New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
moa999
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New bus contracts to drive improved services (as from 2020)

Post by moa999 »

Admin; This thread has been renamed as it does not only apply to STA but all Sydney regions except region 6.

Presumably under a midnight embargo
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/a-s ... p533mt.htm

Not a surprise but I'm surprised they are seemingly doing all three at once.

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Campbelltown busboy
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Re: Privatisation of remaining STA regions

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

If the government pulls this off then it would be the first time since before the state transport co ordination act got put in place in the early 1930s that all bus services in Sydney would be privately run but with government contracts
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Re: Privatisation of remaining STA regions

Post by J_Busworth »

Presumably this will occur when the current operating contracts come up for renewal in 2021. Will be interesting to see how they end up breaking up the regions and what the response of the unions is. I’m expecting a few free travel days and a stop work day, regardless of how illegal they might be.

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Linto63
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Re: Privatisation of remaining STA regions

Post by Linto63 »

J_Busworth wrote:Presumably this will occur when the current operating contracts come up for renewal in 2021.
Article states 18 months to two years, although as State Transit is an agency of TfNSW, effectively a contract with itself so the transfer date will be flexible.
J_Busworth wrote:...and what the response of the unions is.
Think that will be fairly easy to predict.

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tonyp
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Re: Privatisation of remaining STA regions

Post by tonyp »

I don't know why the unions should be upset, every driver will still have a job after the change, plus there's still another union to look after them.
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Linto63
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Re: Privatisation of remaining STA regions

Post by Linto63 »

Front line staff will transfer, but unions also represent back of house staff that could be affected with work outsourced / moved offshore.

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BroadGauge
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Re: Privatisation of remaining STA regions

Post by BroadGauge »

tonyp wrote:plus there's still another union to look after them.
I think that's part of the problem here Tony! It's good for the TWU that they will be gaining an influx of members, but diabolical for the RTBU as an organisation to lose an entire division and a large quantity of paying members.

Hence why the latter union has been fighting hard against bus privatisation ;)

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Re: Privatisation of remaining STA regions

Post by 1whoknows »

Any chance we can change the topic heading to the more accurate "Franchising of Remaining STA regions"?
Privatisation is when you sell off the actual assets and allow the new owner to set routes, timetables etc
Franchising is when the employees get a new employer, which is all that is happening here.
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Re: Privatisation of remaining STA regions

Post by Linto63 »

BroadGauge wrote:It's good for the TWU that they will be gaining an influx of members, but diabolical for the RTBU as an organisation to lose an entire division and a large quantity of paying members.
Didn't the Region 6 members elect to remain with the RTBU and not transfer to the TWU when that region was privatised?
1whoknows wrote:Any chance we can change the topic heading to the more accurate "Franchising of Remaining STA regions"? Privatisation is when you sell off the actual assets and allow the new owner to set routes, timetables etc. Franchising is when the employees get a new employer, which is all that is happening here.
Being technical it isn't even franchising as this involves the operator bearing the revenue risk. With the state retaining responsibility for revenue, timetable setting and maintaining ownership of the assets, it is only control of the cost base that passes to the private operator. This is really just straight contracting out a service provision for a fee.

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Re: Privatisation of remaining STA regions

Post by 1whoknows »

Whether you call it contracting out or franchising, the real point is that it is not privatisation. That is just cant from the anti change "progressives".
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Re: Privatisation of remaining STA regions

Post by J_Busworth »

It is an ideological push against government provision of public services. It really is only contracting, and a sufficiently self motivated Labor government in the future could just as easily decide to bring all operations back under TfNSW control and remove the contracts at their expiry.

The reason they use privatisation is because it is the private sector taking over the control for operations of a service that used to be run by the government. I'm against this move, but that doesn't make me an anti-change progressive. Quite frankly I am all for change and think we need lots of change, but only when that change is the right change and I honestly think this is the wrong change. It is the governments responsibility to run this service for the public good and there shouldn't be any profit motive involved. I don't think the private sector should be involved at all if the government could do the stuff itself and think there is way to much privatisation (of the real kind) in NSW.

Just remember, this is entirely ideological, regardless of the garbage the idiotic minister will say.
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Re: Privatisation of remaining STA regions

Post by Aurora »

With a nothing opposition, they have decided to take the risk.
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Re: Privatisation of remaining STA regions

Post by tonyp »

J_Busworth wrote:
Just remember, this is entirely ideological, regardless of the garbage the idiotic minister will say.
There are benefits including cost saving and other efficiencies and better customer service. I don't see what's so controversial about it - it brings Sydney in line with just about every other city bus system in Australia. Labor governments practice it too, so it's apolitical. People still have jobs and have access to a union. A big beat-up about nothing, presumably by people who have a vested interest in something or a rigid ideology that doesn't acknowledge the practicalities of the real world.
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tonyp
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Re: Privatisation of remaining STA regions

Post by tonyp »

Get ready for the RTBU dummy spit and fibs:
Unions warn against Sydney bus sell-off
Unions will meet today discuss industrial action against the NSW Government’s plan to privatise Sydney’s remaining state-run bus services, saying job security for drivers will be “shredded”.
Danielle Le Messurier and Clarissa Bye, The Daily Telegraph

October 24, 2019 10:14am

DAILYTELEGRAPH.COM.AU1:25

ALL bus services in NSW will be privatised under a major transport plan to be unveiled by the state government today.

The Daily Telegraph understands the State Transport Authority will no longer exist under the plan but drivers and maintenance workers will have their jobs guaranteed for the next three and a half years.

Buses have already been privatised in the Inner West where service cancellations have fallen by half and patronage has increased by 20 per cent under the private operators.

It is understood the government will also investigate turning the buses electric.

There are electric buses in London, Paris and Amsterdam and they eliminate the risks posed by diesel fumes.

The state government is expected to announce the plan this afternoon.

Unions NSW secretary Mark Morey said today private operators would struggle to provide the same service on less funding, and end up cutting bus stops along the routes.

Unions will met this afternoon to discuss a campaign against the plans, which they fear will also spread to the train network.

Mr Morey said plans to privatise services in the bus regions seven, eight and nine would simply add to traffic congestion as people opted for cars — “it will affect a lot of people”.

“You will have buses stopping at less bus stops, undermining service quality,” he said. “Problem is they are trying to cut costs but the trouble is the operator hasn’t got the same level of funding as they have, so they actually get less funding and are asked to do more.

“They cut funding to private bus operators and say they are still maintaining the bus routes but what they do is cut the bus stops.

“If you’re an older person relying on the bus service and you have to walk 100 metres, you could be walking 200, 300 metres now.

“And that’s going to affect people relying on those services, key services like north shore, eastern suburbs, highly populated dense areas.

“You start taking bus stops out of those areas it’s going to affect a lot of people.”

Bus region nine is the city’s eastern suburbs, region eight covers the lower north shore and seven includes north western suburbs such as Ryde.

Mr Morey called for Transport Minister Andrew Constance to reveal the full plans, questioning why the issue was not taking to the recent election.

“Privatisation does not serve the public interest, it only serves the profit margins of the new owners,” Mr Morey said.
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moa999
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Re: Privatisation of remaining STA regions

Post by moa999 »

I think any 'fibs' will be a bit of boy who cried wolf.
They've runnout the same campaigns for Ferry's, Region 6, Newcastle and Metro,
And the world hasn't fallen in, ticket prices are the same as every other Opal service.

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Re: Privatisation of remaining STA regions

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

The government will be franchising all bus services in NSW the light rail and ferries have been franchised for years the Transport For NSW bus contracts are franchising contracts that can be signed by a private operator they could put the operations of the Sydney trains network and both NSW Trainlink networks up for tender if they wanted to
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Re: Privatisation of remaining STA regions

Post by boronia »

I'm sure they do want to, and will.
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Re: Privatisation of remaining STA regions

Post by boronia »

Jodie McKay is already jumping up and down about "selling off government assets" again, I'm waiting for the RTBU "Don't sell our buses" campaign to resurface.
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kypros1992
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Re: Privatisation of remaining STA regions

Post by kypros1992 »

So odds on who will pick it up?

Doubt it will be transit systems. Maybe a runoff between CDC and Transdev unless a international operator (first group?) joins the mix

Somebody check if transurban wants to join the bus market :roll:

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Re: Privatisation of remaining STA regions

Post by rogf24 »

I hope Ventura takes at look at NSW. Graet operations down in Victoria, never thought I would love a bus operator (including all the operators in Sydney inc STA).

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Re: Privatisation of remaining STA regions

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

rogf24 wrote:I hope Ventura takes at look at NSW. Graet operations down in Victoria, never thought I would love a bus operator (including all the operators in Sydney inc STA).
Ventura has Melbournes sole Volvo B8RLEA Volgren Optimus artics and is currently receiving new Scania K360UA Volgren Optimus artics, they all look really awesome - definitely on my to-do list as a hobbyist to try and see them when I'm next there!

Nah but seriously, back on direct topic with that then, imagine if bus privatisation allowed the private operators to actually pick their own buses - like you know, ignore the Governments headline "no more bendy buses" thing.

With one of the most weak Labor Oppositions I've ever seen in my lifetime, honestly, this Government will probably be allowed to get away with doing whatever they want. When the Government announced the R6 privatisation, Labor made a bit of noise for a week or two, maybe three at most, and then just gave up. Same with free Opal trips.

I at times near the start forgot the Inner West buses were privatised because literally nothing changed except the logo at the top of the buses while everything else actually important (routes, fares, timetables) remained the same.

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Re: Privatisation of remaining STA regions

Post by marcnut1996 »

TfNSW press release: https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/news-a ... d-services

Seems that 13 of the Sydney regions will be tendered, excluding Region 6 obviously.
New bus contracts to drive improved services
Published24 Oct 2019
Bus customers will receive additional services and innovative on demand options under new contracts to lift the standard of transport across Sydney.

Minister for Transport Andrew Constance said the reform was designed to ensure the best outcomes for both customers and staff.

“Our bus drivers are the best in the world. They do an amazing job in getting people around this incredible city and play a vital role in helping to tackle Sydney’s congestion,” Mr Constance said.

“Bus patronage has increased by more than 50 per cent over the past six years. This rate of growth outstrips that of all other forms of public transport and we need to address this increasing demand as a matter of urgency.”

The NSW Government will invite the world’s leading public transport operators, Australian and international, to bid for contracts for 13 of Sydney’s bus contract regions over the next three years. This will include the three remaining State Transit operated regions.

Mr Constance said a competitive tender of all Sydney metropolitan bus contracts will enable the NSW Government to reinvest more into delivering better services to commuters.

“We know customers want more buses, more often, as well as a mix of bus services that cater to their needs. This includes high-frequency services on major routes, like the B-Line, and frequent direct options such as on-demand services for short, local trips.”

“The NSW Government will engage with the private sector to transform the current, one-size-fits-all model of service delivery, to one with multiple service types including high-capacity routes and local and on-demand travel.”

Contracts for the three remaining State Transit Regions 7, 8, and 9 – covering Ryde, Gladesville, the Northern Beaches, Lower North Shore, the CBD, and the Eastern Suburbs will be included and be put out to tender by early 2020.

The NSW Government will continue to:
  • own State Transit buses and all other assets such as depots,
  • regulate timetables, safety, and service priorities, and
  • set fares as they are today, under the Opal system.
The reform will also see Sydney’s ageing diesel bus fleet replaced by electric vehicles to reduce the impact of buses on the health and environment of our city.

“Making the switch to an entirely electric bus fleet will deliver huge benefits to the community in terms of reducing air and noise pollution, as well as our incredible drivers,” Mr Constance said.

“As part of this process, we will challenge the industry to begin an ambitious transformation of our bus fleet from particulate emitting diesel to zero-emission buses.

“The experience of other leading European cities demonstrates that a rapid transition to zero-emission buses is possible and I have asked Transport for NSW to work with operators and bus suppliers to develop a plan to transition our fleet as part of the tender process.

“Zero-emission buses are becoming the standard with the significant environmental, health and operational cost benefits being experienced now in cities like London, Paris and Amsterdam. As a truly global city Sydney deserves the same.”

Mr Constance said there would be jobs for the majority of State Transit award staff with the new operator(s), including all bus drivers and maintenance staff, whose jobs will be guaranteed for two years. These staff will also transfer with all their accrued entitlements such as annual leave, sick leave, long service leave, superannuation and their three-year travel pass.

“Today’s announcement is not a reflection on the performance of State Transit bus drivers who have been doing an excellent job dealing with the strong surge in passenger numbers and demanding road conditions,” Mr Constance said.

“We expect more jobs for bus drivers to be created due to the extra services that will be provided.

“We have started engaging with all staff and their union representatives about today’s announcement, and will continue this right through the tender and transition process.”
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moa999
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Re: Privatisation of remaining STA regions

Post by moa999 »

Electric bus transition.
I assume this means an immediate stop on new diesel orders?

Can't see it taking us under 20yrs though.

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Ray
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Re: Privatisation of remaining STA regions

Post by Ray »

Will be interesting to see how the cross-regional routes like 343, 340 and even 257 and 263 get split up.

The new operator would want to see Epping Road services run out of Y depot, but transferring this work (or what's left of it) would give M extra capacity which would have to go somewhere - probably to cross-regional work. Maybe move N depot into Region 7 to facilitate sharing of 144s, 257s etc.

Also brings into play the idea of CDG bidding for Region 7 and integrating M depot into the Forest network. Or Transit Sisters or whatever they're called taking up Region 7 and re-integrating the old STA North-West/ South West network.

Or if the same operator wins every STA region, we're back to a fully integrated network.

Interesting times indeed.
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Campbelltown busboy
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Re: Privatisation of remaining STA regions

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

Here are some operators that could get ether of these 3 regions
Busways
Busabout Group (if they are brave enough to run two whole Sydney regions and the Wagga regional contract as they are only a small family run company)
Buslines group
CDC
Dysons
Keolis Downer
Premier Group
Transdev
Transit Systems
Ventura Group
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