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Artist's impression of new Southland Station

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Artist's impression of new Southland Station

Postby system improver » Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:45 pm

Image

It seems to have slipped under the radar, or perhaps I missed the post elsewhere, but the promise to build a "$13 million" new Southland Station that, according to analysts on election night, was significant in the election of the Baillieu Government, is no more.

"A government spokeswoman... signalled the deadline and the price tag for a new station at the vast Southland shopping centre had shifted, telling The Age: ''The commitment was for $13 million in the first term to start works on Southland Station.'' No date was given for when the station would be completed or at what overall cost."

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/south ... z28gsllnIx

So now, apparently, the promise, despite the clear wording before the election, should always have been understood to be a promise to build it at some unknown cost, no matter how large, and at some unknown date, perhaps in 3980!

The other thing that I missed was righteous indignation from the shock jocks and the tabloid media about this "betrayal of trust" and the labelling of the "betrayer" as also a liar. Perhaps in 3980.
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Re: Artist's impression of new Southland Station

Postby DJ737 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:42 pm

Hi there
I "liked" this post more for the photo than the OP's topic, now where is that, I'm guessing its Langwarrin or Leawarra, but i'll think I'll go with Langwarrin, as Leawarra always had a black & white enamel nameboard.

Anyway back to the topic, on the 27/03/11 I posted this :
"Those who voted for a Liberal state government in the belief that PT was going to get better, were either stupid and/or not quite up to scratch on their Victorian history." It seems that I wasn't far off the mark.

Cheers
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Re: Artist's impression of new Southland Station

Postby system improver » Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:05 pm

It's Rail Motor Stopping Place 15, near Cribb Point, now called Morradoo, with the photo taken in 1977 by Bruce Tilley (who else!). Ah, the good old days (of travelling in a Walker rail motor anyway).

And, alas, being proved correct doesn't build new infrastructure - cheaper or quicker or at all. Almost stunned silence from the PTAA, still basking in their election "victory".
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Re: Artist's impression of new Southland Station

Postby RailwayBus » Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:43 am

system improver wrote:Almost stunned silence from the PTAA, still basking in their election "victory".


PTAA?
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Re: Artist's impression of new Southland Station

Postby National Link » Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:05 pm

Why am I not surprised about this news? It was obvious that the promise to build Southland Station was an empty one right from the start. And the giveaway to that is the fact that no deadline for completion was given. :evil:
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Re: Artist's impression of new Southland Station

Postby system improver » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:04 am

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Re: Artist's impression of new Southland Station

Postby tranzitjim » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:51 am

Some questions I would like to ask are....

....why not just get Southland to pay, by some kind of rates levy or other tax?

....what about plans for a third track between Moorabbin and Cheltenham, would there be room in the new Southland platform to permit a third track through it?
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Re: Artist's impression of new Southland Station

Postby RailwayBus » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:57 pm

tranzitjim wrote:....what about plans for a third track between Moorabbin and Cheltenham, would there be room in the new Southland platform to permit a third track through it?

We're having enough problems trying to get a new platform, let alone a third track. Baby steps, Jim, baby steps.
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Re: Artist's impression of new Southland Station

Postby Peter1805 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:29 pm

tranzitjim wrote:....why not just get Southland to pay, by some kind of rates levy or other tax?



A rate or tax charged specifically and solely against a single ratepayer/taxpayer such as the owners of Southland would be unconstitutional.

Getting them to agree to pay a share, large or otherwise, would be the way to go, and this it seems is what the Vic Government is trying to get them to do, on the basis that they would then also get the exclusive right to build shops, etc above the new station.

Not sure whether in the current retail climate, with internet traders threatening Aussie retail sales, etc.. this is going to happen, which probably means the station is not going to happen. The Libs will only commit to $13 million, which is about a third of what it would cost, apparently.
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Re: Artist's impression of new Southland Station

Postby dex » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:44 pm

For those playing along at home, 514 posts. That's all it took for Jim not to mention anything to do with Smartbus.
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Re: Artist's impression of new Southland Station

Postby system improver » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:54 am

Wasn't too far out:

Image

"A new railway station at Southland shopping centre is likely to have few of the amenities voters were promised at the last state election, because the Coalition grossly underestimated the project's cost and is now looking to build it as cheaply as possible.

The planned station would be built without the promised waiting room, lifts, bike cage, two-bay bus interchange and drop-off and pick-up zone, according to state government documents. It would also have no public toilets, and just 10 per cent of the platform area would have shelter, although it would have facilities for protective services officers.

Both the Coalition and Labor committed at the 2010 election to build the station, with the Coalition heavily undercutting Labor's $45 million costing, promising to build it to the same standard for just $13 million

Lengthy negotiations with Southland owner Westfield, which the Napthine government hopes will help pay for the station, will delay its opening until at least 2016-17, some six years after the Coalition made its promise. When it does open, it will become the fourth-busiest station on the Frankston line, attracting 4400 passengers a day, modelling by transport consultancy Sinclair Knight Merz forecasts."



http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/derai ... 2tzu6.html
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Re: Artist's impression of new Southland Station

Postby stajourneyman » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:54 am

I'm assuming, therefore, that the train is called 'The Southlander'.
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Re: Artist's impression of new Southland Station

Postby National Link » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:58 pm

system improver wrote:Wasn't too far out:

"A new railway station at Southland shopping centre is likely to have few of the amenities voters were promised at the last state election, because the Coalition grossly underestimated the project's cost and is now looking to build it as cheaply as possible.

The planned station would be built without the promised waiting room, lifts, bike cage, two-bay bus interchange and drop-off and pick-up zone, according to state government documents. It would also have no public toilets, and just 10 per cent of the platform area would have shelter, although it would have facilities for protective services officers.

Both the Coalition and Labor committed at the 2010 election to build the station, with the Coalition heavily undercutting Labor's $45 million costing, promising to build it to the same standard for just $13 million

Lengthy negotiations with Southland owner Westfield, which the Napthine government hopes will help pay for the station, will delay its opening until at least 2016-17, some six years after the Coalition made its promise. When it does open, it will become the fourth-busiest station on the Frankston line, attracting 4400 passengers a day, modelling by transport consultancy Sinclair Knight Merz forecasts."



http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/derai ... 2tzu6.html


I thought this was shelved? In my honest opinion, it won't happen anytime soon.

The plan for no waiting room, pick-up/drop-off, and bus interchange does not surprise me a bit. That should be expected from the Government having undercut Labor's original price by 2/3rds.

But I must question the need for a drop-off/pick-up zone and bus interchange in the first place. Installing those facilities would chew up a significant portion of the ground level car-park located off Bay Road beside the railway line, which would probably not make Westfield's owners happy about that. Plus, although it is located on the other side of the Neapen Highway, the Bus Terminal is, in my eyes, sufficient enough as it is, and I do not see the need for another 2 spaces, on the other side of Southland. And the pick-up/drop-off zone? Please - that in my eyes would be pointless.

PS. Photo removed from quote to conserve space.
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Re: Artist's impression of new Southland Station

Postby Craig » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:52 am

National Link wrote:I thought this was shelved? In my honest opinion, it won't happen anytime soon.


When the 2013-4 state budget was released in May, the government stated the budget would include "funding for the construction of a new train station at Southland, subject to finalisation of commercial negotiations with the owners of Southland Shopping Centre" - media release from the member for Mordialloc. An exact cost wasn't provided though.

National Link wrote:But I must question the need for a drop-off/pick-up zone and bus interchange in the first place. Installing those facilities would chew up a significant portion of the ground level car-park located off Bay Road beside the railway line, which would probably not make Westfield's owners happy about that. Plus, although it is located on the other side of the Neapen Highway, the Bus Terminal is, in my eyes, sufficient enough as it is, and I do not see the need for another 2 spaces, on the other side of Southland. And the pick-up/drop-off zone? Please - that in my eyes would be pointless.


Obviously I can understand Westfield not wanting to allow commuters to park their cars at Southland all day, but it's reasonable to expect bus bays & drop-off zones be included in the design.

Given the proximity to Bay Rd & Nepean Hwy, it's a given that some locals will ask a family member for the lift to the station or to be collected on their way home, as happens at most other stations on the network. If you don't include a drop-off / pick zone, people will find informal points instead, which would potentially be unsafe or illegal.

Rather than the stated bus interchange be additional bays, I would hope the full-scale plan would have seen the relocating the bus interchange to be adjacent the new station, with the current bus interchange converted to undercover parking. This would allow people living in suburbs like Moorabbin East, Heatherton & Clarinda easy access to the Frankston line using routes such as 631, 767 & 821 which otherwise don't serve stations on the Frankston line. Leaving the interchange in the current location would mean almost zero passengers would bother to make the transfer due to the indirect walk through the centre or having to negotiate busy Nepean Hwy at ground level.

Even if there is a small reduction of total parking spaces at the centre to make both facilities a reality, the station should reduce the number of people trying to find a park on weekends given the excellent 10 minute train services that would stop directly outside the centre. There is also scope to build a multi-deck carpark above the relocated bus interchange if Westfield feels it's warranted.

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Re: Artist's impression of new Southland Station

Postby RailwayBus » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:09 pm

Just as a point of observation, but there is currently a circus taking up many of the parking spaces beside the Frankston line. Now I'm sure that they accepted this as it would probably attract shoppers into the centre either before or after performances, but a train station and the optional extras being described above would do the same.
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Re: Artist's impression of new Southland Station

Postby V981 » Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:05 pm

While I dont dispute that a station at Southland will provide a sizable benefit to some in the community, I would dare say there are a number of rail projects that could probably be considered a lot more important than assisting those who are merely venturing out to get 30% off all knitted jumpers at Supre.

There are a number of grade separation projects which are vital, with Springvale already on the go, as well as the plan to lay additional tracks on some lines to increase capacity.

Sadly, those wanting to get themselves a bargain on shoes at Diana Ferrari, will have to settle witch catching a bus from Cheltenham Station. :roll:
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Re: Artist's impression of new Southland Station

Postby Peter1805 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:10 pm

RailwayBus wrote:Just as a point of observation, but there is currently a circus taking up many of the parking spaces beside the Frankston line. Now I'm sure that they accepted this as it would probably attract shoppers into the centre either before or after performances, but a train station and the optional extras being described above would do the same.


Bit like the Victorian Liberal Government... They offered us improvements to public transport.. Instead they gave us a circus.
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Re: Artist's impression of new Southland Station

Postby BroadGauge » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:21 am

The planned station would be built without the promised waiting room, lifts, bike cage, two-bay bus interchange and drop-off and pick-up zone, according to state government documents. It would also have no public toilets, and just 10 per cent of the platform area would have shelter

How come they can afford to construct oversized facilities at stupid places like Diggers Rest, a station lightly used at any time, but can't put the same facilities in at a place that people will use?

That station even has a newly refurbished enclosed waiting room/ticket office.. pity that it's an unmanned station :twisted:
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Re: Artist's impression of new Southland Station

Postby RailwayBus » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:11 pm

Diggers Rest was paid for by the previous government, who were willing to spend more.
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Re: Artist's impression of new Southland Station

Postby 1whoknows » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:54 pm

or waste more as the case may be....
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Re: Artist's impression of new Southland Station

Postby Craig » Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:23 pm

Victorian Government wrote:Early works to start on Frankston line’s Southland station
Wednesday, 23 April 2014

Construction works will soon begin on a new $21 million Southland Station with Premier Denis Napthine and Minister for Public Transport Terry Mulder today announcing that the Victorian Coalition Government has reached an agreement with the owners of Southland Shopping Centre regarding access to the site.

Dr Napthine said the agreement would enable to the Government to begin early works with the station set to be complete in 2016.

“This new station will cater for growth in Melbourne’s south-eastern suburbs and greatly improve access to this major shopping centre,” Dr Napthine said.

“The idea to build Southland Station has been around since the shopping centre opening in 1968 and I am pleased that our Government has the economic credentials and commitment to turn this idea into a reality.

“When complete, this station will become the fourth busiest on the Frankston line with 4,400 passengers expected to utilise this new service every day.

“With $100 million already committed to upgrading the Frankston line, this is yet another example of the Coalition Government delivering more services to move more people, more often,” Dr Napthine said.

Passengers will also be able to take advantage of the Coalition Government’s recently announced cheaper public transport initiatives.

Mr Mulder said passengers travelling to Southland from Zone 2 will continue to pay lower Zone 2 fares, but commuters to or from Zone 1 will pay no more than a Zone 1 fare from 1 January 2015.

“The new station will also ease congestion at neighbouring stations and make using public transport, to reach Southland’s shops, easier and more accessible,” Mr Mulder said.

“Early works will provide valuable site-specific information for the station design, which is expected to include extensive lighting, closed circuit camera security surveillance (CCTV) and facilities for Protective Services Officers.

“The station will also be fully accessible with ramps and access to both platforms via a pedestrian underpass.

“The community will soon notice activity as the project team moves in to carry out site investigations, which will inform the new station’s design.

“The Coalition Government looks forward to continuing to work with Westfield and AMP Capital through the design, investigation and construction process leading to the opening of the new station.

“We appreciate the co-operation of the shopping centre owners and are keen to minimise the effect on shoppers during construction,” Mr Mulder said.

Public Transport Victoria will work with the City of Kingston, Bayside City Council, the community and local residents throughout all stages of the project.

“This project is an excellent example of the state government working together with local government and the private sector to work towards a world-class transport network for Melbourne,” Mr Mulder said.

Member for Sandringham Murray Thompson said that Southland station would be welcomed by staff at the shopping centre and local residents alike.

“It will be easy to step off the train and within a few minutes be shopping or enjoying Southland's food court,” Mr Thompson said.

Following early works, major construction is expected to commence in 2015.


PTV wrote:New station at Southland

Latest news
On 23 April 2014, Premier Denis Napthine together with Mr Terry Mulder, Minister for Public Transport, announced the commencement of early works on the Frankston line’s newest station near Southland shopping centre.

Early pre-construction investigative works are now underway, with major construction due to commence in 2015. The station is expected to open in 2016.

Early investigative works will include environmental surveys, vegetation clearing, soil sampling and geotechnical investigations. These works will inform the station design, which will be open for community feedback later this year.

Public Transport Victoria is committed to engaging with key stakeholders and community feedback will be sought throughout all stages of the project.

For more information, view the media release from Premier Napthine.

Project description
The new station at Southland Shopping Centre will be located on the Frankston line between Highett and Cheltenham stations.

The project is currently in planning phase, with early investigative works currently underway which will inform the station design.

Station features to be included in the design will include:
  • Protective Services Officer facitilities
  • Platform lighting and CCTV camera surveillance
  • Ramp and stair access to both platforms
  • Seating and canopy cover
  • Passenger information display screens
  • Pedestrian underpass between platforms
  • Myki readers

Project benefits
The new station will improve public transport access for the local community and provide access to Southland shopping centre for shoppers and staff.


The Age wrote:No public toilets for new $21m Southland train station
Deborah Gough

Southland shopping centre’s train station will have none of the bells and whistles promised by the state government while in opposition, including public toilets, and will now cost $8 million more.

Construction work will begin in 2015 and it is due for completion in 2016, Transport Minister Terry Mulder announced on Wednesday.

In 2010, while campaigning in opposition, the government said it could build the station for $13 million compared with Labor’s $45 million costing.

For $13 million the then opposition said it could include a waiting room, lifts, bike cage, two-bay bus interchange and drop-off and pick-up zone.

None of these are now planned and there will be no public toilets at the station.

Instead, Mr Mulder said the station would have two platforms, a pedestrian underpass, canopies, protective services officer facilities and closed-circuit television – ‘‘all the modern amenities that you would expect of a state-of-the-art railway station’’.

He said the station did not need to supply facilities that were already at the shopping centre, but conceded they would only be available during the centre’s trading hours.

He said the shopping centre had easy pedestrian access and a bus interchange with 13 bus routes feeding into it.

‘‘There are also taxi drop-off points as well and there are also facilities inside the shopping centre such as toilets etcetera. So we didn’t see a need to duplicate those types of services here at the station in their own right,’’ he said.

Southland station is expected to have 4400 passengers a day, and modelling by transport consultancy Sinclair Knight Merz forecast the station could become the fourth biggest on the Frankston line.

Mr Mulder said the station had been promised since 1880.

‘‘It was 1880 when the Frankston line was built [and] they did discuss putting a railway station at this location,’’ Mr Mulder said.

‘‘In 1968, when Southland was built, it was discussed again, and the former Labor government over 11 years discussed putting a station here at Southland,’’ he said.

Mr Mulder said it would take some of the pressure off nearby Cheltenham and Highett stations.

He said Southland’s owner, Westfield and AMP Capital, had not contributed any money to the project despite long negotiations, which had added to the higher cost.

‘‘We have been negotiating long and hard with the owners of this facility to get the best possible outcome we could for taxpayers,’’ Mr Mulder said.

Mark Wild, chief executive officer of Public Transport Victoria, said the station would be built within the narrow rail corridor beside the tracks through a ‘‘clever design’’. He said four car-parking spaces would be lost as part of the entrance to the station.

Large metal gantries above the tracks would also go, he said. He would not release the plans until nearby residents had a chance to view them.

Opposition public transport spokeswoman Jill Hennessy described the announcement as a Southland ‘‘car park stunt’’.

‘‘It’s been three years and five months since this government promised this station and now on the eve of an election apparently it can be delivered, although over budget and lacking construction detail,’’ Ms Hennessy said.

‘‘If elected Labor will have to review this project as essential facilities such as toilets have been left out of the government’s plan.’’


Hmm, so almost four years after being elected, they are have only just come to an agreement with Westfield regarding the station (who won't be contributing to the cost) and now can start detailed design works - at this rate, we can be hopeful that the new station might open a few months before the 2018 election. :twisted:

The lack of a relocated bus interchange from the latest plans is quite disappointing, but was expected in order to keep the costs down compared to the ALPs costing. I am less concerned about the lack of toilets however, if if provided, most shoppers would make use of the cleaner facilities inside the centre before they head to the station anyway.

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Re: Artist's impression of new Southland Station

Postby system improver » Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:31 pm

Looks like the original "artist's impression" was slightly over engineered.
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Re: Artist's impression of new Southland Station

Postby tonyw » Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:47 pm

Do we really even need this train station?

I notice there is no mention of additional car parking so where are the passengers going to park? Westfield will not be prepared to give up shopper car parks for commuters.

If there is no all day parking for commuters they will not go to the station.

So then will it only be used by shoppers? In that case Westfield should be contributing to the cost.
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Re: Artist's impression of new Southland Station

Postby krustyklo » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:22 pm

Do we really even need this train station?


Yes, it is next to a major traffic generator (a large shopping centre). It will benefit the railway by providing significant counter-peak traffic one would think.

I notice there is no mention of additional car parking so where are the passengers going to park? Westfield will not be prepared to give up shopper car parks for commuters.


Presumably the same way other shopping centres currently do it - offer free parking for 3 hours then expensive paid parking for longer stays. Better still for the centre management, they can blame introducing the car parking charges on having to discourage naughty commuters whilst reaping extra revenue from both commuters and shoppers overstaying the 3 hours. Win-win.

If there is no all day parking for commuters they will not go to the station.


I don't think commuters are the target audience somehow. Even so, car parking charges don't seem to discourage commuters parking at Box Hill. I doubt Southland will be much different - I am sure there will be some consultants with expertise in yield management hired very shortly to work out how much to charge to maximise the use of otherwise empty car parking spaces that would only be filled in busier periods like weekends and Christmas.

So then will it only be used by shoppers? In that case Westfield should be contributing to the cost.


Westfield aren't stupid, unlike the current government. They have nothing to gain from the station being built sooner. On the other hand, the government had a lot to lose by not being able to look like the station was going to be built through some sort of works commencing before the next election in order to show the marginal electorates along the Frankston line that they could keep the promises they made last election in order to have enough credibility to promise even more yummy pork for voters to think about voting them back in. All Westfield had to do was wait and they would get a free station built with 4400 new shopping centre customers, car parking revenue from commuters using the car park, with the only real disbenefit being the loss of 4 car parking spaces on the edge of their property. Seems like an excellent deal for them - why would they pay? And in a free market economy no one can make them - whatever benefits they may receive they never asked for the station in the first place. Hence there is no moral obligation for them to cough up any cash.

Now for the first pictures of the inevitable billboard put up ASAP in order for it to be highly visible during the state election in less than 6 months time - seems like reducing government spin is a more easily broken promise. :roll:
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Re: Artist's impression of new Southland Station

Postby tonyw » Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:30 pm

Excellent analysis, as usual.
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