a higher priority for Westernport communities.

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All-night transport in Melbourne

Postby Roderick Smith » Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:56 am

Roderick.

Safety the key to 24-hour transport inspection trial.
November 14, 2015 Sunday Herald Sun.
The State Government has vowed inspectors will start patrolling the night network, checking tickets and making sure intoxicated passengers do not cause trouble.
FARE dodgers and drunk passengers will be targeted by authorities on night trains and buses during Melbourne’s first 24-hour public transport trial.
The State Government has vowed inspectors will patrol the night network, checking tickets and making sure intoxicated passengers do not cause trouble.
Transport Minister Jacinta Allan refused to reveal the number of ticket inspectors and officers on the network but said there would be no free rides. “Authorised Officers (AOs) will be on duty to ensure people pay their way and to help keep passengers safe,” Ms Allan said.
The new transport timetable begins January 1 with buses and trams departing the city about every half an hour.
Trains will depart from Flinders St every hour.
Myki fares and fines will be the same as for the current services; however, the system clocks over at 3am.
Anyone who touches on after that time will not be entitled to a return fare included as part of the two-hour daily fare from the previous day.
A Public Transport Victoria spokesman said the number of authorised officers rostered would be based on the number of services being run.
It is understood the department believes AOs could experience increased violence due to more intoxicated people on the night network. This would be used to determine the numbers deployed.
Metro figures obtained by the Sunday Herald Sun this year revealed 50 inspectors were attacked between January 2014 and February 2015 while they were checking tickets.
There also have been 15 attacks on station staff, including those announcing late trains.
Rail Tram and Bus Union secretary Luba Grigorovich said AOs were well trained to ensure safety on the network.
“Given there will be people who are intoxicated, you want to be sure there are enough AOs on the trains,” she said.
“They are the unsung heroes and AOs have the ability to check tickets and they are responsible for safety.
“I would expect the company and the Government to realise the implications of not having enough.”
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victor ... 9c4eee8c15
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Re: All-night transport in Melbourne

Postby Fleet Lists » Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:55 am

I have changed a number of your posts where you have < and > around links - these are being removed so that the link can be clicked. Please do not put < and > around links.
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