Sydney Bus changes 28th July 2019

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
User avatar
boronia
Posts: 19418
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2004 7:18 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Fire engine; PD4107
Location: Sydney

Re: 30/6 and 1/7/2019 Transport alterations

Post by boronia »

Better to improve the frequency with standard buses.
The Sydney Classic and Antique Truck (and Bus) Show
On again June 2021
@ The Museum of Fire.

User avatar
Daniel
Administrator
Posts: 7036
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:03 am
Favourite Vehicle: Mercedes-Benz O405 / CC '510'
Location: Sutherland Shire

Re: 30/6 and 1/7/2019 Transport alterations

Post by Daniel »

swtt wrote:
Stu wrote:High capacity buses are needed on routes 400 & 420, TfNSW had to revise the original 420 timetable in December 2018 due to capacity issues. There will most likely be a timetable update again at the end of this month in conjunction with the 14.5 units have been retired, some short working services to meet expected capacity.
Very surprised that there have been no artics ordered to replace the 14.5s.
I’m not surprised - artics have much higher acquisition, maintenance and running costs compared to a rigid.

User avatar
swtt
Posts: 5355
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:49 am

Re: 30/6 and 1/7/2019 Transport alterations

Post by swtt »

Stu wrote:High capacity buses are needed on routes 400 & 420, TfNSW had to revise the original 420 timetable in December 2018 due to capacity issues. There will most likely be a timetable update again at the end of this month in conjunction with the 14.5 units have been retired, some short working services to meet expected capacity.
Where will these shortworking be between? Burwood & Campsie or Burwood & Rockdale?

User avatar
tonyp
Posts: 9428
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:31 pm
Location: Shoalhaven

Re: 30/6 and 1/7/2019 Transport alterations

Post by tonyp »

Daniel wrote: I’m not surprised - artics have much higher acquisition, maintenance and running costs compared to a rigid.
... and higher productivity, plus often a smaller requirement for rigid buses and drivers as numbers add up.
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"

Linto63
Posts: 1108
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:44 am

Re: 30/6 and 1/7/2019 Transport alterations

Post by Linto63 »

Some artics will be freed up when the light rail opens, this will provide extra capacity, although IIRC they can't work the 400 or 420 because of clearance issues at Westfield Eastgardens. Gladys stated in 2017 that the government planned to "phase out bendy-buses that cause increased congestion on our streets", so not surprising no more have been ordered.

User avatar
tonyp
Posts: 9428
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:31 pm
Location: Shoalhaven

Re: 30/6 and 1/7/2019 Transport alterations

Post by tonyp »

Linto63 wrote:Some artics will be freed up when the light rail opens, this will provide extra capacity, although IIRC they can't work the 400 or 420 because of clearance issues at Westfield Eastgardens. Gladys stated in 2017 that the government planned to "phase out bendy-buses that cause increased congestion on our streets", so not surprising no more have been ordered.
I read it as no more than the usual internal up and down "warring camps" factor within the transport agency and what was said in 2017 may not be what is thought in the future. A good test will be to see how they plan to run the 333 when the artics reach the end of their service life because there won't be anything else that does the job as well other than trams. Perhaps they think that they will be able to build light rail to Bondi Beach by then.
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"

Linto63
Posts: 1108
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:44 am

Re: 30/6 and 1/7/2019 Transport alterations

Post by Linto63 »

It is what the incumbent premier and transport minister stated, and to date there has been in evidence of a change in policy. That said, apart from those on the B-Line, only a handful of deckers have been purchased in the years since that statement. The current artics will be around for another 15 years, as to what will replace them, nobody knows.

User avatar
swtt
Posts: 5355
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:49 am

Re: 30/6 and 1/7/2019 Transport alterations

Post by swtt »

Linto63 wrote:It is what the incumbent premier and transport minister stated, and to date there has been in evidence of a change in policy. That said, apart from those on the B-Line, only a handful of deckers have been purchased in the years since that statement. The current artics will be around for another 15 years, as to what will replace them, nobody knows.
I guess we'll see what happens when the Parramatta Road Homebush - City and Dee Why - Chatswood "B-line-like" service launches!

User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
Posts: 21517
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:49 am
Location: The Shire

Re: 30/6 and 1/7/2019 Transport alterations

Post by Fleet Lists »

Are they still alive? Any link to the Homebush one went dead months ago and for something that was supposed to happen by the end of 2019, I dont give it much hope. And I have nothing on the other one.
Living in the Shire.

gld59
Posts: 1432
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:30 am
Location: Canberra

Re: 30/6 and 1/7/2019 Transport alterations

Post by gld59 »

swtt wrote:Is there really no willpower to replace the 14.5s with say, artics?

(The other question is, are artics needed on route 420/400?)
Yes, they're needed. No, they *can't* operate that corridor, unless the route is altered at Eastgardens.
Linto63 wrote:The current artics will be around for another 15 years
(Roughly. Those operated by STA and Transit Systems were built from 06 to 11. )

User avatar
tonyp
Posts: 9428
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:31 pm
Location: Shoalhaven

Re: 30/6 and 1/7/2019 Transport alterations

Post by tonyp »

Aren't buses supposed to be disposed of after about 12 years?!
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"

User avatar
rogf24
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 6:20 am

Re: 30/6 and 1/7/2019 Transport alterations

Post by rogf24 »

Not in NSW, keep em going for 25 years.

iamthouth
Posts: 366
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:38 am

Re: 30/6 and 1/7/2019 Transport alterations

Post by iamthouth »

It is only average fleet age that needs to be 12 years, max is 25 years and 364 days.

User avatar
BroadGauge
Posts: 3656
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:20 am
Favourite Vehicle: Car
Location: NSW

Re: 30/6 and 1/7/2019 Transport alterations

Post by BroadGauge »

tonyp wrote:Aren't buses supposed to be disposed of after about 12 years?!
Don't go to either Tasmania or the ACT then - those jurisdictions are still running buses dating from 1990/1991 on (week)daily route service!

User avatar
swtt
Posts: 5355
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:49 am

Re: 30/6 and 1/7/2019 Transport alterations

Post by swtt »

BroadGauge wrote:
tonyp wrote:Aren't buses supposed to be disposed of after about 12 years?!
Don't go to either Tasmania or the ACT then - those jurisdictions are still running buses dating from 1990/1991 on (week)daily route service!
Gosh, the ACT light rail must really be revolutionary then!

User avatar
1whoknows
Posts: 3615
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 1:55 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: 30/6 and 1/7/2019 Transport alterations

Post by 1whoknows »

Maximum and average age requirements vary from state to state. Lots of 70s and 80s buses still getting around on charters in Perth.

The main concern for urban buses is DDA compliance which Tasmania will meet by the end of 2020 when the current order for 100 Bustech XDIs is complete. Canberra is supposed to start getting new buses again later in the year with 70 something required to eliminate the rest of the high floor Renaults by 2020. DDA is of course another reason why the current 14.5s in Sydney have to go.
"Inside Every Progressive Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out"
David Horowitz.

User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
Posts: 21517
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:49 am
Location: The Shire

Re: New bus network arising from SMNW opening

Post by Fleet Lists »

The new timetables which were promised for Saturday 13th July are already up on Transport Info. Eg for 607X https://transportnsw.info/routes/detail ... 7x/23607-X
Living in the Shire.

User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
Posts: 21517
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:49 am
Location: The Shire

Re: New bus network arising from SMNW opening

Post by Fleet Lists »

And while on new timetables for 28th July, the region 6 timetables for the school term which were put up this morning only last for a week so it appears as though they will also have further new timetables for 28/7.
And while on the school term timetables, the ones for region 6 have a problem in that Sunday timetables are missing with what appear to be Sunday trips showing as Monday trips. Some Transdev new school term timetables only show Tuesday to Friday trips.
Living in the Shire.

User avatar
swtt
Posts: 5355
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:49 am

Re: New bus network arising from SMNW opening

Post by swtt »

Fleet Lists wrote:And while on new timetables for 28th July, the region 6 timetables for the school term which were put up this morning only last for a week so it appears as though they will also have further new timetables for 28/7.
And while on the school term timetables, the ones for region 6 have a problem in that Sunday timetables are missing with what appear to be Sunday trips showing as Monday trips. Some Transdev new school term timetables only show Tuesday to Friday trips.
Maybe what Stu mentioned about 420 getting extra short runners would also start on 28/7?

Sent from my Huawei P30 Pro using Tapatalk

User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
Posts: 21517
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:49 am
Location: The Shire

Re: New bus network arising from SMNW opening

Post by Fleet Lists »

STA East and North West timetables also cease on 27/7 so expect new timetables there as well on 28/7
Living in the Shire.

User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
Posts: 21517
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:49 am
Location: The Shire

Re: New bus network arising from SMNW opening

Post by Fleet Lists »

Fleet Lists wrote:The new timetables which were promised for Saturday 13th July are already up on Transport Info. Eg for 607X https://transportnsw.info/routes/detail ... 7x/23607-X
They seem to have disappeared now.
Living in the Shire.

User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
Posts: 21517
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:49 am
Location: The Shire

Sydney Bus changes on 28th July

Post by Fleet Lists »

Have just been advised that they were removed because of the other problems they ran into today. It is hoped to have the Transdev timetables fixed by tomorrow and the Transit Systems timetables by Friday when they also hope to have the new Hillsbus timetables available again.
Living in the Shire.

Frosty
Posts: 1828
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:16 am

Re: 30/6 and 1/7/2019 Transport alterations

Post by Frosty »

More evidence TSA Burwood is soon to operate the 420 saw B depot bus on a route training run along Botany Rd heading towards the Airport with a bunch of drivers onboard.

burrumbus
Posts: 2050
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:12 pm

Re: 30/6 and 1/7/2019 Transport alterations

Post by burrumbus »

1whoknows wrote:Maximum and average age requirements vary from state to state. Lots of 70s and 80s buses still getting around on charters in Perth.

The main concern for urban buses is DDA compliance which Tasmania will meet by the end of 2020 when the current order for 100 Bustech XDIs is complete. Canberra is supposed to start getting new buses again later in the year with 70 something required to eliminate the rest of the high floor Renaults by 2020. DDA is of course another reason why the current 14.5s in Sydney have to go.
Correct 1whoknows.
The major concern with the withdrawal of the 14.5 metre Scanias is the loss of lots of seating and standing capacity.
Even though artics are more expensive to operate and purchase than rigids the uplift in seating and standing capacity more than compensates for the extra rigid buses and drivers needed to move pax on those super busy routes that need capacity.
That is one of the major problems in Sydney with the one bus size fits all routes mentality.
The capacity on busy routes is not there to move the crowds.Under investment in high capacity buses really cruels the abilty to shift pax on the busy routes/corridors.
Paradoxically use of rigid buses on low patronage routes also has the same effect.
Until appropriate investment and sensible rostering practices are in place at STA mainly the capacity to shift the crowds(which are growing)on busy routes/corridors will not be there.
Silly really-but it has been going on for decades since the trams were replaced.

burrumbus
Posts: 2050
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:12 pm

Re: 30/6 and 1/7/2019 Transport alterations

Post by burrumbus »

Frosty wrote:More evidence TSA Burwood is soon to operate the 420 saw B depot bus on a route training run along Botany Rd heading towards the Airport with a bunch of drivers onboard.
That will be very interesting to see TSA operate that service.

Post Reply

Return to “Discussion - Sydney / NSW”