New bus network arising from SMNW opening

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Geo101
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Re: New bus network arising from SMNW opening

Post by Geo101 »

tonyp wrote:. Time for some new talent perhaps?
What I think it is time to do is to attach some sort of smart number plate to all vehicles. Find out where they are all coming from and going to, and when.

Companies like Google and Uber already do this by using phone user data. Not sure I’d be happy with the Government going down the same path, but I’d certainly like to see them implement some sort of vehicle tracking with the objective of improving road and public transport planning.

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tonyp
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Re: New bus network arising from SMNW opening

Post by tonyp »

I think a desire to get to the nearest railway station is as strong as it has ever been. It doesn't take much to figure that out.

It's funny to think back to the time when the metro opponents were arguing that there was a conspiracy to make the metro look good and Sydney Trains look bad. Well now that it's up and running, a scroll through the journey planner suggests that it's metro advocates who should be paranoid - it looks like TfNSW is jumping through hoops to prevent people boarding the metro! Searching the journey planner for morning peak trips from north Cherrybrook to the city, every successive local feeder bus goes in a different direction (I found this in reverse searching trips from the metro in norwest to Norwest hospital too). There is no constant predictable bus service that just goes to the nearest railway station - Cherrybrook. The north Cherrybrook buses mostly feed down to the capacity-constrained express buses on the M2, some go in the wrong direction to Castle Hill station, some go to Pennant Hills station, trashing the prospect of a fast trip to the city. I've never seen anything like it. Why can't they just do a frequent, predictable bus down to Cherrybrook station?

Looking through the public feedback on the metro over time, it seems to me that the strongest theme coming through is: I love it but I can't get to it. The carparks are full by 7 and the (ahem) "feeder" buses go everywhere except the nearest station.
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burrumbus
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Re: New bus network arising from SMNW opening

Post by burrumbus »

Cherrybrook is the worst case in the NW bus network where literally nothing is available from the nearby residential areas to the Cherrybrook Station.
Most of the other stations suffer from simllar situations but there is generally a 30 minute peak/60 minute convoluted route covering some of the nearby areas into the stations.
Most of us on this forum know that sort of frequency and route coverage does not cut the mustard and will not attract good patronage.
Makes you wonder what sort of thinking(or the lack of)was going on in TFNSW and to an extent Hillsbus??

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tonyp
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Re: New bus network arising from SMNW opening

Post by tonyp »

Perth - a city with 40% of Sydney's population - typically no worse than 15 minute headway feeder services to stations, often closer than that, in peak; no worse than 30 minutes off peak. This mess stymies the effectiveness of the metro. Is any part of the suburban network fed as badly as this I wonder?
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moa999
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Re: New bus network arising from SMNW opening

Post by moa999 »

I'm sure there are areas of Perth with equally bad bus services as parts of Sydney.

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Re: New bus network arising from SMNW opening

Post by Merc1107 »

moa999 wrote:I'm sure there are areas of Perth with equally bad bus services as parts of Sydney.
There are plenty of feeders at only hourly headways during the day, but particularly at night and on weekends (bearing in mind nearer the interchanges there is usually reasonable combined frequency, but that's not really the same). This isn't necessarily limited to outer suburbs, either.
More recently there have been efforts to improve this, but it's far from 30min minimum all the time, everywhere.

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tonyp
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Re: New bus network arising from SMNW opening

Post by tonyp »

But peak services are usually pretty good, which is the times of day when it's more critical to most users. The point is that the metro has over three times the patronage of say the Joondalup line, which suggests there's probably three times the population around it, which in turn suggests that the feeder bus services in Sydney should be three times better than those in Perth, not worse!

Look at that route from Windsor to Rouse Hill - weekdays only, hourly in peak and two hourly off peak! That would be an excellent service to address the parking problem at Tallawong with its catchment stretching to the mountains. A 15 minute service on that route would encourage people to park further out and use the bus to get to the metro. It's as though the planners completely failed to predict the reach of the metro and exploit the opportunities for people to access it.
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Re: New bus network arising from SMNW opening

Post by Tram Fan 24/7 »

I had the chance to ride the Metro recently to Tallawong & hoped to find a bus to take me to Schofields. While there a little blue on demand shuttle bus arrived, dropped off some pax & went on it's way.
I looked for a manufacturers name or model name but didn't see one.
Does anyone know who makes these little blue buses?

My pic is too big for this post :(

Any Ideas?

TF 24/7

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Daniel
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Re: New bus network arising from SMNW opening

Post by Daniel »

Hino Poncho.

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tonyp
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Re: New bus network arising from SMNW opening

Post by tonyp »

Tram Fan 24/7 wrote:I had the chance to ride the Metro recently to Tallawong & hoped to find a bus to take me to Schofields. While there a little blue on demand shuttle bus arrived, dropped off some pax & went on it's way.
I looked for a manufacturers name or model name but didn't see one.
Does anyone know who makes these little blue buses?

My pic is too big for this post :(

Any Ideas?

TF 24/7
That's Cooee Busways according to Transport Info but its website won't open for me. It connects The Ponds, Schofields and Kellyville Ridge to Tallawong and Rouse Hill stations. The way things are, they should extend its catchment to the lower Blue Mountains!

So how did you go getting a connection to Schofields? There are supposed to be a couple of direct bus routes (732 and 751 I think) but the Journey Planner in its usual fashion shows options all over the shop. You can have journey times ranging from 8 minutes to 40 minutes, depending on how long you like riding a bus for while transiting a 4 km gap. For bus enthusiasts, I recommend the 40 minute service.
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Re: New bus network arising from SMNW opening

Post by Tram Fan 24/7 »

Thanks to Daniel for answering my query about the Hino Poncho on demand bus I saw out at Tallawong Metro station recently.

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Re: New bus network arising from SMNW opening

Post by Tram Fan 24/7 »

Hi Tony P, I didn't catch a bus to Schofields after all. The Wife was getting a bit cross & by my calculations the next bus was 30 mins away, so we hopped back on the Metro & rode to Rouse Hill where we took the bus to Parra.

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Re: New bus network arising from SMNW opening

Post by Richard290 »

I’ve been observing a number of departures of the route 651 which often departs Epping for Rouse Hill carrying fresh air, even in peak periods.

It seems that the redirection of its route to terminate in congestion-ravaged Epping from its previous terminus at Macquarie Park, and the route’s shadowing the path of the Metro has not improved its unpopularity among passengers any better, since you can travel two stations north to Beecroft and change to the same route, minus the extra patronage from the passing Intercity and Metro services that Epping possesses.

Even though I question the retention of the 651’s route along Beecroft Road between Beecroft and Epping (paralleling the Northern Line in its midst) the only possible reason to justify that portion of the route is to serve Cheltenham Girls High School to connect students who live in WPH Valley where the route 651 deviates reasonably far away from the Metro, especially areas distant from Cherrybrook station.
In addition, with route 633 being rerouted away from Highs Road and Coonara Avenue to run direct via Castle Hill Road and Cherrybrook Station and the limitations of Route 635 running solely on weekdays, Coonara Avenue lost its weekend services (only Saturday 633 services) and lost its direct connection to Pennant Hills Station at the expense of a redirected Route 635 which now runs weekdays only on a different convoluted route through Cherrybrook Station and the Retirement Village to Castle Hill Station.
Last edited by Richard290 on Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Living at the north end of the 513 & 535. and the confluence of 513, 535, 546, 549, 550, 553, 625 & 630.

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swtt
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Re: New bus network arising from SMNW opening

Post by swtt »

Richard290 wrote:I’ve been observing a number of departures of the route 651 which oftendeparts Epping for Rouse Hill carrying fresh air, even in peak periods.

It seems that the redirection of its route to terminate in congestion-ravaged Epping from its previous terminus at Macquarie Park, and the route’s shadowing the path of the Metro has not improved its unpopularity among passengers any better, since you can travel two stations north to Beecroft and change to the same route, minus the extra patronage from the passing Intercity and Metro services that Epping possesses.
Yep. Congestion ravaged Epping is pretty accurate - perhaps to try to retain a "one seat trip".

Maybe to make it operationally more efficient, it should terminate at Cheltenham Station.

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tonyp
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Re: New bus network arising from SMNW opening

Post by tonyp »

I commented on a Sydney Metro self-promotion facebook post saying that the metro was fantastic but people had trouble getting to it because of poor feeder bus and carpark planning. Somewhat to my surprise, I got dozens of likes and a string of comments from locals along the lines of "well said" etc!

Houston, I think there's an issue out there. And it ain't the train.
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tonyp
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Re: New bus network arising from SMNW opening

Post by tonyp »

The first part pertinent to this thread:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-06/ ... s/11576000
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Evergreen
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Re: New bus network arising from SMNW opening

Post by Evergreen »

Richard290 wrote:I’ve been observing a number of departures of the route 651 which often departs Epping for Rouse Hill carrying fresh air, even in peak periods.

It seems that the redirection of its route to terminate in congestion-ravaged Epping from its previous terminus at Macquarie Park, and the route’s shadowing the path of the Metro has not improved its unpopularity among passengers any better, since you can travel two stations north to Beecroft and change to the same route, minus the extra patronage from the passing Intercity and Metro services that Epping possesses.

Even though I question the retention of the 651’s route along Beecroft Road between Beecroft and Epping (paralleling the Northern Line in its midst) the only possible reason to justify that portion of the route is to serve Cheltenham Girls High School to connect students who live in WPH Valley where the route 651 deviates reasonably far away from the Metro, especially areas distant from Cherrybrook station.
In addition, with route 633 being rerouted away from Highs Road and Coonara Avenue to run direct via Castle Hill Road and Cherrybrook Station and the limitations of Route 635 running solely on weekdays, Coonara Avenue lost its weekend services (only Saturday 633 services) and lost its direct connection to Pennant Hills Station at the expense of a redirected Route 635 which now runs weekdays only on a different convoluted route through Cherrybrook Station and the Retirement Village to Castle Hill Station.
I think the issue here is that Beecroft Station is not wheelchair, pram, bike, frail ppl accessible. If you play with trip planner and check the wheelchair box, then journeys change drastically.

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tonyp
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Re: New bus network arising from SMNW opening

Post by tonyp »

A major breakthrough? I can't find this on the TfNSW website yet, nor can I find details to study. Sent to a NW metro user.
I am pleased to advise that after reviewing customer feedback and continually monitoring patronage, Transport for NSW has commenced some improvements to the network which will be introduced on 17 November.
The key changes include:
- More services operating on Sundays between Rouse Hill, Hills Showground and Parramatta on route 601
- Route 617 will be extended to operate to and from Rouse Hill Station, providing improved access to Metro services.
- Over 230 additional weekly services on route 642X- also adjusted to operate via Cherrybrook Station.
- More services operating later on weeknights between Kellyville Station and Samantha Riley Drive on route 603.
- The frequency of route 605 services between North Kellyville and Rouse Hill Town Centre will be improved from every 30 minutes to every 15 minutes during peak times, while extra services will run earlier and later on weekdays.
- The frequency of route 633 services will be improved from every 30 minutes to every 15 minutes during peak times on weekdays between James Mileham Drive, Hills Showground and Castle Hill.
- Earlier and later services will be introduced on route 715 to and from Rouse Hill station on weekdays.
- Extra morning peak services will also be added to route 600 between Castle Hill and Parramatta on weekdays.
- Over 680 more weekly services are now running to-and-from Metro stations.
Although these changes may not specifically relate to the issue that you have raised, I felt it was important to share this information with everyone who contacted me.
There is a full list of service changes now available at www.transportnsw.info
Please note commuters will not be able to plan their journeys via the website until 3 November 2019.
In the meantime, if there is anything further I can assist you with please do not hesitate to contact me.
Regards

Office of Ray Williams MP
Member for Castle Hill
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Re: New bus network arising from SMNW opening

Post by Linto63 »

tonyp wrote:A major breakthrough? I can't find this on the TfNSW website yet, nor can I find details to study.
"Please note commuters will not be able to plan their journeys via the website until 3 November 2019."

Probably explains why you can't find any details and won't be able to for a week.

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tonyp
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Re: New bus network arising from SMNW opening

Post by tonyp »

Linto63 wrote:"Please note commuters will not be able to plan their journeys via the website until 3 November 2019."

Probably explains why you can't find any details and won't be able to for a week.
I noted that, but it contradicts "now available at transportinfo". Anyway, not long to wait.
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Re: New bus network arising from SMNW opening

Post by swtt »

tonyp wrote:A major breakthrough? I can't find this on the TfNSW website yet, nor can I find details to study. Sent to a NW metro user.
I am pleased to advise that after reviewing customer feedback and continually monitoring patronage, Transport for NSW has commenced some improvements to the network which will be introduced on 17 November.
The key changes include:
- More services operating on Sundays between Rouse Hill, Hills Showground and Parramatta on route 601
- Route 617 will be extended to operate to and from Rouse Hill Station, providing improved access to Metro services.
- Over 230 additional weekly services on route 642X- also adjusted to operate via Cherrybrook Station.
- More services operating later on weeknights between Kellyville Station and Samantha Riley Drive on route 603.
- The frequency of route 605 services between North Kellyville and Rouse Hill Town Centre will be improved from every 30 minutes to every 15 minutes during peak times, while extra services will run earlier and later on weekdays.
- The frequency of route 633 services will be improved from every 30 minutes to every 15 minutes during peak times on weekdays between James Mileham Drive, Hills Showground and Castle Hill.
- Earlier and later services will be introduced on route 715 to and from Rouse Hill station on weekdays.
- Extra morning peak services will also be added to route 600 between Castle Hill and Parramatta on weekdays.
- Over 680 more weekly services are now running to-and-from Metro stations.
Although these changes may not specifically relate to the issue that you have raised, I felt it was important to share this information with everyone who contacted me.
There is a full list of service changes now available at http://www.transportnsw.info
Please note commuters will not be able to plan their journeys via the website until 3 November 2019.
In the meantime, if there is anything further I can assist you with please do not hesitate to contact me.
Regards

Office of Ray Williams MP
Member for Castle Hill
Whilst the original changes were far from perfect, at least they're being quite responsive. Opal data must also help too.

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swtt
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Re: New bus network arising from SMNW opening

Post by swtt »

https://transportnsw.info/news/2019/bus ... r#homepage

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Bus Changes from 17 November 2019

Post by J_Busworth »

Admin B1 is covered in thread 86382.
https://transportnsw.info/news/2019/bus ... r#homepage

As already reported, there will be bus changes to the North West and Northern Beaches from November 17
From Sunday 17 November 2019, changes to bus services will be introduced in Sydney’s North West, North Shore and Northern Beaches to provide more reliable journeys and easier connections to Metro stations and improved travel options across multiple areas including Rouse Hill, Kellyville, Castle Hill and Cherrybrook.

The key changes include:

North West Sydney

Changes to routes 626, 635 and 642X in Cherrybrook, including additional services and a change in route to make it easier to connect at Cherrybrook station.
Earlier afternoon and later evening services on routes 620X and 642X departing the City on weekdays.
Extra services on route 747 from Marsden Park to Rouse Hill via Riverstone and Tallawong station, including new peak hour services to-and-from the Elara Estate, making it easier to connect to Riverstone, Tallawong and Rouse Hill stations.
Additional services on other routes including 600, 601, 606, 611, 632, 633 and 651.
Timetable adjustments for some routes including 602X, 610X, 612X, 615X and 619.

Northern Beaches

Additional morning peak services for route B1.
Route 155 will be extended to the Northern Beaches Hospital.
https://transportnsw.wordpress.com
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Re: Bus Changes from 17 November 2019

Post by Richard290 »

However, the route which will see the most noticeable cut in services will be route 619 - which is now whittled down to a peak-direction route between Macquarie Park Station and Castle Hill Stations via Baulko Junction.
Timetable adjustment
Route 619 will be changed to operate during weekday morning and afternoon peak periods only; all weekday off-peak, counter-peak, late evening and weekend services will be withdrawn
Weekday morning and afternoon peak services will operate at a reduced service frequency of 15 mins
Morning peak hour services will operate from Castle Hill towards Macquarie Park between around 5.30am and 10.30am, and afternoon peak hour services will operate from Macquarie Park towards Castle Hill between around 2.00pm and 8.30pm.
I caught a 619 from Castle Hill to Macquarie Uni Station last Tuesday. Between Castle Towers and Barclay Road there were no more than 5-7 passengers which then increased to 10 by the time it reached Oakes Road. With an additional 15 minutes in travel time compared with the Metro, the 619 has had the lion’s share of its passenger-base siphoned onto the Metro or will be forced to use other services once its off-peak, night and weekend services are withdrawn come November 17.
Living at the north end of the 513 & 535. and the confluence of 513, 535, 546, 549, 550, 553, 625 & 630.

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Re: New bus network arising from SMNW opening

Post by tonyp »

HILLS SHIRE
Bus backflip: NSW Government return bus services across The Hills
Vital bus services across northwest Sydney have been returned after three months of protest. See the routes that were revived in the government backflip and the ones left on the cutting room floor.

Jake McCallum, Urban Affairs Reporter, Hills Shire Times

October 28, 2019 5:09pm

Vital bus services across The Hills have been returned. (AAP Image / Angelo Velardo)

Desperate commuters across The Hills campaigning to see axed bus services reinstated after they were cut with the opening of the Sydney Metro northwest have won the battle, but not the war, for all services to be revived.

A series of petitions, which gained the support of close to 15,000 residents, and a strong campaign by NewsLocal were launched after the NSW Government announced it would cut bus services across The Hills from July 28 this year.

However, Transport for NSW announced a major backflip, with hundreds of buses on affected routes including 620X, 626, 632, 633, 635, 642X and 651 would return from November 17 after community feedback and Opal card travel data.

The 621 Castle Hill to Wynyard service, which was the catalyst for a petition that gained more than 4000 signatures, was not returned.

Epping state Liberal MP Dominic Perrottet said Transport for NSW listened to the community concerns.

“These changes are aimed at creating an integrated public transport network to help

people move easily around Epping with more than 600 additional weekly services now

running to-and-from Metro stations,” he said.

“I would like to thank everyone who has contacted me regarding this matter and I want

to reassure people I will continue fighting for the restoration of the 621 service.”

While Seven Hills state Liberal MP Mark Taylor thanked residents that campaigned alongside him to see the return of the 606 bus from Winston Hills to Parramatta.

Hornsby Greens councillor Emma Heyde held community rallies to call on the State Government to return bus services.

Cr Heyde said she was happy with the result, however, concerned that crucial routes would not return after the government backflip.

“It is three months of angst and inconvenience for residents that should never have happened,” Cr Heyde said. “The government had Opal data that showed these routes were still at 80 per cent capacity.

“Residents are in uproar that the 621 route that was the major concern hasn’t been returned – not to mention the fact that it has taken three months for their outrage to be heard.”

CHANGES TO THE NETWORK

Route 606 - Winston Hills to Parramatta will see 150 weekly services added and revert to stopping out the front of Winston Hills Mall.

Route 620X - Dural to City via Cherrybrook via M2

25 additional weekly services on route 620X, with earlier services during the afternoon

peak and services operating later into the evening. The last service will now depart the

City around 9pm.

Route 626 – Kellyville Station to Pennant Hills via Cherrybrook

Over 80 additional weekly services with extra morning and afternoon peak services

between Cherrybrook Village shops and Cherrybrook Metro Station. The route will also

provide quicker access to Cherrybrook Station, operating direct via County Drive

instead of via David Road.

Route 632 – Rouse Hill Station to Pennant Hills via Norwest and Castle Hill

Over 70 additional weekly services with extra off-peak and later evening services from

Rouse Hill Station to Pennant Hills via Norwest, Castle Hill and Cherrybrook.

Route 633 – Rouse Hill Station to Pennant Hills via Kellyville and Castle Hill

Over 60 additional weekly services making it easier for customers to travel to-and-

from the Hills Showground, Castle Hill, Cherrybrook and Pennant Hills stations.

Route 635 - Castle Hill to Beecroft via West Pennant Hills

100 additional weekly services with the route adjusted to operate via Cherrybrook

Village and David Road with later weeknight and new weekend services introduced.

These changes will also restore the connection between the Anglican Retirement

Village and Cherrybrook Village shops.

Route 642X - Round Corner Dural to City via M2

Over 230 additional weekly services including either side of the afternoon peak and

will now include a stop at Cherrybrook Station, as well as new off-peak and evening

services between Dural and Cherrybrook Station.

Route 651 - Rouse Hill Station to Epping via Castle Hill

Over 50 additional weekly services between Epping and Castle Hill via West Pennant

Hills on weekdays.
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