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Huntingdale to Monash Uni Clayton shuttle

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Huntingdale to Monash Uni Clayton shuttle

Postby dbowen » Wed May 25, 2011 11:18 am

New shuttle bus 601 to start next semester; to run every 4 mins 7am-7pm, every 12 mins 7pm-9:30pm.

http://www.premier.vic.gov.au/index.php ... 5&Itemid=9


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Re: Huntingdale to Monash Uni Clayton shuttle

Postby jarf » Wed May 25, 2011 11:38 am

Hmm, I don't consider a journey time of four minutes to be particularly achieveable. :lol:
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Re: Huntingdale to Monash Uni Clayton shuttle

Postby system improver » Wed May 25, 2011 11:45 am

The media release makes mention of maintaining the existing 630 service. Does this include the 630A, which already operates express every 15 minutes or so from 8am to 6pm? If the answer is yes, then, apart from running out of space for the buses to pull in at Huntingdale, it seems like a big overkill. It would be better to turn those 630A buses into extra Monash to Ormond services, to enable a ten minute headway on that section during the day, thereby connecting with trains on the Frankston line. If the answer is no, then that should have been pointed out in the media release. This will be a welcome improvement for students (and others) travelling to Monash. It will be interesting to see whether it has any effect at all on the direct Monash to Caulfield Quince service, most of which appear to be packed during the day from my observations.
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Re: Huntingdale to Monash Uni Clayton shuttle

Postby dbowen » Wed May 25, 2011 1:26 pm

jarf wrote:Hmm, I don't consider a journey time of four minutes to be particularly achieveable. :lol:


Journey time of 6 mins.

Apparently the 630/630A will stay as-is initially, but loadings will be reviewed and they may be redeployed in the future.


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Re: Huntingdale to Monash Uni Clayton shuttle

Postby bussijaam » Wed May 25, 2011 2:03 pm

It's about time!

My feeling as a Monash employee is that it won't impact the Quince's intercampus service all that much; as there are substantial numbers of students who have cross-campus classes who want the direct service. Those who have PT tickets already may make use of the new express service, but those who drive and then use the intercampus shuttle (such as myself) will continue to do so.
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Re: Huntingdale to Monash Uni Clayton shuttle

Postby revenue » Wed May 25, 2011 6:11 pm

A four minute journey time should be possible when you consider that it will be operating express - no stops between Huntingdale and Monash. There are just three traffic lights from Huntingdale to Monash, and four from Monash to Huntingdale (the extra one is the lights to exit the bus interchange). When you look at bus timetables normally, it of course includes time at stops and time to sell tickets. Four minutes does not include the loading/unloading times which are expected to take two minutes at each end. So the time taken from Huntingdale to Monash should be about the same as if you drove it - faster in some circumstances as there are bus lanes for pretty much the entire route (installed for Smartbus).

630A remains as is, and would only be revised when the impact of the new services has been assessed. Those buses can then either be kept as is, folded into 601 (to make the advertised frequency even higher) or used to improve services elsewhere. That will depend on patronage. Also, the new services are a trial for one year. Probably a safe bet that in time the 630A services will either be added to the 601, added to the regular 630 or deployed elsewhere - but it is way too soon to speculate on that as it will depend on patronage levels and the required capacity.
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Re: Huntingdale to Monash Uni Clayton shuttle

Postby Connex » Wed May 25, 2011 6:36 pm

It's great to hear such a service is being implemented.

Will this service follow in the steps of the 401 and be a pre-paid service where no tickets are sold?
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Re: Huntingdale to Monash Uni Clayton shuttle

Postby RailwayBus » Wed May 25, 2011 6:37 pm

Connex wrote:It's great to hear such a service is being implemented.

Will this service follow in the steps of the 401 and be a pre-paid service where no tickets are sold?


Yes it will.
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Re: Huntingdale to Monash Uni Clayton shuttle

Postby DENAIR » Wed May 25, 2011 8:27 pm

well well all very nice maybe they might now police the bus lanes ,if they don't there is no hope of the buses getting back to huntingdale in 4 minutes .it takes 4-8 miutes to get from monash to dandenong road now because of cars using the bus lane which is only a peak hour bus lane and motorists ignore this all the time causing buses to miss prority bus signals ,so all in all good luck but not possible in the time frame quoted .
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Re: Huntingdale to Monash Uni Clayton shuttle

Postby Paul_Nicholson » Wed May 25, 2011 8:31 pm

Now we have 401, 601 and 901 let's contemplate where

201
301
501
701 (existing service to be renumbered)
801

might operate?

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Re: Huntingdale to Monash Uni Clayton shuttle

Postby Connex » Wed May 25, 2011 8:51 pm

Routes 201 and 501 are currently in use, but that aside one would presume that those route numbers would be used within the operational boundaries of the prefix number.
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Re: Huntingdale to Monash Uni Clayton shuttle

Postby Paul_Nicholson » Wed May 25, 2011 8:59 pm

Yes of course; getting a bit rusty in my old age. The 501 is certainly a good route to ride. I remember when it was operated by Pincini of Mirboo North. Riding the 201 brings back glorious memories of Rouch and Kennedy and their orange coloured Comair Bedfords with perimeter seating. We thought they were boring in the good old days but now bring back glorious memories. It was fun to sit across the aisle immediately opposite a young lady wearing a micro mini skirts (the fashion of the mid to late 1960s). There would be scope for a shuttle between Footscray and Sunshine along what is not routes 216/219. Extend the Docklands tram to link up with the 82. Cut the 216/219 back to the city and rationalise the local routes west of Sunshine? But we wander off topic. Bus enthusiasts who wander off topic are a disgrace to the hobby.

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Re: Huntingdale to Monash Uni Clayton shuttle

Postby dex » Wed May 25, 2011 9:51 pm

It was fun to sit across the aisle immediately opposite a young lady wearing a micro mini skirts (the fashion of the mid to late 1960s). There would be scope for a shuttle between Footscray and Sunshine

You could tell all that just by looking up her skirt?
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Re: Huntingdale to Monash Uni Clayton shuttle

Postby 712M » Wed May 25, 2011 10:17 pm

Paul_Nicholson wrote:Now we have 401, 601 and 901 let's contemplate where

201
301
501
701 (existing service to be renumbered)
801

might operate?

Paul in Melbourne


There are additional 901 trips between Dandenong Station and Chisholm TAFE Dandenong during peak times if that counts?
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Re: Huntingdale to Monash Uni Clayton shuttle

Postby Peter1805 » Wed May 25, 2011 11:39 pm

dex wrote:
It was fun to sit across the aisle immediately opposite a young lady wearing a micro mini skirts (the fashion of the mid to late 1960s). There would be scope for a shuttle between Footscray and Sunshine

You could tell all that just by looking up her skirt?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Huntingdale to Monash Uni Clayton shuttle

Postby Paul_Nicholson » Thu May 26, 2011 9:00 am

Yes that happened from time to time! :D

But it was unacceptable behaviour for a bus enthusiast because it was off topic.

In the 1960s, as a teenager, I was officially classified as an undesirable person within the bus enthusiast movement (possibly for sometimes sitting opposite mini skirted women in perimeter seated buses). The powers that be (or were) genuinely thought their XXX didn't stick and looked down on those that they considered to be "louts". The most judgmental one is deceased bless his soul.

It part of the history of the enthusiast movement for people to assume positions of authority and wisdom and pass judgment on others but again we wander off topic (for this thread).

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Re: Huntingdale to Monash Uni Clayton shuttle

Postby Boff » Thu May 26, 2011 1:54 pm

Hi all,

I too think 4 minutes is a bit optimistic.

Why?

Well unless im out of touch 2 major obstacles stand in the way of a sub 6 minute time, The first being Clayton road intersection especially between 8.30 am and 9.15am and 3.00pm to 3.45pm due to the school traffic and kids/crossing guards.

The second obstacle is the Dandy road/North road intersection.

I haven't driven for Sinclairs 630 in 20 plus years but with kids and the associated traffic around school pickup and drop off times youd have to add another few minutes even if Buses had priority sequences at Dandy road and there was no School zone speed limits.

That aside i think its about time and well overdue.

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Re: Huntingdale to Monash Uni Clayton shuttle

Postby 1whoknows » Thu May 26, 2011 4:16 pm

Guys I think the 4 minute reference was to frequency not run time - thus several (3-4) buses would be required.
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Re: Huntingdale to Monash Uni Clayton shuttle

Postby revenue » Thu May 26, 2011 4:24 pm

Four minutes was a reference to both frequency and the expected travel time of an express bus.

Three buses have been allocated to this (over and above the current buses on other routes, including 630A).

Four minutes is a relatively short amount of time, but that refers to travel time - and does not include loading or unloading time.

Because there are no stops on the way, the bus should take the same time as a car to complete the journey.

Over the years, I've viewed quite a few bus networks and it was the Metro Rapid buses in LA that really showed me how fast buses can go once the stops are far enough apart from them to move out of the side lanes and into the fast lanes. A lot of the delays to buses are caused by buses travelling in the left lane and getting blocked by people turning left.

In this instance, the bus will be free to use any lane it wants and that really does cut travel time significantly. Essentially, it should take the same time as a car (and might be faster if the bus lanes are used). It certainly shouldn't be slower.

With front and rear door boarding, it has been assumed that a bus can complete a round trip in 12 minutes (assuming four minute travel times, and two minutes to load/unload).

It will be interesting to see how close we get to that once the service launches, but I'm pretty confident that a four minute travel time should be possible.

Remember, when you look at timetables, they generally include an allowance for boarding times and ticket sales. eg. if a bus arrives at Huntingdale at 8.30am in the AM peak and arrives at Monash at 8.38am, then that will include the three minutes it took the bus to load at Huntingdale, plus time at the stops on the way, plus delays from travelling in the kerb side lane.
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Re: Huntingdale to Monash Uni Clayton shuttle

Postby bussijaam » Thu May 26, 2011 5:38 pm

I timed it this morning in my car. It took me a shade under 5 mins from Huntingdale to the bus loop turn off. Time was about 9am. Traffic conditions were normal for that time.

If bus lanes are extended from just peak hours to say 6am-10pm then there is a chance. If said bus lanes are policed, a better chance. Both Clayton Road and Princes Hwy have bus lanes and signals.

So, going TO the university it is possible (just) to achieve a 4 minute journey. Going AWAY from the University is another matter. The bus lanes are regularly used by cars, espcially turn left in to Clayton Road, and the Clayton Road signals rarely match the Princes Hwy ones. They seemed to be timed so that you arrive at Clayton road just as they turn red. Almost without fail.

Clearly, that will need to change to achieve a 4 minute journey heading to Huntingdale.

Overall, I find a 4 minute journey to be a little far-fetched, and a 4 minute frequency a bit odd. Make it 5 mins. And don't bother with promising a journey time, it'll take as long as it takes.
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Re: Huntingdale to Monash Uni Clayton shuttle

Postby awatea36 » Thu May 26, 2011 5:50 pm

Any idea who will be running this service :?:
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Re: Huntingdale to Monash Uni Clayton shuttle

Postby Leyland B21 » Thu May 26, 2011 6:09 pm

Personal assumption would be CDC - Eastrans as its in their contract area, that of course is not to mention someone else could have tendered for it
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Re: Huntingdale to Monash Uni Clayton shuttle

Postby Craig » Thu May 26, 2011 9:43 pm

DENAIR wrote:well well all very nice maybe they might now police the bus lanes ,if they don't there is no hope of the buses getting back to huntingdale in 4 minutes .it takes 4-8 miutes to get from monash to dandenong road now because of cars using the bus lane which is only a peak hour bus lane and motorists ignore this all the time causing buses to miss prority bus signals ,so all in all good luck but not possible in the time frame quoted .


Defiently agree that the westbound bus lane approaching Princes Hwy should be made full time, and not just peak times. From July, there will be 34 westbound bus movements an hour interpeak that would make good use of the lane. (a massive 26 an hour to Huntingdale & a further 8 to Clayton), not to mention any charter buses/coaches as well.

On the topic of running times, 630A has about 15 minutes for the round trip at present (also runs express) with 6 - 7 minutes each way. 12 minutes will be tight, but might just be do-able.

Also, a little reminder for anyone interested to get shots of Quince's O405 running the additional student & staff shuttle from Huntingdale to Monash in the morning peak to do so soon. (runs Monday to Thursday only).

Kind Regards


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Re: Huntingdale to Monash Uni Clayton shuttle

Postby BroadGauge » Thu May 26, 2011 11:37 pm

I wonder if the buses might be more evenly loaded in the westbound direction, as there's only a 15 minute inter-peak train frequency at Huntingdale (and iirc but not sure, trains in both directions cross near there?) hence after trains drop off pax for buses, the first bus or two would leave full and the last one empty?
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Re: Huntingdale to Monash Uni Clayton shuttle

Postby revenue » Fri May 27, 2011 10:30 am

I wonder if the buses might be more evenly loaded in the westbound direction, as there's only a 15 minute inter-peak train frequency at Huntingdale (and iirc but not sure, trains in both directions cross near there?) hence after trains drop off pax for buses, the first bus or two would leave full and the last one empty?


The four minute frequency, combined with other buses, means that when a train load of passengers arrives, they can be spread over at least two buses (and probably more from other routes as well). This avoids the current problem where it takes a while for the queue to clear at Huntingdale. Essentially, if the first bus is full, they can wait four minutes for the next one (or probably less if a 630,630A or 900 comes along in the mean time). This is a pretty large increase in capacity/frequency so waiting times should be much shorter than they are now.

The loadings will be uneven at times, but I think that you will find that there will not be too many buses leaving empty from Huntingdale.

The other factor is that the Dandenong Line train frequency will be upgraded at some point. I know Metro have been quite open in their discussions with the PTUA and other groups that the objective is to move to a ten minute frequency in the medium term.

When a ten minute frequency is introduced, then you have the same number of passengers spread over more trains, which actually makes it better for the buses (more even arrival of passengers). And of course, you have trains arriving from each direction. So that makes the operation of the bus even more effective. Of course, improved frequencies also increase patronage so we might need to add even more buses.

The one year trial of this service will provide valuable information. As discussed above, the service will launch with three buses, with the 630A services remaining in place for the moment. This means that the services can be tweaked during the trial to get the best outcome.

Operationally, now that a high frequency is place, the focus will be on capacity. Effectively, there is little difference for customer satisfaction between a four minute frequency and a three minute frequency (especially when the 900 and 630 effectively deliver even more services). So questions about numbers of buses are about matching the capacity with the demand (knowing demand can be uneven).

I'm going to be really interested to see if we generate new demand from people catching this bus service to connect with other buses at Monash. I know most other bus routes do also connect with the Dandenong Line, but there might be potential there.

So when the train frequencies are increased to every ten minutes, and the new bus service is providing services every three minutes (when you include the 900 and 630), customers will have an average wait time of about ninety seconds at Monash and about five minutes at Huntingdale. That's a pretty good service. :D
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