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NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Postby rogf24 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:21 am

New NSW Government announcement on high speed rail. New website on the plan. https://www.nsw.gov.au/improving-nsw/pr ... e-for-nsw/

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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Postby tonyp » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:15 am

Admin: No need to quote previous post in full
Oh no, not another UK expert! From the country that brought you the APT.

I hope they keep an open mind to medium speed rail which addresses a lot of the issues and where implementation is more realistic. Better to have an actual train than tons of reports and no train.
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Postby swtt » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:08 am

I think this is meant to be medium speed rail, in the 100-200km/h range.

Seriously though, through the Blue Mountains to Orange?

Official press release:

https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/news-a ... -australia
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Postby rogf24 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:22 am

They're taking an incremental approach. Medium speed up to 200km/h firstly and then high speed over 250km/h.

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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Postby Linto63 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:10 am

Is there an election shortly? The whole thing will have dropped off the radar by April. But not before a few up the pointy end 'fact finding missions' have been enjoyed.

tonyp wrote:Oh no, not another UK expert! From the country that brought you the APT.
But they did come up with the HST, which after a bit of work to suit our inferior infrastructure, has served us well as the XPT for nearly 40 years.
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Postby gilberations » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:34 am

America is doing it, that’s why they’re doing it now too
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Postby tonyp » Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:13 pm

We might get one of these though:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10cXpd8haQQ
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Postby ScaniaGrenda » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:26 pm

Eh, I don't know to be honest, half of me wants to see it because I may be able to travel down to Sydney more often on my free time and not worry about time as much if the timetables are right, the other half definitely says it's an election stunt and "don't get your hopes up". I guess I'm going with the "don't get your hopes up" approach for now. Until boots are on the ground and there's solid evidence that work on High speed rail is happening I really can't take any of this.

But If this was to come it'll work like an XPT / Express service wouldn't it? I'd take it you'd need to pre-book a seat or something like that correct?
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Postby Transtopic » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:24 pm

Medium Speed Rail would be a worthy and more realistic goal and hopefully the new regional train fleet will be able to meet this need with services up to 200km/h on upgraded track. On the other hand, true High Speed Rail is a long way off and could only be considered "aspirational". The schematic route diagrams seem to indicate a South Coast route to Wollongong and Nowra via the South Line. I wonder if they would take the opportunity to extend the SC line across the river to the Nowra CBD with perhaps provision to extend it further south in the longer term? Your thoughts tonyp.
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Postby Swift » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:43 pm

It's the NGH for the foreseeable future. Not Gonna Happen.
Political pressure hasn't gained enough momentum yet. With the way Sydney is being force fed immigrants by the feds, this pressure should reach this point quite quickly for decentralisation which only HSR can enable.
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Postby neilrex » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:12 pm

"Consultants have identified 4 possible routes"..... insightful geniuses, those consultants.
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Postby Daniel » Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:39 am

neilrex wrote:"Consultants have identified 4 possible routes"..... insightful geniuses, those consultants.

I don’t get it?
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Postby Swift » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:06 pm

^I take it to mean that any man off the street could do the same thing!
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Postby boronia » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:48 pm

neilrex wrote:"Consultants have identified 4 possible routes"..... insightful geniuses, those consultants.


They've stuck some pins into a Google map, with some obvious, and doubtful, places identified. Not exactly a "route"?
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Postby boronia » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:50 pm

Gladys was on Ch 10 news explaining how they would start by doing a bit of realigning to speed up existing services.

YAWN
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Postby neilrex » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:28 pm

Daniel wrote:
neilrex wrote:"Consultants have identified 4 possible routes"..... insightful geniuses, those consultants.

I don’t get it?


Well Newcastle, Wollongong, Orange and Canberra. It's not exactly rocket surgery, is it ? It's the places the trains already go. Where the people are.
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Postby neilrex » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:29 pm

boronia wrote:Gladys was on Ch 10 news explaining how they would start by doing a bit of realigning to speed up existing services.

YAWN


Hard to see where.

The only place that it seems to be, it would be simple, is the unreasonably slow section from Dora Creek to about Teralba.
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Postby tonyp » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:57 pm

The curves south of Waterfall are an obvious starting point, but there are also other relevant issues on the south coast like signalling, duplication, level crossings etc.

The reaction in Nowra funnily enough is fear of the end the rural lifestyle and the conversion of Nowra into Waterloo! Frankly medium-speed rail - a journey of less than two hours - would be great on its own. When you live down here, Wollongong is the city that provides everything, except the really major medical stuff and of course employment. More of those two needs might gravitate down to Wollongong if the transport was significantly faster, but not necessarily high speed. Wollongong is the closest major relief valve to Sydney, if only they'd improve the rail. The problem is the political contempt with which it is treated by both sides, with the result that nothing gets done.
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Postby Frosty » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:54 pm

tonyp wrote:The curves south of Waterfall are an obvious starting point, but there are also other relevant issues on the south coast like signalling, duplication, level crossings etc.



Wouldn't works in the Sydney area also be necessary such as adding additional tracks between Sutherland & Hurstville to ease capacity constraints and maybe changes at Wolli Creek.
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Postby flitter » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:33 pm

neilrex wrote:
boronia wrote:Gladys was on Ch 10 news explaining how they would start by doing a bit of realigning to speed up existing services.

YAWN


Hard to see where.


Remove the unreasonably curvy bits around the Hawkesbury, lower blue mountains, Camden, and Helensburgh for a start. Then skip any station served by a suburban or outer suburban service. Should get you the times...
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Postby Swift » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:08 pm

flitter wrote:
Remove the unreasonably curvy bits around the Hawkesbury, lower blue mountains, Camden, and Helensburgh for a start. Then skip any station served by a suburban or outer suburban service. Should get you the times...

It would certainly be a start and cost pennies compared to HSR!! Work on what you've got, before spending on lavish projects, but then again, there isn't enough fanfare with that is there?
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Postby Transtopic » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:41 pm

Swift wrote:
flitter wrote:
Remove the unreasonably curvy bits around the Hawkesbury, lower blue mountains, Camden, and Helensburgh for a start. Then skip any station served by a suburban or outer suburban service. Should get you the times...

It would certainly be a start and cost pennies compared to HSR!! Work on what you've got, before spending on lavish projects, but then again, there isn't enough fanfare with that is there?
Yes unfortunately, a nuts and bolts upgrade to the existing network doesn't have quite the same ring as a shiny new metro line or high speed rail line. But to the uninitiated, this doesn't cut through. Look at the experience in Victoria, where the Andrews' Labor government's focus has been on a program of level crossing removal, which is a nuts and bolts issue, and it has received widespread support through its implementation. Its proposed extension of the existing network through the CBD has also received widespread support, while maintaining a compatible rail network, unlike NSW's obsession with introducing a privatised incompatible metro system.
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Postby mandonov » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:23 pm

If you actually read what's been announced then you'll see that the aim is for a 'nuts and bolts' targeted upgrade first, to then be transitioned to a full blown HSR.
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Postby Swift » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:52 pm

mandonov wrote:If you actually read what's been announced then you'll see that the aim is for a 'nuts and bolts' targeted upgrade first, to then be transitioned to a full blown HSR.

How meaningful is this announcement though? Another one that will dry up and blow away in the wind like the proverbial dog s%%t?
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Re: NSW High Speed Rail... Again

Postby mandonov » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:17 am

Swift wrote:How meaningful is this announcement though? Another one that will dry up and blow away in the wind like the proverbial dog s%%t?

Maybe, maybe not. With Labor a shoe in federally Mr. HSR himself Anthony Albanese will finally get his High Speed Rail Authority, and whether it be Lib or Lab in NSW there's an appetite for gaining votes in the regions with something big.

For what it's worth, the man they've brought on to head the investigation is the real deal. I know we like to bag on TfNSW's obsession with the British, but his work on HS2 in the UK has been instrumental in that country getting the project to where it is today.

Either way, we'll know by March.
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