Huntingdale to Monash Uni Clayton shuttle

[system improver]

Unless buses can control the timing of the light sequence on exit from Monash, there is never going to be a 4 minute frequency to Huntingdale. Bunching will inevitably occur. However, it may not make much difference to the passengers who will have plenty of seats to sit on given the number of routes and buses on the service (601, 630, 630A and 900). In any event, the connecting trains are still running every 15 minutes for most of the day, although there are extras at peak. If the stop at Monash was an island stop, then buses could enter and exit at the same time. However, that would mean passengers having to cross in front of buses, not all that safe.

And just one point for revenue, it's CDC (Comfort Delgro Cabcharge) running the buses In Australia, not the parent company CDG (Comfort Delgro).

[revenue]

Observations around lunch time saw the 3 buses pass by McDonalds on the Princes Hwy corner 1 minute apart - i.e. 3 buses were basically at the ends together, but it is only the first day, personally I'd like to see them try and keep spread by departing 4 minutes apart, but then they'll lose trips, which is probably preferable than having 3 buses in 2 minutes then a 10 minute gap as was happening today.

Agreed - especially as they also have the 900 and 630 buses. These comments are all justifying the decision to start the 601 a week before semester 2 - it will take a few days for the bus company to get it together.

[Volvo_B9R]

it will take a few days for the bus company to get it together.

Their name is Eastrans FYI. Part of CDC

[revenue]

Their name is Eastrans FYI. Part of CDC

Quite right...damn this cold!

[venturatiger]

Hi, in reply to craig's comment re logging off at Huntingdale, there is no reason why the driver logging off can't do it as soon as he has left Monash as there is no stops in between. then the incoming driver only has to log on.

Although given no money is being taken, yes it would make sense for a PM for each bus& stay logged on all day

Cheers Venturatiger

[Mike M]

Pleased to read that there is a flyer for the 601. Pity that there were none on the buses or being handed out at either terminus seeing as it was the first day.

[Craig]

Many many thanks to revenue for commenting on our numerous observations. Can’t argue with what you have said. Hope you can recover from your cold ASAP to check out the route for yourself.

Couple more things I thought that are worth sharing..

* It was good to see some passengers make use of the counter-direction buses during the morning peak, especially given it was the first day. One trip for instance dropped off about 5 passengers.

* It might be worth changing the livery on the front of the 60 buses to an orange colour. When I was taking shots of the buses mid-way along North Rd, it was hard to distinguish from more than 100m away which buses were on 601 & which buses were operating 630 as both are white. Given that less than 20% of buses now stop all stops, I can imagine it will be frustrating for passengers at the stops between Monash & Huntingdale trying to work out when their bus is coming. The 900 buses are obvious given their silver livery.

* 601 Stop timetable at Monash Uni states the non-university semester timetable only operates during the primary & secondary school semesters. However, given there will still be 630 & 900 services all year, this seems adequate.

Kind Regards


Craog

[awatea36]

Well they will just have to go back to school so they can NOW read the desto's

[revenue]

Pleased to read that there is a flyer for the 601. Pity that there were none on the buses or being handed out at either terminus seeing as it was the first day.

Wait until uni goes back - this week isn't the main game - wait until the uni students are back! Besides, the brochures will be best targetted to non-users. I love the 601 - but there's no point spending thousands on advertising and promotion when you can reach your target market through other means. Monash Uni has been great - and they will get the word out. Very different marketing requirements to most bus routes.

* It was good to see some passengers make use of the counter-direction buses during the morning peak, especially given it was the first day. One trip for instance dropped off about 5 passengers

It will be interesting to see where they are going. Possibly using the Monash as a park and ride facility in the non semester term. I suspect a lot of students will start using the 601/train to get between the Clayton and Caulfield campus, rather than the 900 or intercampus buses. Especially, if the train frequencies are increased off-peak.

* It might be worth changing the livery on the front of the 60 buses to an orange colour. When I was taking shots of the buses mid-way along North Rd, it was hard to distinguish from more than 100m away which buses were on 601 & which buses were operating 630 as both are white. Given that less than 20% of buses now stop all stops, I can imagine it will be frustrating for passengers at the stops between Monash & Huntingdale trying to work out when their bus is coming. The 900 buses are obvious given their silver livery.

Not a bad idea. Livery is expensive to change, but certainly something we can look at. However, the 900 only has a limited number of stops on that section of road as well.

* 601 Stop timetable at Monash Uni states the non-university semester timetable only operates during the primary & secondary school semesters. However, given there will still be 630 & 900 services all year, this seems adequate.

We will be taking a very close look at patronage outside of semester times to see what is going on and the level of service required.

[BroadGauge]

I noticed around 12:30pm that it seems to be up to the drivers as to how long they choose to layover for.

For example, one driver laid over for about 10 minutes at Monash between trips, during which time he was busy chatting to the driver of the 630, and then chatting to some guy who pulled up in a car full of small children that parked in the 601 bus bay infront of him. In that time another 601 bus came in, stopped briefly then departed.

On the bus I rode, after unloading/loading pax at Monash, the driver quickly crossed off something on his run sheet then continued driving, making a very short turnaround. I noticed at Huntingdale there was a 630A shuttle awaiting departure, is there really a point in still continuing to run this service unless the majority of 630A patronage is from intermediate stops?

[tranzitjim]

It is a delight to see Revenue back online again.

I wonder where dBowen is? or is he exclusively on some other website?


Now, I have been waiting ever since 903 started to 'do the whole route' but am yet to do that. Since then I have 902 and 901 to do. now this new 601. I think I should start getting out a bit.

I wish to ask what is #630A?

[Connex]

I wish to ask what is #630A?

630A is essentially the 601, except it's not a prepaid service and also picks up and drops off at all Route 630 stops between Huntingdale Station and Monash University.

[tranzitjim]

I wish to ask what is #630A?

630A is essentially the 601, except it's not a prepaid service and also picks up and drops off at all Route 630 stops between Huntingdale Station and Monash University.

Thanks Connex.

So we have 601 & 630A.

Why was it not 630E and 630A?

Are there equal amounts of 630a to 601?

[Connex]

So we have 601 & 630A.

Why was it not 630E and 630A?

Are there equal amounts of 630a to 601?

I've been advised that 630A IS an express service between Huntingdale and Monash University, but is not a pre-paid service. I apologise for any confusion I may have caused.

630A runs at 15min intervals between 8am and 6pm, in-between regular 630 services.

The 601 runs every 4 minutes between 7am and 7pm, and then every 12 minutes from 7pm till 9.30pm.

As for the numbering of the service, one would presume that it was numbered in a similar fashion to the 401, which is also an express, pre-paid service linking a university to a railway station.

[system improver]

...630A runs at 15min intervals between 8am and 6pm, in-between regular 630 services...

Because the normal service (630) runs every 20 minutes and the 630A every 15 minutes, there are times when they both leave at the same time. So it is really not an "in-between" service. I suspect it will be eliminated if the trial 601 becomes permanent.

[revenue]

I noticed around 12:30pm that it seems to be up to the drivers as to how long they choose to layover for.

Not exactly, no. I understand that the company has been trying a number of operational approaches over the last two days - which justifies my recommendation to give them a week to get it right before uni goes back. I don't think they have gotten it right yet - but they are learning all the time.

For example, one driver laid over for about 10 minutes at Monash between trips, during which time he was busy chatting to the driver of the 630, and then chatting to some guy who pulled up in a car full of small children that parked in the 601 bus bay infront of him. In that time another 601 bus came in, stopped briefly then departed.

If we could transfer a car full of small children into the bus that might have helped the patronage stats - was that his motivation for the discussion?

On the bus I rode, after unloading/loading pax at Monash, the driver quickly crossed off something on his run sheet then continued driving, making a very short turnaround. I noticed at Huntingdale there was a 630A shuttle awaiting departure, is there really a point in still continuing to run this service unless the majority of 630A patronage is from intermediate stops?

As has been discussed elsewhere - 630A is an express service (in theory anyway - I've known it to stop here and there).

Why was it not 630E and 630A?

Don't get me started on route numbering! It was hell to agree on 601. I unfortunately lost on this one - I wanted to call it the 666 - and let Metlink market it as being devilishly good. (so much marketing potential). I was outvoted comprehensively on that one. We looked at 888 (a nice easy number to remember and lucky in china - so good for the international students) - but it was felt that the number hadn't been retired for long enough. Someone wanted 101 (eg. like a university class) - even though we try to keep the 100s for trams. After much discussion and hitting eachother with nerf bats, we decided on 601 for consistency with 401.

As for the numbering of the service, one would presume that it was numbered in a similar fashion to the 401, which is also an express, pre-paid service linking a university to a railway station.

Logical isn't it?

Because the normal service (630) runs every 20 minutes and the 630A every 15 minutes, there are times when they both leave at the same time. So it is really not an "in-between" service. I suspect it will be eliminated if the trial 601 becomes permanent.

630A will be remaining untouched for the moment while we assess the impact of the change on patronage, whether people switch from clayton to huntingdale to get to Monash, etc.. Also people need to get used to prepaid (telling them to wait for the 900 or 630/630A should ensure most people do the right thing). We can then look at whether the 630A has a long term future. However, we need to make sure that we have spare capacity to cope with growth over the next few years. No point scrapping the 630A and then trying to get more buses later.

I would just like to suggest to everyone that it is premature to decide what will happen with the 630A at this time - the best solution is to see what happens before further changes are made. I know that will drive someone people nuts who want certainty - but in this case it really is the smart thing to wait and see what happens to demand first - this isn't about avoiding a decision - it is about making sure we make the best decision. Minister was very clear at the launch that we are trialling this so we can tweak things to get the best solution. We are well aware of the various options available - but we haven't even had one day back at uni yet!

[Brendan03]

I would just like to suggest to everyone that it is premature to decide what will happen with the 630A at this time - the best solution is to see what happens before further changes are made. I know that will drive someone people nuts who want certainty - but in this case it really is the smart thing to wait and see what happens to demand first - this isn't about avoiding a decision - it is about making sure we make the best decision. Minister was very clear at the launch that we are trialling this so we can tweak things to get the best solution. We are well aware of the various options available - but we haven't even had one day back at uni yet!

That's not gonna stop the gunzels who think just because they spend all their hours riding around on buses, that they know all about about transport planning, Research and Development and the like.

All in all, A good post by you, Rev'

Good to see you getting involved in the community again.

Thanks.

[Craig]

I noticed around 12:30pm that it seems to be up to the drivers as to how long they choose to layover for.

Not exactly, no. I understand that the company has been trying a number of operational approaches over the last two days - which justifies my recommendation to give them a week to get it right before uni goes back. I don't think they have gotten it right yet - but they are learning all the time.

I was there again about an hour later, and it seemed the drivers were waiting at Monash for the following bus to come in before departing, in an effort to prevent yesterday's bunching. This meant that the buses would wait for several minutes at a time, often with 630A or 900 buses departing in the meanwhile.

As a result, the frequency between 601 buses was somewhat less than the advertised 4 minutes, with gaps of 7 or 8 minutes occurring, but given good or bad luck with the lights, there was also some closer bunching.

I noticed at least one of the drivers recording his times for each trip he completed on his running sheet, so no doubt this will be used to evaluate approaches for the operation.

Re: 630A express running - this has only been the case since the middle of last year when they tightened the round trip running & frequency times, from the former 20 minutes to 15 minutes, in an earlier attempt to address the overcrowding. Previously the bus stopped at all stops. Little, if any, publicity was made at the time of this change.

Kind Regards


Craig

[revenue]

I was there again about an hour later, and it seemed the drivers were waiting at Monash for the following bus to come in before departing, in an effort to prevent yesterday's bunching. This meant that the buses would wait for several minutes at a time, often with 630A or 900 buses departing in the meanwhile.

Yes, I heard that as well - and while that might be an improvement in terms of spacing, that's probably not going to be a good long term solution because as you said, it results in other buses departing first (inconsistent customer message) and it leads to the frequency decreasing. The bus company is trying some things - and I have every confidence they will get it right. They're not there yet. Three more days until university starts. Having buses sit for several minutes at one end of the route just isn't a solution. I'm not saying what the correct solution is - that's for the bus company to come up with.

Re: 630A express running - this has only been the case since the middle of last year when they tightened the round trip running & frequency times, from the former 20 minutes to 15 minutes, in an earlier attempt to address the overcrowding. Previously the bus stopped at all stops. Little, if any, publicity was made at the time of this change.

That's right - so effectively we are trying to get from a round trip of 15 minutes to 12 minutes, with prepaid fares, express running (which we already had), a lot more buses (so hopefully fewer people per bus and shorter boarding times), front door and rear door loading, etc... Can all that result in a 20% reduction in the round trip time? I think it can.

[BroadGauge]

I don't know if this has been an issue with this service, but have the DOT considered getting a legal exception to allow for drivers on these kind of runs to smoke whilst driving the bus, so they don't delay the service by taking a break?

Most people know what to do to avoid having to go to the toilet so often, but smokers simply can't help needing one all the time to stop feeling like they want to die.

And on another note, has it been considered moving the 900 Rowville stop to the same location at Huntingdale, or is it a strategic move so that Monash Uni pax will mainly get on 'their' buses (630/601 terminating at Monash) instead of services carrying pax traveling further beyond?

[Brendan03]

I don't know if this has been an issue with this service, but have the DOT considered getting a legal exception to allow for drivers on these kind of runs to smoke whilst driving the bus, so they don't delay the service by taking a break?

Most people know what to do to avoid having to go to the toilet so often, but smokers simply can't help needing one all the time to stop feeling like they want to die.

...really?

[Volvo_B9R]

Yes, I heard that as well - and while that might be an improvement in terms of spacing, that's probably not going to be a good long term solution because as you said, it results in other buses departing first (inconsistent customer message) and it leads to the frequency decreasing. The bus company is trying some things - and I have every confidence they will get it right. They're not there yet. Three more days until university starts. Having buses sit for several minutes at one end of the route just isn't a solution. I'm not saying what the correct solution is - that's for the bus company to come up with.

Do you guys actually assist Eastrans (oops or should i say "the bus company") in running it. Or do you just give them an impossible task of running a 4 minute service. Without even talking about loading/unloading/short break. Its a totally impossible task to get right. Unless the buses have buttons to set off the lights in their favour its never EVER going to work. If a bus takes off from the stop and just misses the light out of monash, theres a 1.5/2 minute wait. THen just misses the light at Dandenong road another 2 minutes or more, and then you seem to always miss the sequece at Clayton road more time waiting...... So this run and its impossible 4 minute task is never going to work. Ill say it might work 35% of the time.

Maybe time for you to get onto Vicroads and sort out these issues, otherwise the run will never work and i will never blame "the bus company" ifs its a total failure.

I don't know if this has been an issue with this service, but have the DOT considered getting a legal exception to allow for drivers on these kind of runs to smoke whilst driving the bus, so they don't delay the service by taking a break?

Are you for real? Seriously??

[revenue]

I don't know if this has been an issue with this service, but have the DOT considered getting a legal exception to allow for drivers on these kind of runs to smoke whilst driving the bus, so they don't delay the service by taking a break?

DOT has not considered this. It would require a change in legislation - so definitely no. Besides the buses are new and smell nice.

And on another note, has it been considered moving the 900 Rowville stop to the same location at Huntingdale, or is it a strategic move so that Monash Uni pax will mainly get on 'their' buses (630/601 terminating at Monash) instead of services carrying pax traveling further beyond?

Part of the logic, yes. We want to make sure that we don't leave behind 900 passengers travelling further - which has happened a few times.

Do you guys actually assist Eastrans (oops or should i say "the bus company") in running it. Or do you just give them an impossible task of running a 4 minute service. Without even talking about loading/unloading/short break. Its a totally impossible task to get right. Unless the buses have buttons to set off the lights in their favour its never EVER going to work. If a bus takes off from the stop and just misses the light out of monash, theres a 1.5/2 minute wait. THen just misses the light at Dandenong road another 2 minutes or more, and then you seem to always miss the sequece at Clayton road more time waiting...... So this run and its impossible 4 minute task is never going to work. Ill say it might work 35% of the time.

Of course there will be variation in travel times on individual trips - the key is maintain an average round trip time of twelve minutes and bus separation so that frequency is maintained. Let's say it ends up taking 13 minutes for a round trip, rather than 12 - then that works out at a frequency of four minutes and twenty seconds. As I said before - I have every confidence in Eastrans - and it isn't appropriate for us to impose solutions on them. I'm confidence they will make it work. We have just finished day 2 - I'm sure more lessons were learnt today. Running circular untimetabled bus routes isn't easy - it is totally different to normal operations - and requires a new mindset - for the drivers, company and passengers. It took Sita a while to get it right with 401 and the operation of the orbitals had similar teething problems.

Maybe time for you to get onto Vicroads and sort out these issues, otherwise the run will never work and i will never blame "the bus company" ifs its a total failure.

Of course we have been talking with VicRoads. And Victoria Police about bus lane enforcement. And Monash City Council. And Monash University.

[Volvo_B9R]

Of course we have been talking with VicRoads. And Victoria Police about bus lane enforcement. And Monash City Council. And Monash University.

Well lets hope Vicroads do a few things about the light cycles. Its just stupid you take off from Dandenong Road heading for Huntingdale & nearly always get a red light at Clayton Road. That should be the first change for the run to be on target to actually work.

[DENAIR]

has any consideration been given to making the bus lane permanent 24 hrs rather than the useless restrictive hours applied now and even if it was policed for a while as at this moment it is open slather as a short cut for cars
cheers pete