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STA Observations 2019

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:26 pm

3808 wrote:Very happy to see 3012, 3014 and 3016 (at least) apparently bound for M. Mk 4 3014 turned up on my regular homeward trip literally one day after it was delivered. Then 3012 turned up on the same trip the following day. They were the first new buses for M since I started keeping tabs on the STA / UTA fleet, so their (unannounced) appearance was bus enthusiast heaven for me at the time.


M has received like 3 Scania K310UB CB80 Series II at the end of last year (roughly), and then another 4 or so in June, but they remain pretty uncommon - looks like they prefer to stick with the older CB80's and Bustechs.

Hopefully this larger order of new B8RLE Bustechs will be an easy sight.
Scania K280UB CB80 > Volvo B7RLE CB80

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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Ray » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:00 pm

Should be given the size of the batch! I see that 3024 is a Scania - wonder where it will end up.

And yeah, wasn't a huge fan of the Mk 4s. I remember 3024 going on loan to Ryde in the 90s and staying for upwards of a year.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby idontknow556 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:05 am

It should end up at either Port botany or Randwick
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Ray » Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:09 am

Yes i agree. But by the same logic (namely that P, R and M are Scania depots) the Bustech Volvos shouldn't have gone to Willoughby.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Stu » Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:02 pm

Some years ago now STA wanted to achieve a reduction in the mixture of different manufacturers of buses at each depot wherever possible. This was achieved at a only a few depots:
- ex STA Burwood is 100% Volvo (when the last of the Mk IV Mercs were transferred out to other depots).
- North Sydney is 100% (when the last of the Mk V Mercs were transferred out)
- Mona Vale was 100% Volvo for a few years (between the last transferred Merc Mk IV and the first MAN double deck).
- Brookvale is 100% Volvo (after the 2 x ex N&W O405's were transferred back to Y)
- ex STA Kingsgrove has been 100% Scania since June 2013.

This goal has not been able to be achieved at other depots due to the operational nature of various depots having buses such as rigid Mercedes CNG (Y, P & W), Scania CNG (Y & W) or Volvo artics (numerous depots). I think that this idea must have been abandoned in recent years. Scania & Volvo appear to be the two main manufacturers chosen to supply rigid 12.5m buses to STA in recent years whilst the body work has been divided between Bustech, Volgren and Custom Coaches. Factors such as after sales service for new and older vehicles, warranty, types of body already in existence at particular depots are just a handful of factors in making decisions about purchasing new buses. It makes sense to have at least two chassis manufacturers and possibly at least two body builders involved as you don't want to place all of your eggs in one basket.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Frosty » Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:22 pm

Though it is interesting since during the 2000s & early 2010s STA would exclusively order from Custom Coaches until the order for Volgren 18m bendies then later for the Bustechs. Some notes STA does lack any buses of Euro 6 standards and hasn't ordered any Mercedes Benz chassis buses since early 2010s.

*Edit* Does anyone know how the sole 14.5m Scania K310UB low floor at P will be treated operationally/roster wise once the 14.5m high-floor buses retire only 5 remaining at P will it become a frankstein bus only operated during peak hour on Anzac Parade/Bunnerong Rd. Since in recent times the Scania L113TRBs have been seen on Botany Rd services but never the low-floor K310UB.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby stajourneyman » Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:40 pm

Isn't the P Volgren 14.5 often utilised on one of the allnighter rosters?
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby tonyp » Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:58 am

Stu wrote:This goal has not been able to be achieved at other depots due to the operational nature of various depots having buses such as rigid Mercedes CNG (Y, P & W), Scania CNG (Y & W) or Volvo artics (numerous depots). I think that this idea must have been abandoned in recent years. Scania & Volvo appear to be the two main manufacturers chosen to supply rigid 12.5m buses to STA in recent years whilst the body work has been divided between Bustech, Volgren and Custom Coaches. Factors such as after sales service for new and older vehicles, warranty, types of body already in existence at particular depots are just a handful of factors in making decisions about purchasing new buses. It makes sense to have at least two chassis manufacturers and possibly at least two body builders involved as you don't want to place all of your eggs in one basket.

I thought the most efficient and economic way to operate a fleet is to have everything standardised into one model or variants thereof (rigid/artic). The Transperth fleet seems to be based on this principle. I don't have any opinion on the merits of Volvo vs Scania vs MB chassis, but I believe that minimum standards should be set for body specification, including seat pitch and stepless doorways. In this regard there's significant difference between Volgren, Custom and Bustech (I can't comment on Gemilang as I haven't ridden one of their Sydney public transport single deckers).

STA and TfNSW really dropped the ball in ordering from Bustech (without even requiring the builder to modify the design as they have in Adelaide) and why they keep ordering them without any apparent comprehension of what the problem is baffles me - certainly not customer-focussed thinking. There is not an equal standard across the various body builders and it's simplistic to just order selections across them to (presumably) farm out the work across the industry. As in any area of industry, those who produce a better product should be able to reap the reward in sales (as Volgren does nationally admittedly, but not in Australia's most signifcant bus city).
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Daniel » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:36 am

That’s all well and good and we’ve heard it all before - but you have not factored in or don’t want to acknowledge the realities of both State politics and the bus manufacturing industry to your commentary.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby tonyp » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:56 am

Daniel wrote:That’s all well and good and we’ve heard it all before - but you have not factored in or don’t want to acknowledge the realities of both State politics and the bus manufacturing industry to your commentary.

Normally the political imperative is to support local state jobs (so Perth buying from Volgren in that context is understandable), but only one of the manufacturers is located in NSW and another set up here but was driven out by lack of orders. So I'm intrigued to know what is the state politics factor. Capacity in the manufacturing industry I can understand, but if there's a guaranteed expectation of orders then the capacity can be supplied. It seems at the moment we're doing a good job of supporting the Queensland and Victorian economies.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Campbelltown busboy » Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:36 am

tonyp wrote:STA and TfNSW really dropped the ball in ordering from Bustech (without even requiring the builder to modify the design as they have in Adelaide) and why they keep ordering them without any apparent comprehension of what the problem is baffles me - certainly not customer-focussed thinking. There is not an equal standard across the various body builders and it's simplistic to just order selections across them to (presumably) farm out the work across the industry. As in any area of industry, those who produce a better product should be able to reap the reward in sales (as Volgren does nationally admittedly, but not in Australia's most signifcant bus city).
Transport For NSW should tell all contact holding operators about the differences between low entry flat floor to the centre door witch is the setting of the chassis that all the Transport For NSW bus contract operators witch includes the STA go for and 100% low floor witch should have higher numbers in the Sydney bus network
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby tonyp » Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:45 am

Campbelltown busboy wrote:Transport For NSW should tell all contact holding operators about the differences between low entry flat floor to the centre door witch is the setting of the chassis that all the Transport For NSW bus contract operators witch includes the STA go for and 100% low floor witch should have higher numbers in the Sydney bus network

As a peace gesture I'm not entering the discussion about 100% low floor here, just mentioning the basic expectation (and safety issue) in the modern age that all door entries on public transport vehicles should be stepless and wondering how tuned-in to their jobs some agencies and operators are if they don't apparently notice that fundamental issue, especially the nation's leading operator.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Swift » Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:04 pm

Simple. The stepped centre door buses are offered at a cheaper rate. The Gemilang Scania K310UBs with region six have flat centre exit (or entry to some :twisted:) and looked no worsely laid out than Custgren.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Ray » Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:29 pm

Would be interesting to see an all Bustech STA depot....
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Swift » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:18 pm

No thanks. :|
MAN SL200 & Mercedes 0 305:essentially the same bus.
Brisbane: SL200, Sydney 0305, Canberra both, Melbourne SL200, Hobart neither, Adelaide both, Perth 0305, Parramatta Ryde SL200 :P
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Stu » Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:25 am

Information regarding additional bus services during exam periods at UNSW - an updated document will be published for the next exam period in a few months.

https://student.unsw.edu.au/exam-locations
https://student.unsw.edu.au/exam-buses
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Stu » Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:29 am

STA AMD.
- decommissioned Scania 14.5m: 3424, 3430 & 3431.
- new Volvo B8 (Bustech): 3004 & 3005.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Daniel » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:48 am

Stu wrote:STA AMD.
- decommissioned Scania 14.5m: 3424, 3430 & 3431.
- new Volvo B8 (Bustech): 3004 & 3005.

3430 has come from TSA. It has been donated to the Sydney Bus Museum and will remain stored at AMD.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Swift » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:34 am

Stu wrote:STA AMD.
- decommissioned Scania 14.5m: 3424, 3430 & 3431.
- new Volvo B8 (Bustech): 3004 & 3005.

Replacements in effect? Those Scanias were poorly made rattle wagons, but they could soak up the great unwashed without much drama. Pity Sydney didn't order any Volvo B12BLE 14.5s like I believe BT have. They would have made worthy replacements.
The 14.5s carved out a valuable niche over a long period. It's a shame to throw that away.
MAN SL200 & Mercedes 0 305:essentially the same bus.
Brisbane: SL200, Sydney 0305, Canberra both, Melbourne SL200, Hobart neither, Adelaide both, Perth 0305, Parramatta Ryde SL200 :P
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Campbelltown busboy » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:45 am

Swift wrote:Replacements in effect? Those Scanias were poorly made rattle wagons, but they could soak up the great unwashed without much drama. Pity Sydney didn't order any Volvo B12BLE 14.5s like I believe BT have. They would have made worthy replacements.
The 14.5s carved out a valuable niche over a long period. It's a shame to throw that away.
The STA L113TRBs has 61 seats where the Volgren 14,5m Volvo B12BLEs would have to be a 54 seat layout due to the seat behind the driver needing to make way for that long luggage rack that has been standard in every STA spec bus since the first batch of Custom CB60 Volvo B12BLE euro3s
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Swift » Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:28 pm

Campbelltown busboy wrote:
Swift wrote:Replacements in effect? Those Scanias were poorly made rattle wagons, but they could soak up the great unwashed without much drama. Pity Sydney didn't order any Volvo B12BLE 14.5s like I believe BT have. They would have made worthy replacements.
The 14.5s carved out a valuable niche over a long period. It's a shame to throw that away.
The STA L113TRBs has 61 seats where the Volgren 14,5m Volvo B12BLEs would have to be a 54 seat layout due to the seat behind the driver needing to make way for that long luggage rack that has been standard in every STA spec bus since the first batch of Custom CB60 Volvo B12BLE euro3s

In this age of low entry a loss of seats is customary over the old raised floor level counterparts.
They are still a pax Hoover over a 12m bus, and with standees, are far less likely to leave people behind, like 12m (or certain misused midis in the east) buses too often do.
MAN SL200 & Mercedes 0 305:essentially the same bus.
Brisbane: SL200, Sydney 0305, Canberra both, Melbourne SL200, Hobart neither, Adelaide both, Perth 0305, Parramatta Ryde SL200 :P
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Stu » Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:11 pm

Campbelltown busboy wrote:
Swift wrote:Replacements in effect? Those Scanias were poorly made rattle wagons, but they could soak up the great unwashed without much drama. Pity Sydney didn't order any Volvo B12BLE 14.5s like I believe BT have. They would have made worthy replacements.
The 14.5s carved out a valuable niche over a long period. It's a shame to throw that away.
The STA L113TRBs has 61 seats where the Volgren 14,5m Volvo B12BLEs would have to be a 54 seat layout due to the seat behind the driver needing to make way for that long luggage rack that has been standard in every STA spec bus since the first batch of Custom CB60 Volvo B12BLE euro3s


STA decided to specify for no seat behind the driver due to a small number of incidents involving people falling out of the seat (O405NH CNG models), there was at least one fatality as a result and possibly a second fatality from memory in early 2007.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby CityRail » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:49 am

Due to high amount of patronage, Free Bus 22T4 operated this weekend with Articulated Buses.
As the result, some free 333 services were operated using rigid bus only.
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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Stonesourscotty » Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:36 pm

3028 just left custom St marys on its delivery run to Randwick depot appears to have gone via M4 and Mamre Road.

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Re: STA Observations 2019

Postby Frosty » Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:32 pm

CityRail wrote:Due to high amount of patronage, Free Bus 22T4 operated this weekend with Articulated Buses.
As the result, some free 333 services were operated using rigid bus only.


I would've thought other depots that have substantial bendy fleets could've operated 22T4. This weekend with STA doing rail replacement 60T8 & 62T8 any chance of bendy buses ?

Had weird scenario yesterday an empty not in service bendy bus showed up at Green Square then driver changed the desto proceed with a 309 to Railway Square was 3mins late at Green Square. Trip appeared to be partially cancelled suffice to say I was probably the only passenger to be onboard between Green Square and Central.
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